Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Fallout 4 Pre-Announcement Bullshit Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

Athelas

Arcane
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
4,502
it's been 200+ years since the nukes fell...why is everything still so fucked up?

i always come back to this.
Short answer: Bethesda's worlds are inhabited by people who can't be bothered to remove the buckets from their heads.
Long answer: they went with all the post-apocalyptic cliches for maximum mainstream appeal.
 

Necroscope

Arcane
Joined
Jul 21, 2012
Messages
1,985
Location
Polska
Codex 2014
Long answer: they went with all the post-apocalyptic cliches for maximum mainstream appeal.
All Bethesda games since Howard are cliches mixed with currently popular pop culture themes; I wouldn't be surprised if they set the game soon after the bombs fell and made The Walking Dead out of it - just like they raped TES lore in order to turn Cyrodiil into tolkienesque Disneyland.
 

DalekFlay

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
14,118
Location
New Vegas
All Bethesda games since Howard are cliches mixed with currently popular pop culture themes; I wouldn't be surprised if they set the game soon after the bombs fell and made The Walking Dead out of it - just like they raped TES lore in order to turn Cyrodiil into tolkienesque Disneyland.

Well he's certainly not changing things now since he's pumped more and more money out of the mainstream market each time.

At least Skyrim is less derp.
 

Kanedias

Savant
Joined
Sep 29, 2013
Messages
574
This was all predicted by Hieronymus Bosch. In fact one of his most famous paintings depicts Todd Howard sitting in his rightful throne, wearing his pot-crown... he is shown devouring the Fallout games while defecating Oblivion and Fallout 3 into a dark hole of money and feces where several tortured souls reside.

XtOaq9L.jpg
:balance:

We have been warned.
 

set

Cipher
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
940
The problem is I buy giant crabs, roboscorpions or deathclaws or whatever because the tone of those things is less artificial. Deathclaws have been around since FO1 and they sort of represent the twisted evil of the fallout, or whatever. They're a product of it and their physical manifestation doesn't matter. I would have accepted mutant goat enemies, or hydra cattle. Mutated beasts are what the fallout personifies, besides just the harsh desert or the uninhabitable former cites of humanity.

The Legion can and does represent some aspect of the Fallout theme, but Caesar never comes off believable. I just don't buy his stupid reasoning and I don't understand why he is at all feared by anybody. Because, first of all, he invites my character right into his fucking tent. Talk about a suspension of disbelief - the main baddy of the entire game asking you to come over almost as soon as the game starts? It's like asking for me to beat the game. It made me feel like he was stupid - how could he trust I wouldn't just pull the pin on a grenade and kill us all? Or I don't know, fuck him over in any number of possible ways.

I can accept giant scorpions because the hows and whys of their existence is simple: radiation. It's like magic - it is magic. Caesar is human. Caesar is not magic. There's no supernatural force behind his rise to power, he apparently is winning because the NCR doesn't know how to fight crazy tribals - how thematic and inspiring. Caesar is a human with a dumb idea that I can't refute in-game because I'm never given the right dialogue options. So, since I can't convince him of his own stupidity or even argue with the man on any meaningful level, I reject him and kill him. It's as simple as that. Him and his army are meaningless to me - I'm playing a video game, I do a few quick-loads, get my stupid mini-nuke ready, and whamo, he's no more. A robo-scorpion is also different in this way - there are only so many mini-nukes and OWB is quite happy to ensure there is a steady supply of robotic terrors everywhere, so they actually end up being an actual menace if you play that DLC at a low enough level. I never feared the Legion, but goddamn, did I hate those sniper scorps.

I accept and adore The Kings. I would accept and adore The Legion if they too had a building on the strip. But do I see The Kings conquering the Mojave? Uh, no. For similar reasons, The Legion is just stupid.

