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From where take Game Mastering advice?

Lagi

Savant
Joined
Jul 19, 2015
Messages
726
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Desert
Tell me where is the best source of wisdom about how to be the best possible version of GM ?
Since the net is full of shit and journalism level of guidance, please point me into the right direction.
XOR
what are your golden advice to run a fun game that will not be a waste of everyone's time?

here is the best I find so far

this guy is quite on point
 

nikolokolus

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
4,090
Skorkowsky is pretty good, the Questing Beast channel does some pretty good reviews of products. But I still lean way more on essays and blogs floating around out there if I need some help shifting my perspective.

Our very own Melan (aka. Gabor Lux) has an excellent blog full of good advice, reviews, his zine, etc. https://beyondfomalhaut.blogspot.com
Hack n' Slash has always had pretty insightful stuff http://hackslashmaster.blogspot.com/
Chris Kutalik's Hill Cantons blog has some really great advice (particularly on how to run point-crawls, using campaign news, etc.) http://hillcantons.blogspot.com/
Jeff Rients' blog is also a go-to for tons of good advice, reflections on running games, etc. http://jrients.blogspot.com/
 

Lagi

Savant
Joined
Jul 19, 2015
Messages
726
Location
Desert
Skorkowsky is pretty good, the Questing Beast channel does some pretty good reviews of products. But I still lean way more on essays and blogs floating around out there if I need some help shifting my perspective.

Our very own Melan (aka. Gabor Lux) has an excellent blog full of good advice, reviews, his zine, etc. https://beyondfomalhaut.blogspot.com
Hack n' Slash has always had pretty insightful stuff http://hackslashmaster.blogspot.com/
Chris Kutalik's Hill Cantons blog has some really great advice (particularly on how to run point-crawls, using campaign news, etc.) http://hillcantons.blogspot.com/
Jeff Rients' blog is also a go-to for tons of good advice, reflections on running games, etc. http://jrients.blogspot.com/

that was nice to read, but really hard to find some gaming mastering advice. I find 2 nice map inspiration however:
cool hex map that suddenly make traveling interesting
Cool area map that capture the structure of adventure not sure if its actually helpful in game.
 

Lagi

Savant
Joined
Jul 19, 2015
Messages
726
Location
Desert
1. GM be prepare
Before session, DM: Make NPC (&theirs stats). Draw maps. Print pictures. Know the plot and events that will happen - are they making sens? Check PC character sheet and make adventure test checks around PC skills.

2. non linear game
before rolling dice, GM agree with PC what will happened and on what result. If there are degree of success establish other results as well before roll.
f.ex: GM: "you make persuasion test, if you succeed by rolling 45 or less the NPC will share with you his problems and that is a new quest for you, if you failed he will not speak with you anymore"
PC: "65 - ok I fail. So i go to..."

what if this screw up the game? that is the point. Spoiled games are in fact the best. I would even said each PC dream is to move out of GM frame.

3. PC roll dice and make decision fast
PC have to :
a) make decision fast - don't ask for more information, with question like: "what color are the watchmen trousers?"
b) roll dice instantly. I mean you hear from GM to make a test, the dice are roll in the same second.
Lot of time could be saved, because half of the time roll is very bad or very good, and it automatically determine result - without the need to take into account that you have +1 from some trinkets/feats written on the margin of char sheet.
 

nikolokolus

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
4,090
Skorkowsky is pretty good, the Questing Beast channel does some pretty good reviews of products. But I still lean way more on essays and blogs floating around out there if I need some help shifting my perspective.

Our very own Melan (aka. Gabor Lux) has an excellent blog full of good advice, reviews, his zine, etc. https://beyondfomalhaut.blogspot.com
Hack n' Slash has always had pretty insightful stuff http://hackslashmaster.blogspot.com/
Chris Kutalik's Hill Cantons blog has some really great advice (particularly on how to run point-crawls, using campaign news, etc.) http://hillcantons.blogspot.com/
Jeff Rients' blog is also a go-to for tons of good advice, reflections on running games, etc. http://jrients.blogspot.com/

that was nice to read, but really hard to find some gaming mastering advice. I find 2 nice map inspiration however:
cool hex map that suddenly make traveling interesting
Cool area map that capture the structure of adventure not sure if its actually helpful in game.

