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Expeditions: Conquistador Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Expeditions' started by Jaedar, Aug 4, 2012.

  1. Avonaeon Logic Artists Developer

    Avonaeon
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    We now have an agreement with Desura which will provide DRM-Free standalone clients to everyone who's pledged $15 or more once funded. We'll keep working on getting it out on more platforms as we go along though, so stay tuned.
     
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  2. asper Cipher

    asper
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    Wait with the praise until the games are at least released. So far we have only promises.
     
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  3. CarnivalBizarre Augur

    CarnivalBizarre
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    Yeah, totally aware of that. But promises is more than we have had since the 90s so at least someone is thinking there is a market again. But on the codex you take the negative route of course.
    :mob:
     
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  4. J1M Arcane

    J1M
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    Somebody needs to read the chapter in Carnage and Culture about Cortes. I'm sure Cortes was a p. cool dude, but the reason he found so many native allies so easily was because of the Aztecs.
     
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  5. Quetzacoatl Liturgist

    Quetzacoatl
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    J1M,the Aztecs were disliked for political reasons. The Aztecs weren't the only ones to do human sacrificing and westerners like you need to stop defending the conquest.
     
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  6. Kosmonaut Lost in Space

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    Fuck both the aztecs and the spaniards.
     
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  7. Quetzacoatl Liturgist

    Quetzacoatl
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    FIXED
     
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  8. J1M Arcane

    J1M
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    It is disingenuous to refer to the extracting of a tithe from the surrounding tribes of 20,000 human sacrifices each year as 'political reasons'.

    That's the low estimate given by Zumarraga. Ixlilxochitl pegs it even higher: one in five children each year.

    EDIT: And why shouldn't the conquest be defended? The mexican tribes were quite happy conquering each other. Had they been capable of building a boat larger than a canoe and had access to SCIENCE! they would have been quite happy to conquer Spain.
     
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  9. Santander02 Arcane

    Santander02
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    I think the same thing as well, and it seems to me that the Aztecs in particular were more sanguinary than most other cultures of the Americas, as far I know not even the other great American empire of that time, the Incas, engaged in warfare and sacrifices to the same extent as the Aztecs did, (ie the "Templo Mayor" in Tenochtitlan had around 60 000 skulls taken from sacrifices, while most Incan sacrificial tombs had just around 20 bodies or so) in any case the Spanish would never have had success in either conquest without the help from the natives that were dissatisfied with their current overlords.
     
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  10. Quetzacoatl Liturgist

    Quetzacoatl
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    The Flower Wars were waged under the consent of both parties. The political purpose was likely to weaken them in the long run. Don't use the account of extremely biased Christians that weren't there to support your "numbers".

    This is a fallacy:http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/two-wrongs-make-a-right.html
     
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  11. Kosmonaut Lost in Space

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    No, the Flower Wars were waged by the expressed purpose of getting prisoners for human sacrifice. Your New Age infatuation with aztec culture is ridiculous.
     
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  12. Quetzacoatl Liturgist

    Quetzacoatl
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    That too. But it was certainly political as well. What New Age infatuation? I larp and defend the Aztecs from westerners that have some hollywood notion about them. I have a greater infatuation with German culture and should this account and the backup alt get banned the third will have a very German theme.
     
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  13. J1M Arcane

    J1M
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    1) We aren't talking about the flower wars. We are talking about human sacrifices. Oh yeah, and if you were paying attention you would have noticed the low estimate was given by the Spanish bishop, and the high estimate by the historian who was the great grandson of the Aztec king. Using your logic we should throw out the low numbers. :lol:

    2) It isn't "two wrongs make a right". It's "Hey, this civilization and the statu quo was so fucking horrible that all of their neighbors sided with some invaders just to get rid of them. Therefore, you are not going to convince anyone that it was a bad idea with a morality argument, you dumbfuck."

