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FO3 is not nearly as bad as you hystronic nerds make it out to be

Discussion in 'Bethesda Game Studios' started by ThatsRightImInIt, Sep 3, 2019.

  1. JackOfOwls Liturgist

    JackOfOwls
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    Oh, the irony. It seems you yourself defend the Troika games and anything you don't like with the fire of a thousand fanboys just by the tone and the context of your posts . By the way, puns are the odor given off by a decaying mind. And bad punning like "Bethestard" proves it in your case.
     
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  2. Sigourn Arcane

    Sigourn
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    You should be in position to explain it, seeing as Bethesda's Fallout vastly overshadowed the classics when it came to popularity, critical and commercial success... one could even say that classic Fallout is not criticized as often as Bethesda's Fallout because pretty much no one but the hardcore fanbase cares about classic Fallout anymore...

    The delusion some Codexers suffer from is baffling.
     
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  3. Wayward Son Fails to keep valuable team members alive

    Wayward Son
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    I played through the entire game trying to find something I enjoyed and there were moments that I found to be tolerable but the game wasn’t even a good post-millennium Bethesda game. It lacks what makes their other games actually fun imo. While Oblivion and Skyrim aren’t well designed games by any stretch, they at least succeed in places, such as having an actual open world. Not once did Fallout 3 feel like that.
     
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  4. JDR13 Prophet

    JDR13
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    Yeah, because we all know sales numbers are an indication of quality... especially when you're comparing a game from 2008 to games from 1997-98 when the PC market was much smaller. Nevermind that Fallout 3 was also released on 3 different platforms as opposed to PC-only.
     
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  5. Okagron Prophet

    Okagron
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    Here's my story with Fallout 3: it was literally my first Fallout. I had no preconceived notions of what the series was actually about and i hated everything. I hate how shallow the RPG elements are. I hated that long, unskippable intro that does an extremely poor job at setting up the story. I hated the shooting. I hated the story, the characters, most of the quests. Everything is just so poorly designed it's astounding how Bethesda managed to make such a poor product.

    You haven't countered a single argument and you are just resorting to same nonsense the Bethestards use. Actually counter something instead of bullshiting like you are doing. And you are the hypocrite: you admitted to modding the game after you say that the people that hate Fallout 3 just hate different. You modded the game and changed the game to be different for YOUR NEEDS. You are not playing the vanilla Fallout 3, you are playing an heavily modified version. So don't come with bullshit that we hate different when you modify the game we say it's shit, because the vanilla version is shit.

    And no, Fallout 3 isn't good for what it is. Not in a million years.
     
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  6. JDR13 Prophet

    JDR13
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    How did it not feel like an open world? It didn't have the greatest design, but it was just as open as Skyrim or Oblivion.
     
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  7. Wayward Son Fails to keep valuable team members alive

    Wayward Son
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    Been a while since I played, but iirc significant portions of DC were locked behind really shitty boring linear dungeons that you had to go through
     
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  8. Clockwork Knight Arcane

    Clockwork Knight
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    Not as ironic as it looks. The Bethesda Fallouts massive popularity means they are criticized more but are reverenced way more too. People look especially insecure by jumping in to defend them in one of the few corners of the internet where they aren't praised endlessly. Meanwhile people who come in here to shit on the local darlings act like they're brave by telling it like it is. Yeah, you don't like some niche decades-old crpgs, that's unique.

    They went overboard but some damage reduction was kind of necessary since the lack of a cover system made it so your character stood upright and exposed himself completely to aim. Even then, sometimes I was stubborn and would try to use it from behind ledges or holes in walls and my bullets would hit invisible bricks.

    by the way

    Show Spoiler
    I am looking for my son, a middle-aged man. Have you seen him?
     
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  9. JackOfOwls Liturgist

    JackOfOwls
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    Oh, you're such drama queen. Did you play all of FO3 + the DLCs? Because I get this overwhelming feeling that you did. Personally I've never done that before , played a game to the end I hated but that's another bag of lost marbles, people who finish books they hate, watch movies they loathe all the way through or play games to the end they despise. I don't counter your arguments because you come off as a typical dogmatic, elitest type, and some of the arguments are frankly kind of fatuous, like saying FO3 has no valid FPS mechanics because they have no weight and feel floaty. Not even sure what the fuck that means. Sure it may not have the best mechanics in FPSs but it still fits the definition... you shoot through a first person perspective, they get hit, damage is calculated by the weapon and if it's high enough, they fall down. Animations are sometimes not implemented in the best way, but it's fairly simple. Anyway, try harder. But answer my question above. I want to see how far gone you are.
     
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  10. JackOfOwls Liturgist

    JackOfOwls
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    Wow, people actually claim here that FO3 didn't feel like an open world? It's one of the most open world games I ever played. In fact, I missed so much on a first play through, including The Dunwich Building, that I had to play the game again, this time with mods. It's one of the most exhausting open world games I ever played that I didn't regret playing, with Zelda BotW perhaps being the most exhausting.
     