Running a game cannot be taught by watching Youtube videos or by reading blogs. All you can do is run games, gain experience and then when you run into obstacles go find people that have run into the same or similar problems. Those blogs I listed aren't handbooks to running a game, they are repositories of knowledge, written by people with a ton of experience and frequently offer solutions to problems, so they are maybe worth mining for ideas and approaches.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
11,760
Tell me where is the best source of wisdom about how to be the best possible version of GM ?
16887.jpg


DMGR1 Campaign Sourcebook and Catacomb Guide is a good starting point. You can also look up relevant articles from Dragon Magazine, such as "Procedure and Style Tips for Good GMing" by Lewis Pulsipher in issue #75 (July 1983) or "Five Keys to DMing Success" by Mike Beeman in issue #80 (December 1980).
 

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,778
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
1. GM be prepare
Before session, DM: Make NPC (&theirs stats). Draw maps. Print pictures. Know the plot and events that will happen - are they making sens? Check PC character sheet and make adventure test checks around PC skills.

2. non linear game
before rolling dice, GM agree with PC what will happened and on what result. If there are degree of success establish other results as well before roll.
f.ex: GM: "you make persuasion test, if you succeed by rolling 45 or less the NPC will share with you his problems and that is a new quest for you, if you failed he will not speak with you anymore"
PC: "65 - ok I fail. So i go to..."

what if this screw up the game? that is the point. Spoiled games are in fact the best. I would even said each PC dream is to move out of GM frame.

3. PC roll dice and make decision fast
PC have to :
a) make decision fast - don't ask for more information, with question like: "what color are the watchmen trousers?"
b) roll dice instantly. I mean you hear from GM to make a test, the dice are roll in the same second.
Lot of time could be saved, because half of the time roll is very bad or very good, and it automatically determine result - without the need to take into account that you have +1 from some trinkets/feats written on the margin of char sheet.
4. Learn to write english.
 

Snorkack

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Sorry for the thread hijack, I'm looking for some specific kind of advice. Currently I'm preparing a megadungeon, and while there's plenty of resources in the www on how to build and design one, ideas on how to actually run one as a GM are scarce.
What puzzles me the most is how I can effectively invoke the feeling of getting lost in my players. The two usual ways of running a dungeon crawl fall short in this regard:
-A map is drawn along with the progression in the dungeon, like an automap in videogames. This way, the players always know exactly where they are in regards of the entrance they came in. Losing orientation is a non-issue unless they are displaced by a trap or the dungeon geometry changed in the meantime.
-There's no map at all, everything's being handled narratively. This way, getting lost is only possible by means of something like a failed orientation skill roll. This doesn't sound very interesting, either: I imagine stuff like "you wander around aimlessly for 1D6 hours" over and over until the players finally pass the orientation check.
Fyi, this is set in the Dark Eye world where magic isn't as ubiquitous as in, say, the Forgotten Realms, so spinners or teleport traps on every corner are rather unsuitable.

Here's what I'm currently thinking about: Each dungeon level is mapped on a Din A4 sheet and placed on the table. Above it lies an opaque Din A3 sheet with a hole in the center, with a ~ 1-2 inch diameter. This hole is the viewport, it's centered at where the players are currently at. Moving it is equivalent to ingame movement of the PCs in the dungeon. Players may attempt to to map what they see on another sheet. Under certain circumstances, like being involved in a fight or wandering around in a huge, pitch black room, they have to pass an orientation check, otherwise the map under the viewport is rotated by an unknown amount of degrees. This way, players can never be 100% sure whether they can easily backtrack the same way they came in.
I haven't tried it yet, but there are already a few shortcomings:
-it's kinda clunky. Don't know how I should implement the map spinning.
-PCs can see everything in the viewport - basically they can through walls with limited range (well, at least the dungeon layout)
-System falls apart if party splits up

Overall I guess this system won't be a success at the game table as-is, but I think you get the idea of what I'm trying to achieve.
How do you handle dungeon-delving and getting lost effectively?
 

Optimist

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My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
How do you handle dungeon-delving and getting lost effectively?

Honestly, I always assumed that if my jerkoff players can draw a map, their fairly competent characters should be able to do at least as well. Players hand-drawing their maps is a time-honored tradition and one that I would always use over the idea of some kind of a minimap you're suggesting. I think you might be missing another problem, by the way - while moving the overlay around, you'd inadvertently show some pieces of the map they have not seen yet.

