Experience and character skill progression is pointless.

[a Goat]

Why the fuck do we even have this shit at all? Just pick your party and build it right, then mow through content. OH BOY BUT I LOVE PLAYING ON LOW LEVELS MISS MISS MISS MISS CRIT TAKES WHOLE PARTY WAHAHAA LOOVE IT.

No but seriously - the problems with controlling player's progression etc. etc. can be all thrown out of window if you just let him build his party(let's say you'll balance around level 13 in D&D because dunno) freely and then force him to deal with it. It solves the problem of early game being frustrating and lategame being cakewalk. All the progression you'll need can be done via equipment.

 

[Sacred82]

midgame is where it's at anyway boyo. Just don't make the early game too much of a drag. Late game content is for plowing through (if you even want to bother with that).

The whole power progression thing IS why we play RPG's. Do you think I'm going through combat after combat just to read more of your highbrow story?

 

[a Goat]

I'm going through combat after combat just to read more of your highbrow story?

Yes

 

[Molina]

Progression is pointless. Story is pointless.
Hmm. Ok.

Play Bayonetta ?

 

[The Wall]

You're just old and tired and crave rest. Clickin on lvl up is soooooo hard these days. As is clickin on skill lvl up. As is thinkin which skill to lvl up. As is thinkin..

Here, your brain is dehydrated:

Boomer's int. potion

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Bad title, good argument.
It's too easy to make most modern RPGs have trivial difficulty even at the highest difficulty. In recent memory, patchfinder bugmaker is a notable outlier from this mostly due to how difficult the highest difficulties are.

 

[The Great ThunThun*]

You are confounding the problems specific to D&D with progression in general. Progression is a core element of power fantasy which is intrinsic to the structure of an RPG. While there can be adventures where you have no progression, having it gives the player the added experience of man vs Challenge.

 

[a Goat]

Progression is pointless. Story is pointless.
Hmm. Ok.

Play Bayonetta ?

Hear combat, think action game, the absolute state of codex

 

[Molina]

Progression is pointless. Story is pointless.
Hmm. Ok.

Play Bayonetta ?

Hear combat, think action game, the absolute state of codex

Well, you can try RTS, Xcom (but there is a progression system :/), Desperados, Commandos, Compagny of Heroes.. All famous RPG.

 

[The Wall]

I truly believe that everyone on Codex is female, including me. How? Proof? This and countless other threads.

Because only that can explain logical clusterfuck where at the same time you want mechanically deep, engaging and fun RPGs and for them to play like Lords Mobile.

I also feel sometimes similar like OP. What's the purpouse of these little numbers that go up or down, why can't just, like I dunno, all these enemies die, on a press of button, on a click, on a look, on a thought, on my whim. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck you devs, why the fuck are you dumbin down muh arr pee poo Gs!!!

OP, Codex, me - do we even know what we truly want from RPGs and life? Maybe we should sometimes switch genre, go hop and dragon's head plop in the mountains of Skyrim and then return to RPGs. It's fine, we'll watch each other's back and won't post screenshots of our Steam playtime. Sometimes we just need a genre brake because what you're asking here is basically: Can I have my cheesecake taste like fried chicken?

 

[The Wall]

TLDR: Bruh, go play Sekiro until you grow hungry of RPG spreadsheets again

 

[Safav Hamon]

Too much progression diminishes the fun in character creation.

I'm also bored of the typical power curve where you go from dying to wolves at level 1 to being an epic dragon slayer at level 50. There's rarely any middleground.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

To clarify, are you talking about all forms of "leveling?" No feats/perks/talents or ability increases? Or are you just against the general principle of gaining generalized increases at certain experience thresholds? If it's the general increase, I am in agreement. There are many RPGs that use experience as a point buy for improved abilities and perks, like Deadlands. Your health more or less stays static, but your skills improve only as you deliberately increase them. These kinds of systems are fantastic.

 

[Incendax]

Struggling for scraps. Then fighting your equals. Finally crushing foes you struggled with before?
Not every game should use this formula, but it’s a formula many people absolutely love.