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  11. Wayward Son Fails to keep valuable team members alive

    Wayward Son
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    Tbf take what I say with a grain of salt since I haven’t played it since I was like 13 or 14
     
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  12. Tigranes Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Tigranes
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    That only underscores how fundamentally idiotic the system was in the first place.

    Let's take a (bad) real time shooting system then have an ability where everybody suddenly stands still and you shoot them!

    Oh no, the enemies are blowing up the player who can't move anymore! Let's make the player practically invincible!

    Oh no, now the player can eat rockets in the face while killing helpless enemies, meaning you can use VATS as a God mode button to kill people at a rate that would be impossible in real time!

    Oh well, let's ship it.
     
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  13. JackOfOwls Liturgist

    JackOfOwls
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    Yeah, wasn't a fan of that, that you could only access certain zones with the subway tunnels and rubble served as insurmountable barriers. It felt contrived but tolerable since most games do that shit, sort of cage you in to follow a certain path they want you to follow.
     
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  14. Lemming42 Arcane

    Lemming42
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    The map design is really weird - as people have said, the wasteland is true open world but feels mostly boring and awkwardly designed. There's cool stuff and bases, dungeons, camps, outposts etc that most players will want to see, but they're just randomly scattered around with no logic or forethought. And, as usual with these games, the stuff that's worth seeing is hidden away amid a mass of stupid boring copy/paste dungeons that waste your time.

    The DC area is more linear and forces you into metro tunnels, but the actual above ground sections are some of the best parts of the game, to me anyway. Bethesda had some really good art designers working on Fo3 and walking around the ruins of the strange vaguely Fallout-inspired 1930s - 1950s city they designed can be very Atmospheric™. Plus, sneaking through the ruined buildings is about as much fun as you can have with the stealth skill in any Bethesda game, even if it's still janky as fuck.
     
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  15. Kyl Von Kull The Night Tripper Patron

    Kyl Von Kull
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    Fallout 3 was so disappointing to many of us who grew up with the originals that we tend to get sidetracked when we criticize it. I think the shooting is garbage and VATS is ridiculous, but New Vegas only made marginal improvements to those systems and I love New Vegas. So the combat in FO3 can't be its fatal flaw.

    For me (and I think I speak for many of us), New Vegas is redeemed by its content: writing, quest design, world design, reactivity, meaningful choices & meaningful consequences, and the way they applied SPECIAL/skills/traits/perks (i.e. the implementation of this stuff in game more than the design of the systems themselves). Obsidian took Bethesda’s toolkit and they used it to create a very different kind of game.

    By the same token, FO3 is irredeemable (at least to most of us here) because of its content.

    It’s not that the writing is bad/stupid, it’s not that the characters are paper thin, it’s not that the ultra linear main story is flaccid (though I think all those things are true). All this stuff is a distraction from the core problem: Bethesda’s design philosophy.

    Obligatory caveat: I know millions of people love Bethesda’s design philosophy. De gustibus non disputandum est. So I won’t say they’re wrong, but I will say the BGS fanbase wants VERY different things from an RPG (loosely defined) than we do.

    So here’s my charitable read* of Bethesda’s design philosophy.

    *
    Show Spoiler
    My professors always pleaded with us to engage in a charitable reading of anything we read/watched/played (at least on the first pass, especially if we objected to it), meaning we should assume the author/creator was operating in good faith and if there’s any ambiguity we go with the more generous interpretation.


    Bethesda wants to immerse their players in big open worlds where you can “go anywhere, do anything.” They love exploration and want to reward the player for exploring. Those may be the two most important pillars of BGS’s design philosophy.

    Combine them, and ideally you should have a game where you can point yourself in any direction and you will quickly see something in the near distance that looks worth exploring. Maybe it’s a little settlement with one or two quests, maybe it’s an abandoned bunker with some environmental storytelling, maybe it’s a pre-war building full of loot and computer terminal entries loaded with lore, maybe it’s just a neat landmark, maybe it’s a tricky enemy (deathclaws you’re not ready for even with level scaling, that sniper dude set up in the middle of the mine field) or lots of non tricky ones.

    I don’t like this design philosophy, but I understand why other people do.

    The thing is, if you’re planning to have small bits of content scattered all over the map so the player has something to look forward to every few minutes, it constrains what you can do with that content. Because BGS wants their points of interest to be enjoyable regardless of what order you find them in, they have a strong incentive to make this stuff modular. Meaning most of the content needs to stand on its own. Obviously some of these locations are connected by quests, but too many connections like this would dilute the sense of free & fun open world exploration that BGS is shooting for. Same goes for reactivity and significant C&C.

    That’s what they’re aiming for and they usually deliver. But I hate this approach. The atomized content spread across the map doesn’t engage me at all. I don’t care about exploration for the sake of exploration if there are hardly any connections between places.