I would have rather seen Motor-Runner replace Caesar - at least the Fiends have that whole hedonism thing as an appeal. A game centered around the NCR and the Fiends could have been way more interesting. It would have been much easier to humanize that group as well, to make their cause attractive. Sure, the Fiends rape and murder almost as much as Caesar's Legion does, but they don't do it under any false pretenses; they're the personification of wild chaotic abandon, human desire unbound. Psychotic hippies with a lust for power, drugs, and sticking it to the NCR. In a way, they're more deeply connected with the wasteland than Caesar's stupid attempts at emulating ancient humans. At no point do you even scratch your heads at who, what or why the Fiends are.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
Messages
6,169
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
The problem is I buy giant crabs, roboscorpions or deathclaws or whatever because the tone of those things is less artificial. Deathclaws have been around since FO1 and they sort of represent the twisted evil of the fallout, or whatever. They're a product of it and their physical manifestation doesn't matter. I would have accepted mutant goat enemies, or hydra cattle. Mutated beasts are what the fallout personifies, besides just the harsh desert or the uninhabitable former cites of humanity.

The Legion can and does represent some aspect of the Fallout theme, but Caesar never comes off believable. I just don't buy his stupid reasoning and I don't understand why he is at all feared by anybody. Because, first of all, he invites my character right into his fucking tent. Talk about a suspension of disbelief - the main baddy of the entire game asking you to come over almost as soon as the game starts? It's like asking for me to beat the game. It made me feel like he was stupid - how could he trust I wouldn't just pull the pin on a grenade and kill us all? Or I don't know, fuck him over in any number of possible ways.

I can accept giant scorpions because the hows and whys of their existence is simple: radiation. It's like magic - it is magic. Caesar is human. Caesar is not magic. There's no supernatural force behind his rise to power, he apparently is winning because the NCR doesn't know how to fight crazy tribals - how thematic and inspiring. Caesar is a human with a dumb idea that I can't refute in-game because I'm never given the right dialogue options. So, since I can't convince him of his own stupidity or even argue with the man on any meaningful level, I reject him and kill him. It's as simple as that. Him and his army are meaningless to me - I'm playing a video game, I do a few quick-loads, get my stupid mini-nuke ready, and whamo, he's no more. A robo-scorpion is also different in this way - there are only so many mini-nukes and OWB is quite happy to ensure there is a steady supply of robotic terrors everywhere, so they actually end up being an actual menace if you play that DLC at a low enough level. I never feared the Legion, but goddamn, did I hate those sniper scorps.

I accept and adore The Kings. I would accept and adore The Legion if they too had a building on the strip. But do I see The Kings conquering the Mojave? Uh, no. For similar reasons, The Legion is just stupid.

I would have rather seen Motor-Runner replace Caesar - at least the Fiends have that whole hedonism thing as an appeal. A game centered around the NCR and the Fiends could have been way more interesting. It would have been much easier to humanize that group as well, to make their cause attractive. Sure, the Fiends rape and murder almost as much as Caesar's Legion does, but they don't do it under any false pretenses; they're the personification of wild chaotic abandon, human desire unbound. Psychotic hippies with a lust for power, drugs, and sticking it to the NCR. In a way, they're more deeply connected with the wasteland than Caesar's stupid attempts at emulating ancient humans. At no point do you even scratch your heads at who, what or why the Fiends are.

Fallout combines the hokey with the inspired pretty liberally, and some ideas are a blend of both. I would place Caesar and his Legion into that category. An actual post-apocalyptic society organized around Social Darwinism probably wouldn't self-consciously pattern itself around an ancient civilization like the Roman Empire, but the basic logic that Roman discipline supported a kind of moral superstructure that might have saved humanity from nuclear warfare is sound. Going so far as to actually pattern themselves after the Romans is a little odd, but consistent with the logic of the Fallout setting (the Brotherhood of Steel patterns itself off the monastic knights of the Middle Ages, the Khans represent the Khans, the Kings are Elvis impersonators, the tribes on the Strip model themselves after the Rat Pack era mafia, etc). The post-apocalyptic world is culturally bare and people lack the connections to the past that people today take for granted, so energetic leaders with vision and insight recover Pre-War imagery to inspire and direct their followers. In that context, it is logical a civilization as successful as the Romans would attract somebody's interest as a viable alternative to the phoniness and self-indulgence that overtook Pre-War United States in the Fallout timeline.