 

[The Wall]

Ok, after careful re-reading of OP for three times, I honestly have no idea what's the argument here

You talk about gassing character progression and at the same time about char/party build. There's not one without the other. With what you build your char/party, what resource (points, exp etc) if you did no progression to earn them? Or you want difficulty mode below story mode where game has lvled up your char/party for you?

Don't know, maybe it's my headache. But I really don't know what's the purpouse of this thread and Pete Hines

 

[theSavant]

Why the fuck do we even have this shit at all? Just pick your party and build it right, then mow through content. OH BOY BUT I LOVE PLAYING ON LOW LEVELS MISS MISS MISS MISS CRIT TAKES WHOLE PARTY WAHAHAA LOOVE IT.

No but seriously - the problems with controlling player's progression etc. etc. can be all thrown out of window if you just let him build his party freely and then force him to deal with it. [...] All the progression you'll need can be done via equipment.

I have indeed often the feeling, that character & skill progression is deceptive in party RPGs. In the end it comes down to which classes you choose for your party and how many of which class you have in the party. Micromanaging small amounts of points on skills often doesn't matter. While you first think it offers countless possibilities, it rarely makes a difference. You might as well choose race+class only for a character, and get rolling. There would still be enough replay value as you could just change your party setup next time.

Edit: or in other words - in party RPGs the gameplay is much more about how the party plays together, than micromanaging points on a single character.

 

[Molina]

Struggling for scraps. Then fighting your equals. Finally crushing foes you struggled with before?
Not every game should use this formula, but it’s a formula many people absolutely love.

This. In modern RPG, the beginning is not tough enough and the obsession with an overbalanced game makes the progression insipid.

 

[Sacred82]

You are confounding the problems specific to D&D with progression in general. Progression is a core element of power fantasy which is intrinsic to the structure of an RPG.

nop. Progression is a core element of power which is intrinsic to the structure of shooters, strategy games and others.

 

[kinzadza]

Guns in FPS are pointless as well

 

[Morkar Left]

Why the fuck do we even have this shit at all? Just pick your party and build it right, then mow through content. OH BOY BUT I LOVE PLAYING ON LOW LEVELS MISS MISS MISS MISS CRIT TAKES WHOLE PARTY WAHAHAA LOOVE IT.

No but seriously - the problems with controlling player's progression etc. etc. can be all thrown out of window if you just let him build his party(let's say you'll balance around level 13 in D&D because dunno) freely and then force him to deal with it. It solves the problem of early game being frustrating and lategame being cakewalk. All the progression you'll need can be done via equipment.

You are pointless.

And you should stay the fuck away from rpgs if you completely miss the main point of rpgs. Otherwise you just ruin them for everyone who actually really likes rpgs. Stay by your action games, strategy games, rts and fps please.

 

[a Goat]

To clarify, are you talking about all forms of "leveling?" No feats/perks/talents or ability increases? Or are you just against the general principle of gaining generalized increases at certain experience thresholds? If it's the general increase, I am in agreement. There are many RPGs that use experience as a point buy for improved abilities and perks, like Deadlands. Your health more or less stays static, but your skills improve only as you deliberately increase them. These kinds of systems are fantastic

Think of it like this. You have system with character progression and it's okay. Now pick a level which is the most fun and generate a party here. Here, that's what you're stuck for the rest of the game.

You can even experiment with things like fixed amount of experience shared between the party so you can play the game with one super mega OP dragonslayer XXXKURWAXXXMAN or with 100 of peons who can barely carry a sword. Of course, the game's encounters and challenges should be crafted so both of these options are kind of extreme and you're either missing a lot or going to have a hard time at some places, while the more middle of the ground approach will give you more optimal setup.

This solves the problems some games, old and new struggle with, like overleveling main quest cuz you were dicking around with sidequests too much, while giving you more elastic gameplay options than you'd normally have.

 

[kinzadza]

Would you like a tissue to wipe off those tears of yours?

 

[Nekot-The-Brave]

People like seeing their characters grow over time, it fuels and attachment with that or those characters.

 

[frajaq]

Vertical growth is so fucking boring, let characters grow horizontally too with access to more options

 

[buffalo bill]

I have the perfect RPG for you.
http://progressquest.com/play/