Europa Universalis IV

Yes, Londoner decide to leave Great Britain due to lack of control of India.

Pretty much magic bullshit.

 

If your capital is revolting due to expansion, you have lots of other problems as well.

 

Happens all the time when sitting at -3 stability due to events and conquering foreign land with a different religion. Double whammy of religious unity (why the fuck are people in London revolting because people in India aren't christain?) and OE making your entire empire have revolt risk.

 

-3 stability and too much OE and having your nation set up in a way that the lack of religious unity becomes a problem. If this is actually comes up often for you than that means that you have no fucking idea how EU IV actually works and should better stop posting about it and learn to play.

 

Well he has a point, rebels arent represented well in Paradox games. In Victoria we have gigantic Jacobin uprisings, in HoI we have random one province rebellions, in CK2 we have a similar situation to EU. At least they added causes and demands for rebels now.

 

No, that's actually the correct way to play. Do you know how to play EU4?

 

Yeah, rebellions could use a lot of work. But that is not what Average Manatee is saying. He does not complain about the rebel system itself, about numbers and threat, but about hoe cores and rebels are connected which somehow for him invalidates the entire game.

 

Plenty of things invalidate the game. No need to single out rebels.

 

Thats like your opinion man. For me its the best title of the series and the best Paradox game, at least as far as number of hours invested goes.

 

so i guess its still WIP then?

 

Well it's not much of a mod, the Swedish culture flipping thing is a single event file that just defines when it happens, and I haven't managed to figure out how EU4 localization files work at all. I haven't done that much. One idea that I had bouncing around my head today, having finished a Sweden campaign with Res Publica, is that I could put in a triggered modifier hard limit on the number of colonial subjects each nation can have, as well as a continental limit trigger (meaning, if Spain colonizes in South America, Mexico, Caribbean, and Africa, their number of colonists will drop to negative; additionally a -100 colonists and -10000 colonial growth trigger for anyone who isn't East European coming from inland or Asian/Native American colonizing even an inch of Siberia).

 

Well, I have some free time while I wait for my new computer to get all its parts delivered. The constant refrain if you complain about Paradox ruining EU4 is to mod it so I figured I'd go crazy. I'm making a totally new map with over 7000 provinces, the better to stretch my new computer. There are 5 large inland seas about mid way on average between the med and the baltic in a large squishy circle shaped main continent. This contains maybe 4k-5k provinces, all pretty simply in shape. The two largest island packed inland seas will contain many nations around them with one nation being the last remnant of a society which covered their entire coast plus a decent bit of land along the coasts of where they merged with the oceans. The other seas will contain 3, 4, 5 large existing powers fighting it out. With or without islands the seas allow nations to have a large empire around the sea, with the sea serving as fast transit. There will be a large landlocked empire, which will be the largest currently existing nation. These nations should cover about 2000 of the provinces. The rest will be medium to small states, maybe a few hordes. Another 1000 provinces will be part of an archipelago with 2 large nations fighting over it, one of each from 2 large bracketing landmasses of maybe 300 provinces each with the smaller islands worth 400 total. There will be a large mostly uncolonized landmass, maybe 1000 provinces, on the east of the north- south archipelago and west of one of the ancient empire ruled large inland seas of the main landmass. There may be a few native nations as well as a medium sized but very weak off shoot of the ancient empire. The empire remnant and its neighbors plus the 2 major arch nations and a 100 province medium sized central arch nation will generally be competing to colonize this land. Each will make decisions on whether to focus here or their other spheres of warfare. The remnant and the offshoot will ally but neither will be able to much aid each other for a good period of time.

The remaining 3000 will be spread across the main continent and some smaller archipelagos as well as 4 medium size Britain-esque islands which may attempt to interfere with main continent politics. They will of course not function precisely as England did but each will probably contain a part of England. One will be fight a dynastic war with a large mainland power, one will attempt to control large stretches of mainland coast and one will at least at first attempt to gain control of the smaller archipelagos, one will attempt to control the islands of the 3rd largest main continent inland sea, one will go after the uncolonized continent and dabble in the larger archipelago.