My suggestions and experiences:
- Don't draw the map for them, just describe the rooms and corridors they're in. Make sure that you are not showing where they are, they need to come to this conclusion using both your descriptions and their drawings. This adds a nice element of uncertainty for the players, even if it usually doesn't do anything by itself.
- If they're in darkness/ running, or are otherwise engaged - cut the descriptions to the minimum and don't let them roll/ draw ("The footsteps are approaching! You're in a small room with worn-down statue, two doors, and a trapdoor. What do you do? You feel like you don't have much time before they get here!"). Actually, have some overpowering threat (that can be easily split into manageable threats for later) chase them at some point to drive them into a labyrinth of the tunnels. This should result in them only knowing where they are if they have a really good memory for directions and descriptions.
- Verticality, verticality, verticality. This is a megadungeon anyways, so it really should have more than a single level. Ceiling trapdoors dumping the party in already-visited rooms can make a mess of any player-drawn map. Underground it might be hard to detect that you're actually going down or up if the slopes are mild enough; so you might have them change levels without them knowing, or have them pass under or above another room. Changing levels combined with hidden passages gives nice strategic options when figured out, but can be used to make a mess of their sense of direction.
- Unwilling movement might be hard to include without teleports, but you can still use underground rivers, cracking floors and ceilings, uncontrollable elevators, sleeping gas traps and opponents seeking to capture and jail PCs.
- Also, have the environment change. Intelligent opponents might do a bit of quick masonry/ demolition jobs to add/ remove walls, but even some monsters might be smart enough to place a rock over the entrance to their pit when they leave. An encounter between warring factions can cover a room in a layer of blood and intestines. When you describe the gut-covered room to players, you can expect the reaction of "wait, have we actually been here?", especially if they got lost earlier. Then it is time for someone with medical skills to shine and deduce that this is all fresh-ish stuff, so maybe this is the place they know after all, just with a new coat of paint.
- A bit of an asshole thing to do is to ask which character is carrying the map around. If there's only one - have something set it on fire/ get it wet, or (somewhat milder, but still annoying) have an NPC steal it for later recovery. Overusing this might feel super cheap, though.

The natural reaction from players should be to start marking rooms they've been to with chalk/magic and perhaps even leave some advice for themselves for later, using ball bearings to detect inclines/declines and licking every wall looking for secret passages. This is great! All in all, if they are capable enough to make good maps, easily identify the room and be smart about the situation, they might never actually get lost. I'd advise against having opponents wipe their markings clean or making their tools suddenly ineffective - smart behaviour is to be appreciated.
 
Last edited:

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
For the basics, I don't know. But for the finer points, the author notes of http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0001.html (text at the bottom of the strip) can be a gold mine.

For example:
There are many times in a GM's life when the players will do something ridiculously stupid and reckless, which would lead to them getting killed if it happened in reality. At times like this, you throw them a lifeline. You offer them the chance to surrender gracefully and accept an alternative, non-lethal setback, that could lead to interesting situations and adventure in itself. At which point the players will blithely ignore it and charge ahead anyway.

And then you can let them have it.
Stellar advice, and prophetic description of how events will come to transpire.
 
Joined
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Give "Listen Up, You Primitive Screwheads!" a read. It's for Cyberpunk 2020, but it's full of good GMing advice that you can use in pretty much any game.
 

Lagi

Savant
Joined
Jul 19, 2015
Messages
726
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Desert
Tell me where is the best source of wisdom about how to be the best possible version of GM ?
16887.jpg


DMGR1 Campaign Sourcebook and Catacomb Guide is a good starting point. You can also look up relevant articles from Dragon Magazine, such as "Procedure and Style Tips for Good GMing" by Lewis Pulsipher in issue #75 (July 1983) or "Five Keys to DMing Success" by Mike Beeman in issue #80 (December 1980).

this book is quite nice (I hate AD&D, luckily there is nothing about this ancient game mechanics there), lots of good ideas/advice,
I dont agree with some of them f.ex.page 27 set the scene - The high poetry description are good in books, concise presentation are much better in game. Esp. where (in pnp RPG) is sooo many delays / waiting for your turn anyway.
and the dungeons at the end are great
 

Lagi

Savant
Joined
Jul 19, 2015
Messages
726
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Desert
Players hand-drawing their maps is a time-honored tradition and one that I would always use over the idea of some kind of a minimap you're suggesting. I think you might be missing another problem, by the way - while moving the overlay around, you'd inadvertently show some pieces of the map they have not seen yet.

...they need to come to this conclusion using both your descriptions and their drawings.
...

in general your post its lots of nice ideas. I just dont agree with the maps be draw by players base solely on GM description. I remember I try it at least once as player, Its creates lots of not funny miscommunication, that don't add anything good into the game.
pnp RPG are usually (the one that i play at least) burden with spending massive amount of time looking for some solutions (where to go, with him to speak, what to do....). This just increase the wasted game time.

Im curious how Snorkack idea would work out.
 