As far as the ease of killing Caesar, that's more the game's fault than anything else.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
Patron
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
Messages
11,573
Location
Black Goat Woods !@#*%&^
Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
So there was a countdown or something on some site with annoying noises to ensure I would never check it again? And the countdown lapsed and then nothing happened? Is that what we're mostly talking about here?
 

DalekFlay

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
14,118
Location
New Vegas
I accept and adore The Kings. I would accept and adore The Legion if they too had a building on the strip. But do I see The Kings conquering the Mojave? Uh, no. For similar reasons, The Legion is just stupid.

You're not really listing quality reasons, from what I can see. Yes you can walk into his camp with dozens of top quality soldiers around him, because he needs an insider on the other side of the river. It's only because VIDEO GAMES that you can attack him and walk out alive, same thing that makes killing two dozen super mutants on your way to the Master plausible. VIDEO GAMES bro.

As for him being stupid and not threatening, again, that's your weird hangup about the Roman outfits. He's got thousands upon thousands of well trained fighters who are well equipped and have been battle tested by fighting in tribal wars for years and years. He has a gun, training and numbers advantage over the NCR and was only defeated the first time before because of deception. How is he not a threat? Answer: because you have a weird hangup with the outfits and theme.
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
1,567
The Legion can and does represent some aspect of the Fallout theme, but Caesar never comes off believable. I just don't buy his stupid reasoning and I don't understand why he is at all feared by anybody. Because, first of all, he invites my character right into his fucking tent. Talk about a suspension of disbelief - the main baddy of the entire game asking you to come over almost as soon as the game starts? It's like asking for me to beat the game. It made me feel like he was stupid - how could he trust I wouldn't just pull the pin on a grenade and kill us all? Or I don't know, fuck him over in any number of possible ways.
His "stupid" reasoning behind what? Uniting the tribes? Conquering the mojave? It's the same as every other shithole nation in Fallout, Caesar wants to bring civilization to the waste, -begin again- , a civilization that can survive, and even, thrive, in the wasteland. I really don't understand what's so difficulty to grasp, care to give something specific. He invites you in because he isn't afraid of you, he takes your weapons before you enter, and you're surrounded by armed guards, and caesar himself is a miniboss in toughness and skill. Game mechanics aside, you shouldn't be able to beat him easily. Even then, it changes absolutely nothing other than an ending slide, as Lanius is already set to take over. (I'll admit that giving you the chip without having any way of ensuring you destroy the bunker was idiotic, I can't justify that shit writing..)
I can accept giant scorpions because the hows and whys of their existence is simple: radiation. It's like magic - it is magic. Caesar is human. Caesar is not magic. There's no supernatural force behind his rise to power, he apparently is winning because the NCR doesn't know how to fight crazy tribals - how thematic and inspiring. Caesar is a human with a dumb idea that I can't refute in-game because I'm never given the right dialogue options. So, since I can't convince him of his own stupidity or even argue with the man on any meaningful level, I reject him and kill him. It's as simple as that. Him and his army are meaningless to me - I'm playing a video game, I do a few quick-loads, get my stupid mini-nuke ready, and whamo, he's no more. A robo-scorpion is also different in this way - there are only so many mini-nukes and OWB is quite happy to ensure there is a steady supply of robotic terrors everywhere, so they actually end up being an actual menace if you play that DLC at a low enough level. I never feared the Legion, but goddamn, did I hate those sniper scorps.
His rise to power is thoroughly explained, pay attention. I don't know what more you want, he was smart, cunning, brutal, ambitious and well educated. He taught the tribes how to fight, maintain weaponry, use tactics, and to be brutal as fuck. Yeah so, the NCR, being a tribal village in Shady sands that tries hard to LARP pre war America being unable to beat a massive army of armed tribals and raiders that are better trained, stronger, and more dedicated than any of the dregs in the NCR, is apparently unbelievable.(Remember, the NCR isn't the modern government, they're not even the remnants of it. This isn't al Qaeda vs modern America, it's two large warring tribes that LARP different dead nations. ) Besides that, this isn't the whole NCR, the NCR is not unified, they don't all want the same thing. The NCR could surely crush the legion if they mobilized their entire army, enforced a draft and just ran them through, but they can't, because of the very inadequacies that Caesar removed from his legion.
I would have rather seen Motor-Runner replace Caesar - at least the Fiends have that whole hedonism thing as an appeal. A game centered around the NCR and the Fiends could have been way more interesting. It would have been much easier to humanize that group as well, to make their cause attractive. Sure, the Fiends rape and murder almost as much as Caesar's Legion does, but they don't do it under any false pretenses; they're the personification of wild chaotic abandon, human desire unbound. Psychotic hippies with a lust for power, drugs, and sticking it to the NCR. In a way, they're more deeply connected with the wasteland than Caesar's stupid attempts at emulating ancient humans. At no point do you even scratch your heads at who, what or why the Fiends are.
Emulating ancient humans? lolol, like the khans, kings, NCR, brotherhood, etc etc etc.. So, fiends are appealing because they are hedonistic, and Caesar is bad because they ban wasteful behaviour? Your ideas sound boring, your game sounds awful, NCR vs fiends, lame. The NCR already has junkies, that's why what you're saying is boring, the NCR is free, the NCR is wasteful, weak, divided. The Legion is efficient, strong, cruel, and strict, these are good contrasts. The legions is a far right nation, that not appealing to you doesn't make it bad. Hedonism is as connected to the wasteland as overeating is to africa, how can someone indulge in excess in a world of scarcity and limited resources?