    In New Vegas, Obsidian funnels you down the highway, they introduce you to factions major and minor, most side quests are in some way connected to the war in the Mojave. But you can’t just wander off in any random direction and expect to find a “cool” point of interest. That’s not the kind of game they were trying to make. Instead, you’re usually trying to get from point A to point B. To me, this is a perfect trade off—I don’t care if the map has a big chunk of empty desert. I don’t want to wander in any random direction to stumble on some artfully arranged skeletons. I like it when my RPGs give me a reason to do things.



    But it’s not a cult-like obsession with Black Isle/Troika/old Obsidian that makes us dislike Bethesda out of spite. These developers aren’t trying to create the same kind of experience and they value very different things in their games. We prefer the Black Isle & descendants school of design. Bethesda games don’t even attempt to scratch that itch—of course we don’t fucking like them.
     
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  16. Cat Dude Learned

    Cat Dude
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    Those are fundamental to Bethesda Softwork open world game design.
     
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  17. Sigourn Arcane

    Sigourn
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    Why does everyone always miss the point? Here, let me put it side by side:
    • "Fallout 3 fans are butthurt a game they like is not liked by every single person on the planet"
    • Fallout 3 is liked by more people than Wasteland, Fallout, and Fallout 2 combined.
    • One of the most successful RPGs of all time.
    Fallout 3 fans have no reason to be butthurt; classic Fallout fans have every reason to be. Notice how in mainstream forums you won't see people bashing on the classics short of "I tried these games and they were shit", whereas the Codex doesn't miss an opportunity to shit on Fallout 3 because they are butthurt about the game's massive success. I didn't make a single mention of "quality", and yet retards like you and FeelTheRads always bring it up. Saying the game is a "critical success" doesn't mean "look, the game is better". It means "no matter how much you hate it, in the eyes of the public it will always be better than classic Fallout", and that's what hurts you guys the most. I know because I also prefer classic Fallout, and I also prefer Morrowind over Skyrim.

    Also lol at implying Fallout 3 was such a success because it was "multiplatform" and released on 2008. No, it was such a success because people aren't as interested in an isometric cRPG as they are in an open world FPS RPG.
     
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  18. Tigranes Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Tigranes
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    That's what I would have thought, too. Evidence shows otherwise, for some weird reason.

    Frankly, I have no time for holier than thou morons who impute bad faith on people that disagree with them. I played Fallout 3, had very little fun, and found it an awful game. I can also believe that million of people found Fallout 3 very fun and super great. I don't need to insist that they must be paid Bethestard shills. And they shouldn't need to insist that I must irrationally hate FO3 even though I secretly enjoy it.

    Sales numbers and critical acclaim are only relevant if you want to talk about which game is more popular or accessible. Those things are obviously important. But I don't care, myself. I'm not playing games for millions of people, I'm playing games for myself. So I have no need to care either way how many awards Fallout 3 wins or not.
     
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  19. JDR13 Prophet

    JDR13
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    Sure smells like butthurt to me. You're acting like a little bitch because there's people here who don't care for a game that you happen to like.

    And don't try to speak for others to bolster your gay argument. You have no idea what "the public" prefers. A large percentage of people who say they like Fallout 3 have never even played the older titles.
     
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  20. Cat Dude Learned

    Cat Dude
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    And those who usually preferred Fallout 3 and dissed classic ones had Fallout 3 as their first fallout game they have played. But I'm probably in minority here as fallout 3 was the first fallout game I've played but still thought classic fallout games and New Vegas are better.
     
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  21. Bastardchops Learned

    Bastardchops
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    Fallout 3 isn't terrible, it's just mediocre.
     
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  22. FeelTheRads Arcane Patron

    FeelTheRads
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    Actually it's you missing the point, as always, you dumb retarded cretin.
    That's exactly what I'm saying, they have no reason to be butthurt and yet the butthurt of Bethestards burns stronger than any other.

    I have nothing to explain. I don't give a shit if the lowest common denominator doesn't like what I do. In fact if they don't that makes me feel better about myself. :smug: Which I suppose means that the lowest common denominator feels bad when the elite don't like what they do, so that would explain why they're so butthurt.

    The butthurt of the fans of the original comes from the series being raped over and over, not from peasants being peasants. After all, not everyone can enjoy the classics. :smug:
     
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  23. FeelTheRads Arcane Patron

    FeelTheRads
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    By the way, speaking of the Bethestard butthurt, I forgot about this:

    The butthurt on the Bethesda forums was at critical levels at that point. They had "RPGCodex" and derivatives censored by their word-filter. Just imagine what sad sacks of shit they are.

    :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
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  24. Jedi Master Radek Arcane

    Jedi Master Radek
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    Is it sill being censored? :)
     
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  25. Roguey Arcane Sawyerite

    Roguey
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    I don't believe so. After the mega-success of Skyrim, Bethesda stopped its blacklisting-of-small-sites policy. We're just a drop in the bucket to them now.
     
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