Ideally the mainland will be so large that even without Johan's stupid WC nerfs, trying to control more than 30% of it will be quite difficult. With 3000-4000 provinces it is larger than all of the base EU4 map combined and there is a France+Russia level major power of the possibility of 2 Roman Empire like powers, providing a good amount of endgame and also allowing you to be curtailed by normal alliances rather than having to make a coalition form. The AE level should be such that only a really huge landgrab will spawn a continent wide coalition. And there will be many major theaters for expansion which will make AE tick up even slower. I will probably slightly nerf decay so that there are more long running feuds once you actually spike AE with a given nation to a truly scary level.

Will post here how a few games end up working out. Probs won't make it downloadable unless its really, really fun.

 

A sort of Uber endgame with colonial area left?

Good luck, its gonna suck. You picked the worst aspects of this game to play around with.

 

Well, if you start with a major power, you'll probably not have the best time if you min max it. But if you start with a medium power or even a minor one it should be interesting. Its a lot freer of constraints than vanilla, no HRE, no France Burgundy England Castile war covering 80% of the western half of the continent, maybe 10% of the continent is enough to make a similar situation so that you still have other options. Also there are no techs, so no part of the world is massively nerfed at the start thus giving a lot more viable nations who can expand to multiple areas, and way more freedom to vassalize. Colonies will not be CNs if I can avoid that. The original colony mechanic although not ideal is much preferable. Plus by the time the map is done the new expansion will be out so you can play with all those features.

 

If coring in Eu4 does indeed mean set up admnistration and claims, non cored provinces mean an empires effort to maintain control of places not unlike XIX th century balkans. It does not seem entirely unrealistic that other groups across empires would.feel like it is the time to strike. It often happened in Spain.

 

Well, 220 provinces on the province map and the main continent and inland seas drawn. Takes me about 5 minutes to do 20 provinces since obsessive attention to historical detail is irrelevant in an alt history map. 250 provinces an hour puts me about 7 hours from 2000 provinces drawn on the map. I can only imagine how horrible actually making the province files will be. And all those countries. 4000 provinces - 400 - 100 - 100 - 50 - 50 - 50 - 50 - 50 - 50 - 50 - 50 covers the giant central nation plus the 2 empire remnants plus the major states that split from those remnants and is only 1000 provinces covered by 11 nations. So I'll have at least another 189 nations on the main continent alone. Not to mention the no longer extant nations so you can split off vassals and shit.

 

Huge Dev diary

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Eu4 - Art of War - Development Diary 1 - Fleets, Autonomy & India
Welcome to the first development diary for Art of War, the third major expansion for Europa Universalis IV. To start off, we’ll focus on how the expansion will change you naval management, and get into some detail about the new concept of “local autonomy”.

We’re also happy to announce that we are adding a lot of new nations and provinces to the the game, mostly to make sure that the rest of the world gets the same attention to historical detail that we’ve spent on making Europe look right. But don’t worry; we are making sure that the game runs as quick as it does in the version you have now. Today, we will talk about the changes coming to India.

Upgrading Fleets
Building a fleet is a lot of fun, but can sometimes feel like a chore, especially when you have 30 Early Carracks and everyone else is cruising around in the latest two-decker technology. In Art of War, we are aiming to make it easier to keep you fleets up to date. The fleet menu now has a button that allows you upgrade the entire fleet to more modern ships of the same type.

How much will this shiny new option cost? The same amount of money as building a new fleet in that location would, and putting each ship at 0% strength for a while. This is best used as a peacetime action in a province that is dedicated to building ships (to keep the cost down.) This is not a strictly historical idea, of course; it’s easier to give an infantryman new weapons than it is to refit a warship. But we want to ease some of the micromanagement of navies that we thought took away from the more enjoyable parts of the game.

Mothballing Fleets
If you have been playing the game for a while, you will notice a lack of fine control over your fleets. Your main warfleet is expensive and not always needed, whereas your trade fleet and pirate hunters are usually indispensable. As it stands now, your only funding choices are all or nothing; to keep your frigates and merchantmen at full power you need to have your ships-of-the-line sucking cash, too.