Also, the roboscorpion bit is wrong as well, The legion assassins attack after Caesar's death, and the war at the dam is unchanged. They don't cease to be a threat because you killed Caesar.
 

Jick Magger

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
5,667
Location
New Zealand
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Bubbles In Memoria
If anything, I'd find it less believable that the NCR's terrified of a band of barely-organized strung-out hippies who're only stopping themselves from killing one another so long as someone keeps their supply going than the biggest, most organized faction the NCR's ever faced since the Brotherhood of Steel.

People who keep crying about how the Legion shouldn't be winning because 'LOL FOOTBALL GEAR AND SHARP STICKS' keep forgetting that the Legion's been spending the past five years since their loss at the hoover dam basically shattering the morale at the NCR without resorting to outright battles. Hit-and-Run attacks on caravans and patrols, radiation bombs on NCR camps (and if Vulpes could get away with it, chlorine bombing the strip), raids on outposts and settlements where they crucify everyone they haven't raped and sold to slavery. Hell, by the time you arrive in the Mojave they've just started probing further inwards to see how much they can get away with. The completely green NCR troopers, due to a combination of general incompetence, glory mongering, and bureaucratic interference, are essentially stuck fighting trench warfare against an enemy that not only heavily outnumbers them, but have been indoctrinated to be fanatically devoted to their leader and are really good at working wonders with those machetes they're carrying. About the only silly thing about them are the costumes, which are, once again, just football padding, which works as fairly cheap, easy to produce armor which is effective when you're trying to equip an army in the thousands.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,437
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
So there was a countdown or something on some site with annoying noises to ensure I would never check it again? And the countdown lapsed and then nothing happened? Is that what we're mostly talking about here?

It hasn't lapsed.
 

Space Satan

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
6,239
Location
Space Hell
Legion suffered from Bethesda's engine. In concepts they had one thing that will negate NCR range advantage - we all remember that concept art of armored Legion "chariot" - a mean to close distance to delicious melee.
 

