Fallout 4 Pre-Release Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Legion is harsh and burns you and rots you right away at a fault but are otherwise dignified.

NCR is more freedumm! but burns you inside, slowly rotting your soul away in its bureaucratic oppressive shithole. Soviet State Lite. Yup. So obvious they are the "good" guys.

 

Also, i don't need weapons lol

 

Maybe we're using differnent meaning of the phrase "good guys/bad guys".
I mean it in the more profound American Way. You can't agree with the Enclave in FO3, you can't ally with Herma mora in TES V, etc... "The good guy" means "those that share my values".
Hitler, Stalin, Bush, Osama, all of them were "the good guys" for sizeable numbers of morons.

 

Authoritanism appeals to pathetic beta nerds (second only to a jumped up technocrat who fancies himself a benevolent dictator nvm filling peoples homes in with concrete) what a shocker. If your house is surrounded by people nailed to crosses then yeah you're probably 'the bad guy'.

 

It was an obvious parody/commentary of the Afghan/Iraq occupation. The Legion, I think, were originally only intended as antagonists. Otherwise you'd think NCR and Legion development would have occurred simultaneously so any kind of 'trimming' would effect both sides equally as opposed to shorting one almost entirely.

I mentioned that. Everyone is someone's good guy. Everything is relative. Everything. But you can't have much meaningful discussion making everything relative. I'm talking about the commonly understand definition: white hat/black hat.

 

I chose sides based on intent. NCR and Legion both had same intent- to conquer and increase their own power and influence. House wanted to create his own small dominion and rule fairly over a small population and provide the comfort and happiness of the old world- even if it was just an illusion. In doing so, House was able to maintain his small kingdom, and wanted to groom the PC to continue his vision as time went on.

 

You are making the standard liberal and modern error to equate "authoritarian" with violent evil.

 

I don't disagree. House is probably the best choice in terms of the society most of us would want to live in today. My only point in arguing this is people who try desperately to portray New Vegas as not having any clear bad guys. It does. And as I said originally, that you're given the choice to join them doesn't mean they aren't the bad guys. It just means you choose to be one of them.

 

It's arguments like these that made me choose Mr. House.

Kif, what makes a man turn neutral?

 

But that's how the world works, and that's why NV feels much more authentic. Black and white predetermined morality lies more in the "Epic Fantasy" genre, not the "Post-Apocaliptic".

For the record, my true alignment would be with them Followers hippies. Decent folk.

 

Crucifying people, and not just criminals, is fairly 'evil' by my standards (or any rational person's standards for that matter). The Legion massacred nearly everyone in Nipton. Pretty sure they weren't all criminals.

(In b4 'Bitter Springs.')

 

On the surface it certainly seems that way, but once you dive more into backstories, lore, sidequests, etc. my thought is that who is bad vs. good was supposed to be very muddled.

 

Unrealistic tho, without an actual plan on how to develop the wasteland. They were the "Occupy Wallstreet" movement of the wastes.

 

It was supposed to be but, for the fifth time, since the Legion content was cut you can't make that assertion based on what's actually in the game.

 

Nipton was pretty fucked up. It had been completely taken over by powder gangers who wanted to massacre NCR troops visiting the prostitutes. And the NCR troops were partaking in activities outlawed by Caesar. By their perspective, Nipton was a festering den of iniquity.

 

Have you ever played a character that supported the legion?

 

Well, "not nice" from my perspective, or yours, yes. But put enough people of the type I described above together (as in, imagine they are the majority) - the center of the axis shifts, and suddenly you are in the wrong. The point I am trying to make is that it is legitimately possible to unquestionably side with Caesar, given that certain perspective on the matters in which the Legion and NCR differ. There is sort of a meme in the russian-speaking internet: "Only mass executions will save the Motherland", and, though it is mainly used as a way of mocking this viewpoint, some people (sadly it seems - the majority, nowadays) really feel that way. And, they would hastily point out that the people on the crosses in Nipton are powder-gangers, Legion-controlled territories are, indeed, safe from raiders and the like, and Caesar rules with a "strong hand" (another commonly used expression in my part of the world).

The bottomline is that this entire conflict depicted in NV is a clash of very real ideologies, and that is one of the many reasons NV is a work of art, while FO3 is a turd in a puddle.

However, I do agree with you in that the Legion is much worse news than NCR, again, this is a matter of our general way of thinking and personal morality, not an objective truth.

 

Anyway, why all this arguing when we can all agree Fallout 4 is 10/10 GOTY 2015. I will write a glorious review.

 

Yes. And most of the shit they do is pretty bad.

 

I'd probably side with House if not for his insistendce of razing BoS

 

@ Metro -

Sorry, I'm not being clear.

I agree with you that AS PRESENTED in the game, Caesar's Legion is irredeemably evil, and any good they do is incidental and not by choice.

What I was saying is that had Obsidian been a little more imaginative in creating the Legion, and presented it somewhat differently, then it would have been a more difficult choice. For example, crucifying as a terror tactic is evil. Crucifying caravan raiders, on the other hand, is defensible given the lives and the fragile communities dependent on that trade. Etc.

I agree with you about the actual situation in game. I've finished the game for House and did one NCR version for fun, but I've never done it with Legion.

 

'kay, I will hug you now.

So, let's say half the town was corrupt (which it probably wasn't), that means it's cool beans to murder the other half? Nah. They're evil, bro. Just admit it.

 

K, sure. Crucifixion is love. Crucifixion is life.

Extremely NSFW.

Show Spoiler Hide Spoiler

Enjoy your autoritarian order.

 

Want some irradiated pizza?

 

crojipjip