    3) I hate the way people of your political disposition pretend like you are advocating from some bullshit moral high ground. What you are really providing are such egregious distortions of the truth to support your position that anyone with all of the facts and a hint of morality or intelligence is disgusted. When people of other dispositions are confronted with this type of situation they admit they were wrong and change their position instead of further entrenching themselves by inventing new deceptions.
     
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  14. Quetzacoatl Liturgist

    Quetzacoatl
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    So fucking what if he was the grandson of the Aztec fucking king. He was still Christian and his work was pervaded with bias. If the son of a WW2 vet claimed his father killed 100 Germans his words aren't going to reliable because of blood relation. The "low" estimates are not anymore reliable than the "high" estimates. Oh look I can make a smiley too!:lol:
    Only their neighbors also sacrificed people yah dumbfuck! They hated the Aztecs just like they would if any other group rose to prominence and power. The Flower Wars were the means by which the Aztecs took in sacrificial captives that weren't shit slaves or volunteers. So to talk about human sacrifice you'd inevitably have to talk about the Flower Wars.
    Fuck you, stop whining you child and understand that you have a Hollywoodian idea of the Aztecs. Who this comment should be directed towards are those that deny the Aztecs ever sacrificed anyone in the first place.
     
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  15. J1M Arcane

    J1M
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    We know others also sacrificed people. It doesn't help your argument.

    If you have more accurate numbers on human sacrifices, share them. Otherwise rational people like myself will continue to accept the numbers presented by historians as a valid range.

    I don't know where you get the idea that this position was provided to me by hollywood. If anything, my impressions of the Aztecs were way more pedestrian before learning about them. At most I thought they killed something like 400 people a year before reading Carnage and Culture.
     
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  16. Quetzacoatl Liturgist

    Quetzacoatl
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    It helps my claim that hatred of the Aztecs was political in nature and not because they practiced human sacrfice
    I don't pretend to have some concrete number on the amount sacrificed. I do however know that your sources are not reliable at all and their numbers shouldn't be trusted.
    This is less your fault and more about the extremely fucking annoying trend of people believing even the most ridiculous numbers I always see. Sorry if I lumped you with the rest.
     
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  17. OldSkoolKamikaze Arcane Patron

    OldSkoolKamikaze
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    Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Montezuma is a dick. If I ever start near him, he's the first to get taken out.
     
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  18. Quetzacoatl Liturgist

    Quetzacoatl
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    Rock to the face or swords through the chest?
     
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  19. Cassidy Arcane

    Cassidy
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    I think this explains a lot.
     
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  20. Commissar Draco Codexia Comrade Colonel Commissar Patron

    Commissar Draco
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    Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
    This or you can believe the Stormfront Science! that Each Spanish Aryan Ubermensh was able to defeat 100 Indians. Libruls really are pushing luck defending Aztecs, even according to their standarts.

    And Someone whose ''godhood'' Cortez have taken is indeed more butthurt than Varnaa about Russians... :lol:
     
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  21. Quetzacoatl Liturgist

    Quetzacoatl
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    The sacrifices in Templo Mayor were accumulated from continuous conflict with their neighbors. Said sacrificial offerings to the gods were prisoners of wars taken in the flower wars. Oh look standard librul bitching. Instead of debating me or my points you stand in the sidelines screaming "Stupid Liberals!". Fucking laughable.
    It explains nothing my avatar or username wouldn't have.
     
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  22. kaizoku Arcane

    kaizoku
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    so much butthurt yapping

    it's an RPG. let the player carve his own path.
    at least that is what I'm wishing for the game to allow
     
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  23. Kosmonaut Lost in Space

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    I whish I could understand what the fuck are you trying to say. Whenever I read one or your post I have a hard time getting it. The only thing that I can grasp, and the perennial theme in your posts is the usual butthurt about librulz and atheists.
     
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  24. Johannes Arcane

    Johannes
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    You're forgetting negros and mudslims.
     
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  25. Deakul Savant

    Deakul
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    I hope to God that this gets made, this is my dream game.
    Been wanting a game where you control conquistadors as they make their way into the New World and own ass since forever.
     
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