Snorkack

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Don't draw the map for them, just describe the rooms and corridors they're in. Make sure that you are not showing where they are, they need to come to this conclusion using both your descriptions and their drawings. This adds a nice element of uncertainty for the players, even if it usually doesn't do anything by itself.
Overall good & helpful post. I'm a bit hesitant regarding this method: every time the players get lost, there's the questioninthe room whether it is due to the bad mapping of the players, or due to ambiguous or misunderstood descriptions onthe DM's side.
 

Morkar Left

Guest
Tell me where is the best source of wisdom about how to be the best possible version of GM ?
Since the net is full of shit and journalism level of guidance, please point me into the right direction.
XOR
what are your golden advice to run a fun game that will not be a waste of everyone's time?

here is the best I find so far

this guy is quite on point

Your job as a gamemaster is basically entertainment. You are a good gamemaster when your group is having fun while playing. Which means cater to the needs of your game group. And game groups can be highly different in what they want. Sometimes the same group wants variation e.g. from some simple minded action comedy to e.g. hard scifi. Or even thhe type of rules used (simple rules or more simulating rules, combat focused gameplay or mainly storytelling).
 

Optimist

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My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
in general your post its lots of nice ideas. I just dont agree with the maps be draw by players base solely on GM description. I remember I try it at least once as player, Its creates lots of not funny miscommunication, that don't add anything good into the game.
pnp RPG are usually (the one that i play at least) burden with spending massive amount of time looking for some solutions (where to go, with him to speak, what to do....). This just increase the wasted game time.

I get where you're coming from, but I believe that proper descriptions (start from "you're entering a circular room about x feet in diameter. There are two doors, one in the northernmost part of the room, one at its 7th through which you just entered. A ladder seems to go through a trapdoor in the ceiling" and only afterward add in colorful adjectives), combined with spotting obvious mistakes (things the characters should have no problem noticing, like improper number of entryways, or cthonic geometry of the room) usually suffices. This is practical as well, you don't have to clamber over your GM screen over and over again, and the map feels more precious when it's hand-drawn.

I don't encourage misleading players as to how the rooms are constructed, but having the players draw the rooms and - more importantly - corridors, can lead to scaling issues, which can help play into the 'getting lost' angle Snorlack seemed to want to play.

Overall good & helpful post. I'm a bit hesitant regarding this method: every time the players get lost, there's the questioninthe room whether it is due to the bad mapping of the players, or due to ambiguous or misunderstood descriptions onthe DM's side.

Sure. As the DM you can see what your players are doodling. If you see that they misunderstand your descriptions by screwing with room/ corridor layout, if that's something that a character would notice just by looking around, it'd be a bad idea not to bring it to their attention. I'm not advising spouting some descriptions and then stonewalling them until they move on. Just give them enough rope to hand themselves.
 

Stormcrowfleet

Aeon & Star Interactive
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The way I run my players in megadungeon with regard to mapping is that I describe, they draw, I comment only if it's pertinent. Sometimes it's a matter of honest mistake, like they heard something else than I said etc. Running that way, without actually telling them what to draw and so on, they produce pretty good maps. Not 100% accurate, but navigable for them when they put the effort, and that's the goal of it IMO.
 

Snorkack

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I think I just found the answer to all my dungeoneering questions.

https://arkenforge.com

It's like an integrated mapping and adventuring tool. Costs 35$, has a 7 day trial and shitloads of free and nonfree assets.
Basically you can draw your dungeon beforehand in the editor. When you run the session, you need a second screen facing the players, this only shows what the players see. You can then move a player token around and have dynamic Fog of war, depending on line of sight. It's possible to manage split groups and rotate the map to add more confusion.

There's more - there's a large set of modular sounds that provide adequate ambience for every possible scene, from marketplace to dungeons, to deserts...
Also there's an encyclopedia/quest journal that seems to help you organize gm notes for your individual campaigns.

It's still in alpha and has some issues and "coming soons" at every other corner, but so far no crashes and I'm 100% sure I'll pay the 35 bucks once my trial period is over.
 

nyjsu

Educated
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I helped put crap in Monomyth
Might get some hate for this but I honestly think that most GMs should read Dungeon world. The game itself is just fine, but the book serves as a really good "how not to suck as a DM 101". Best example is the advice how to actually involve your players in your game, because your players really don't give a shit about your setting if they haven't participated in creating it. It also gives decent advice on how to run a relatively low-prep games which can be applied to most systems. The supplement Perilous wilds is also highly recommended for generating content on the fly. I run DW only at cons and as drunken one-shots but the advice that book has given me are invaluable.
 

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