No longer.

Each individual fleet can be now be mothballed (or not) while at port. While mothballed, they lose 5% strength each month, down to 25% minimum. They do not repair while mothballed, nor can they move out of port. A mothballed fleet always costs as if the maintenance slider is at 0. At any point in time, you can always toggle a fleet back from its mothball status, but, if they have been mothballed for a while, it will take quite some time until they are fully repaired.

Local Autonomy
Each province now has a variable called “local autonomy”, which ranges from 0 to 100%. This represents how freely the province operates from central authority; i.e., how much direct control you have over what is happening there. This is an inverse value, so the higher it is, the worse it generally is for you income wise, but the population will be happier. If a province’s local autonomy is at 100%, it basically provide nothing valuable to the owner of the the province, economically speaking. Mind you, fewer rebellions could be of economic value in the short term.

Specifcally, Local Autonomy will have an effect on your trade power, tax income, production, manpower, missionary work and recruitment/shipbuilding times. It is something that you will need to pay attention to from time to time, especially in those provinces that are the centers of your wealth and manpower.

Every 30 years, you can directly increase or decrease the autonomy of a province. Increasing it will give the province -10 unrest or 30 years, and adding +25% autonomy. Decreasing local autonomy adds 10 unrest and removes 25% autonomy. (What is unrest, you may ask? It’s a replacement for revolt risk, but we’ll talk about that in more detail next week!)

If you are at peace, autonomy decreases by about 1 point per year, with more advanced forms of governments decreasing it far more quickly. An occupied province slowly increases its autonomy by 1 per year, so long bitter wars are not entirely ideal, even if you may recover your lands.

Conquering a non-core province adds +50% autonomy to that province, while having a claim reduces the impact to 40%. It will take time to establish a firm foothold on newly taken lands.

Local autonomy lets us change some things in the main game to avoid some weirdness. For example, we removed the overseas penalties, and instead an overseas province can never be below 50% autonomy. This, we think, captures the economic problems of managing large overseas empires better than a penalty based on map location, which did not always make sense.

Also, the Ming have been changed a fair bit as well. Its government penalties have been reduced (they weren’t much fun to fight against and forced certain strategies), but instead the Celestial Empire means that a province can never be below 50% autonomy. And hordes can never reduce autonomy below 25%. These changes, we think, enhance the historical flavor.



India
Now I give the word over to Trin Tragula, who was the main man behind the changes in India.

As it stands now, India in EU4 has 77 provinces. These had mostly been drawn to facilitate the many border changes that took place between 1444 and 1820. They were a convenience more than anything else.

After the overhaul in Art of War, India is made up of 153 provinces. This has added a considerable level of detail to the subcontinent and, much like in Europe, you'll now see a higher province density in richer areas especially. The Indian tax and manpower base has also been boosted a bit to compensate for the added amount of provinces.
As you can imagine, this means both that there is a whole lot more to do for the tags in the area themselves and there can be more historical competition for the ports of the region. It also means the region is more differentiated. You can more clearly tell which areas are rich and which are poor. Along the way some changes have been made to the general setup as well as some new additions in the form of tags, cultures, etc.

Easiest way to see the changes is probably a tour of the new map region by region. So here's a short overview of the area and what's going on in 1444:

Delhi and Jaunpur, the Indo-Gangetic Plain:



The Indo-Gangetic plain is really the heart of northern India. This is one of the most densely populated regions in the world and was the centre of all the great northern Empires of India.
Apart from dividing up the plain itself into many provinces due to its high population, the overhaul has allowed us to pay better attention to the various minor states that border it here and there.

Overview of the area in 1444:
Once the overlord of all Muslim Indian states, the Sultanate of Delhi is crumbling in 1444. While the last ruler of the Sayid dynasty is hiding in his palace, the neighboring state of Jaunpur, itself a former possession of the Sultanate under its last dynasty, has advanced up the Ganges and now borders the city itself in the east.
In the west a local Afghan strongman named Bahlul Lodi is massing an army to march on the capital* after having made a base for himself in the Punjab.

New Tags:

• Patiala, a minor western Punjabi state that, much like Punjab itself, is a revolter in 1444.
• Baghelkhand: Minor kingdom at the border of the northern plains and the tribal hills to the south.
• Rohilkhand: A state founded by Afghan military colonists in the traditionally unruly Katehar hills in the north. Historically this small state would take an active part in carving up the lands of the Mughal Empire once it crumbled.
• Garhwal: A minor Rajput kingdom on the slopes of the Himalayas. Fiercely independent, one of its queens earned her nickname from taking of the noses of would be invaders.

*Historically Bahlul Lodhi was content to make the last of the Sayids his puppet for a while. Then he attacked again and took the throne for himself. He then proceeded to reinvigorate the Sultanate and reclaim much of what was once lost.

Bengal, Bihar and Assam:

The eastern parts of the Ganges and its delta are much like the central region: a highly populated and rich area both in terms of agriculture and trade. Controlling this territory is, therefore, essential for any great northern Indian empire. Over the centuries, however, it proved to be harder than holding on to the rich central areas of the river plain.

In 1444 this region is dominated by the Bengal Sultanate under the Ilyas Shahis, while, in the northeast, the Ahom kingdom of Assam is slowly expanding in the Brahmaputra valley, annexing and integrating the various kingdoms and tribal populations in the area through its process of Ahomization.

New Tags:

• Sadiya: Along with the Kachari kingdom this is the last remains of the older culture of the area before the arrival of the Ahoms.
• Tirhut: Northern Bihar is still under Hindu rule in 1444 and continued to thrive for another 100 years before succumbing to the Muslim states that surround it.
• Manipur: At a crossroad between India and Burma lies the valley kingdom of Manipur. In 1444 this is still an animist state and will remain so until the 18th century when Hinduism is promoted by royal decree.
• Tripura: Another small kingdom in the mountains separating India and Burma.

Rajputana, Gujarat, Sindh and Malwa:

Notoriously divided and prone to conflict, the region of Rajputana is now a region of larger minor states rather than just a few one-province minors (amazing what you can do with more province!). The richer areas of Gujarat and Malwa are now more divided and Malwa has also gotten a culture of its own to distinguish it from the Rajput provinces to its north.
In 1444 the kingdom of Mewar is the dominant power in Rajputana, despite being surrounded by vengeful Sultanates to its east, west and south however the kingdom is focused on the neighboring state of Marwar. A period of joint rule and very close cooperation has just ended very badly between the two states with intrigues, murder and treason leading to the total annexation of Marwar as retribution. As the game starts the claimant to the Marwari throne is roaming the countryside with the remains of his army*.

New Tags:

• Nagaur: While the Muslim kingdoms in India are generally the dominant ones Nagaur is the exception. This small Sultanate lies precariously surrounded on all sides by Hindu Rajput states, ruling only a swath of desert.
• Hadoti: The Hadoti region is home to the kingdoms of Kota and Bundi, a vassal of the dominant Mewar state in 1444.
• Rewa Kantha: Small kingdom in the hills between Malwa and Gujarat based around the great fortress of Champaner.

*And would continue to do so for several years until he managed to retake the area. Relations between the two states would take a very long time to recover and for much of the history of Rajputana they are to be considered the main rival powers of the region.

Central Indic Tribal Region:

The region between Malwa and the eastern coast is characterized by hills, jungles and many tribal kingdoms. It was quite possibly one of the most abstracted regions in the pre-AoW map, and, while it hasn't received as many provinces as some other parts of India (due to being both poor and relatively lightly populated), care has been taken to make it a bit different from the other Indian regions.

The states in this part of India all use a new government type called Tribal Kingdom (which is a less expansion-oriented form of tribal government). New cultures have been added to better cover the diversity in the region and they also get a new National Idea group relating to tribal religion and customs.

New Tags:

• Chanda: Small Gond kingdom east of Bastar.
• Jharkhand: A tag that represents the many minor states in the jungles south of Bihar such as the Nagas of Kokrah or the Raksels of Surguja.

Deccan:

In 1444 the Deccan is defined by the tripartite struggle between Orissa, the Bahmani Sultanate and the Vijayanagara empire.

As the game starts the Gajapatis of Orissa have just managed to expand deep into Vijayanagara territory and entrenched themselves there. Nonetheless, the Orissan state itself is by far the weakest of the three and the areas they now hold in this region are a long way from the Orissan power base in north-eastern India.

Dependent on the arrival of outside goods and immigration, the cosmopolitan Bahmani state is desperate to regain the coastal areas it lost to Viyanagar some 60 years before.While large and seemingly stable the Vijayanagara empire has grown a lot over the last 80 years and straddles a diverse area of cultures, terrains and climates.

New Tags:

• Baglana: Small Rajput kingdom at the border of Gujarat, Malwa and Bahmani. Tried to play its neighbors against each other but was more often than not the vassal of one (or two) of its neighbors.
• Habsan: Small naval oriented state created by freed Muslim Ethiopian slaves. Its capital is the impregnable island fortress of Janjira.

Southern India:

Covered almost entirely by the Vijayanagara empire on this picture, the southern part of India is far more diverse in itself than the northern regions above. The dry Telugu and Kannada uplands that are the base of recruitment for the Vijayanagara state are actually a comparatively small part of the empire by now. Having lost its eastern ports to Orissa the main source of income for the empire is instead the lush Tamil region in the far south.

When revising the provinces in this region, one of our goals was been to create a sensible setup not only for Vijayanagara, but also for its various regional revolter states that can appear here. The southern coast is also a very rich region and one that consequently drew the most attention of the European imperial powers, almost all of home had a settlement or factory in the region.

In game terms, the main difference in the political setup in 1444 from before AoW is that we now have an independent state in Mysore under the Ummatur chiefs and the inclusion of the obscure last remains of the ancient Pandya dynasty clinging on in Tirunelvelli in the extreme south of India.

New Tags:

• Jaffna: Small Tamil kingdom on the northern part of Sri Lanka under Vijayanagara protection.

Himalayas:


Last but not least there have been changes to the Himalayas too. The old Kashmir province was huge, and has now been broken up into some more provinces. The new tag of Ladakh (often refered to as "Little Tibet") has been added and it starts out controlling Ladakh and Baltistan in the north where India borders the Tarim basin, Afghanistan and Tibet.

Trade Flow:

With this many new provinces a new trade node setup was more or less necessary in itself. The new setup has the added benefit of portraying the trade links of the subcontinent a lot better than the old one did. The Indian interior (the Doab node here) nicely incorporates the grand trunk road into the game, while the southern coasts are divided into the historical zones of competition for more distant traders.

 

I'm starting to suspect Johan and guys eat too much curry.

 

Blasphemy, there's never "too much" curry.

 

Was there any indication this overhaul is limited to India? Because South America and Africa are also pretty silly.

 

Pretty sure it will be limited to that, there must be some room left for further DLCs, asia, nomads . Even in america dlc aztec and inca were completely forgotten with no hope for success while natives could instant tech jumps.

Also its worth checking that fantasy mod , must be real fun in multiplayer:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=298668691&searchtext=


Add mythical continents to the map, events, religions and stuff.

 

I really hope they do a South American DLC, or one that includes an overhaul. Though we don't know as much as we'd like about Pre-European times, the history is still pretty rich. Even the inevitable Spanish(or colonial) conquests could be expanded upon by leveraging civil wars, making allying some portion of the natives a prerequisite to fast conquest, maybe by implementing an auxiliary recruitment/mercenary system. They could give the Inca a guerrilla warfare element if conquered, like in Hearts of Iron, etc.

Eh, won't happen though.

 

I'm more surprised actually that India gets so much DLC work before the ones that would seem more obvious in terms of "how to sell shit", Japan and China.

 

With the current colonization system in place it's kinda moot.

 

Yea they need to do something to the colonization system. For one thing, West Europeans simply shouldn't be allowed to colonize Siberia by sea, and at some point Portuguese and Spanish should simply not be able to obtain more colonies at all. American colonies in general will need heightened drive for autonomy or independence as time goes by, I've never seen a colonial subject rebel after the new colonial nations (cool feature in itself).