Space Satan

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
6,239
Location
Space Hell
vault119.com/
Entered one of "decoy" my mail adresses in case of some scam :cool:
[Querying whois.verisign-grs.com]
[Redirected to whois.enom.com]
[Querying whois.enom.com]
[whois.enom.com]


Domain Name: VAULT119.COM
Creation Date: 2013-11-29 18:10:00Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2014-11-29 18:10:00Z
Registrar: ENOM, INC.
Reseller: NAMECHEAP.COM
Registrant Name: WHOISGUARD PROTECTED
Registrant Organization: WHOISGUARD, INC.
Registrant Street: P.O. BOX 0823-03411
Registrant City: PANAMA
Registrant State/Province: PANAMA
Registrant Postal Code: NA
Registrant Country: PA
Admin Name: WHOISGUARD PROTECTED
Admin Organization: WHOISGUARD, INC.
Admin Street: P.O. BOX 0823-03411
Admin City: PANAMA
Admin State/Province: PANAMA
Nope.avi
 

Borelli

Arcane
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
Messages
1,268
Legion suffered from Bethesda's engine. In concepts they had one thing that will negate NCR range advantage - we all remember that concept art of armored Legion "chariot" - a mean to close distance to delicious melee.
Legion was supposed to have chariots? lol wut?

"googles a bit"

Holy shit.:lol:
Legion.jpg
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
23,731
The Legion isn't that far-fetched, especially considering the context of Fallout. Hell, it's a viable faction in other post-apocalyptic stories. Just because they are dressed funny and believe in Mars doesn't make them unable to exist: uniting tribes under a single ideology that is religious while having brutal yet effective warfare tactics is actually a concept grounded in reality. Contrast that with NCR, which wouldn't exist without a single man destroying an army of mutants and their master by himself, a group of tech-knights who supported them with high-tech gear after the fact, and a tribal who defeated a surviving US shadow government.

Do honestly tell me that NCuuuuuuuuuuuur is more realistic compared to the Legion with a straight face. I'd sooner listen to Father Elijah.

hqdefault.jpg


Yep, you're more crazy than this motherfucker.
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
23,731
Speaking of NCuuuuuuuuuur, I find it terrifying how similar the U.S is compared to them. I wonder what event will be my country's Hoover Dam?
 

set

Cipher
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
940
I'm trying to imagine NV on a better engine with the legion using chariots. But I can't, because it's just too ridiculous.

I probably would have loved to fight them like that though.

But the chariots themselves would have to be pretty fuckin' rare because otherwise they could use them to out-supply-run the NCR. A chariot charge would be like any classic infantry charge - but with metallic armor. Meaning, you'd be able to charge headlong into bullets if you kept your head down and made your wheels not depend upon easily-bustable tires.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
Messages
3,181
Jesus, what the fuck... I thought Legion was retarded in all its LARPing glory before, but that "chariot" takes idiocy to a whole new level of BSN material.
What's wrong with it, its a steampunk chariot made of salvaged cars. Must do a number of puny weak tribals;
You mean, what's wrong with cutting up cars and reassembling them into useless, structurally weak contraptions, instead of - oh, I dunno - just fixing cars up and using them gajillion times more effectively?
If by "do a number on tribals" you mean making them collapse from laughter, then sure, a sound tactic.

Even real chariots back in the day had very limited uses, most of which consisted of prancing about looking pretty and rich as all fuck. Sure, they could've been used to try breaking formations of foot soldiers, but that required a) actual formations, b) flat ground, c) buttload of [very expensive] chariots and d) formations actually breaking - otherwise, lol no, crawl back to Hollywood.
I can't even begin to imagine what use could that gas-chariot be in a Fallout setting, except removing all doubt from its owner being a LARPing retard.

Oh, and did I mention Legion in FNV is retarded? Well, there you go, just in case. And FYI, they're also LARPers.
 

Tommy Wiseau

Arcane
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
9,424
Who says they were cutting up functioning cars? Functional auto parts are probably rare in Fallout so you take what you can get. :troll:
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
23,731
Oh, and did I mention Legion in FNV is retarded? Well, there you go, just in case. And FYI, they're also LARPers.

If the Legion is retarded then NCuuuuuuur is a brain-dead lead paint chip eating dipfuck.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom