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G2A Steam Key Reseller Drama Thread

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Infinitron, Jun 21, 2016.

  1. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...game-key-reselling-exposed-by-indie-developer

     
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  2. Mr. Pink Travelling Gourmand, Crab Specialist

    Mr. Pink
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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
    If true, they should sue g2a for what they lost + more.
     
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  3. Azrael the cat Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Azrael the cat
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    Not sure that there's an adequate causation chain that passes through g2a re the entire loss. But...they should certainy sue g2a for the loss of sales resulting from the reselling of fraudulently obtained game keys (it's the direct loss from the fraudulent charge-backs that doesn't seem to be adequately linked to g2a - you'd need to build a case that the individual fraudsters wouldn't have acted unless g2a was there for them to sell through, and that g2a ought to have known there was a risk of this happening under their current terms of use, and whilst that might all be true it seems like a very difficult case to mount).

    Yes, it brings up the old piracy argument of 'how do you know what % of the people buying fraudulently obtained game keys would have otherwise bought the game'. But courts (and insurance companies, for that matter) make those assessments all the time. They won't assume that each fraud was a lost sale, but they'll have no issue with drawing a very rough line and saying 'our best guess is x%' and giving that % payout.
     
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  4. laclongquan Arcane

    laclongquan
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    Problem is, lawyer is expensive. Do the compensation in case of win enough for the cost/time provided?
     
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  5. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
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    Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    Cause and effect. You rat out the rats, they gnaw at your toes.

    As for me, I've never used a site that offers any services of this kind...and I never will, by the looks of it.
     
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  6. Spectacle Arcane

    Spectacle
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    The root cause of this problem is the shitty payment processors like Visa and MasterCard who refuse to implement effective security to their payment solutions, instead leaving it to merchants to deal with the inevitable consequences of rampant fraud done with easily stolen credit card numbers.

    How the fuck is it possible to pay for something with just a number? It's ridiculous that there's more security for trading hats on Steam than to buy stuff with real money on the web. It's way past time that "credit cards" are replaces with some kind of cryptograhically signed payment solution that can give much greater assurance that it's actually the owner that's spending the money.
     
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  7. Dexter Arcane

    Dexter
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    [​IMG]

    Another developer whining and using copyright-logic to justify selling their games for pennies in Bundles.

    There's absolutely nothing wrong about what G2A is doing, neither about buying Retail games in like Thailand and reselling them in Europe pissing off publishers because they love outsourcing to Asia/India/Eastern Europe but don't want people to be able to acquire games at their local prices, nor about allowing people to sell unneeded keys. Could just aswell facilitate this kind of exchange on any forum like the Codex if say the begging was instead a selling thread.

    More interesting would be to know why they don't have a system to revoke specific keys if the payment bounces or Fraud protection as commonly used by many other platforms. My best guess though is that those are Humble Bundle keys or similar and the developer is just butthurt about choices made.

    Same developer was already :butthurt: in the past about :ehue: and :russia: doing what :ehue: and :russia: do: http://tinybuild.com/punch-club-has-been-pirated-over-1-million-times
     
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  8. Angthoron Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Angthoron
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    Ahhh, gotta love the indies. Same people will scream about freedom of expression, cry over overpriced software, talk about oppressed minorities, and at the same time try to recklessly penny-and-dime their products in every way possible, scream piracy and foul, and pull all sorts of shenanigans. Never even heard of Punch Club until now, and after looking it up, well, I can totally believe it was so popular that a key reseller site hanged up their payments with stolen credit cards. Yep! This is what happens every fucking time! It's not (sort-of against ToS) resold bundle keys! It's not products we've sold at huge discounts already! We're literally losing billions of dollars here guys.

    I don't really like key resellers, mind you, but in the end it runs down to the simple fact of regular outlets overpricing their shit by about 30-50%. Yeah I totally want to pay 20 dollars for another "pixel art" 5-hour indie. Absolutely.

    While at it, I'm sure play.com and others that sell boxed games cheaper than Steam's digital-only stuff at launch also uses a database of stolen credit cards.

    Fucking key reselling rings EXPOSED.
     
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  9. tormund Arcane

    tormund
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    AFAIK large part of popularity of these key reselling sites comes from the fact that, while countries like Russia, Ukraine or Brazil have pricing adjusted for their regions, for bunch of other eastern European and south American countries prices are still same as in US, or in Germany, Austria, etc for yuropean ones (which should equal 60 euros for average new AAA release) despite those countries having similar (or worse) average salaries and living standard as Ukraine or Brazil.
     
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  10. Jasede Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Jasede
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    Let me get this straight - they are complaining about a company buying those games in bulk when they are cheap on sale or in a bundle, then selling the keys at a higher price?

    Umm, excuse me, but isn't this how trading worked since the beginning of time? Being a merchant is about buying when it is cheap, patiently waiting, and then selling when the price is higher than what you paid for it. I see no wrongdoing here.
     
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  11. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
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    He's complaining, or at least claiming, that some people use stolen credit cards to buy as many keys as they can and then sell them to or on G2A:

    "I'd start seeing thousands of transactions, and our payment provider would shut us down within days," Nichiporchik said. "Moments later you'd see G2A being populated by cheap keys of games we had just sold on our shop."

    It's not something new either:

    http://blog.indiegamestand.com/featured-articles/steam-key-reselling-killing-little-guys/

    http://www.polygon.com/2015/2/9/800...ose-mysteriously-cheap-gray-market-game-codes

     
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  12. hivemind Guest

    hivemind
    imo people who use these second hand market-places for singleplayer non-denuvo games are autistic

    like why not just pirate ?

    either way you are giving basically no money to the developer and pirating is the cheapest choice if you base your game buying decisions entirely on getting the best price for your buck
     
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  13. Zdzisiu Arcane

    Zdzisiu
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    Yeah, people were complaining about shady key on G2A for quite some time now. But they are immensly popular since they have a sponsorship with a lot (Nearly all of the major) twitch streamers who get a small kickback from all purchases through G2A.

    Also, customers dont really give a fuck about the origin of the key. All that matters to the customers of G2A is the price and if the key works or not. Hell, if the key/game stops working/Is deleted from library after a few months when all the complaints and legal stuff is comming into effect? People will not give a fuck then because they probably already finished/abandoned the game and have 10 new ones.
     
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  14. pippin Guest

    pippin
    There's actually quite the number of youtubers using g2a affiliate links, and actively encouraging their audiences (mostly teens as we know) to buy games there.
    That's a more interesting case to focus on imo.
     
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  15. Excidium II Self-Ejected

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    How the hell it's the reseller's at fault in this?

    When you pay for the game you feel more obligated to finish it.
     
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  16. Dexter Arcane

    Dexter
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    They're basically complaining that Marketplace sellers on G2A are supposedly selling stolen keys. Supposedly, because this is the same horseshit you often hear from publishers as justification for banning valid keys from other regions because they don't like people in Western Europe or the U.S. buying cheap keys from abroad. It's not like it doesn't happen, but the truth is likely closer to what the other developer outlined above with the majority of keys being from bundles. It's also like complaining about Ebay or Amazon because some people using their Marketplace features are selling stolen goods, even though they respectively have no idea about it and no way of checking whether they are or not.

    How G2A works is they are selling Keys themselves like:
    https://www.g2a.com/the-witcher-3-wild-hunt-cd-key-gog-global.html
    https://www.g2a.com/the-witcher-3-wild-hunt-steam-cd-key-global.html

    The "G2A Selected offer" to the right is by G2A themselves and guaranteed to work, it's usually either retail keys acquired from lower price regions (Thailand, Brazil, Russia or whatever) and resold to Western markets or keys from Sales.

    There's also "Marketplace Sellers" if you look below, where basically anyone can resell keys, which is generally cheaper but you'll have to trust the seller.

    The most retarded thing about this is apparently that their shop doesn't have a way to link a CD Key to a bounced/fraudulent payment and they say they can't ban just these specific keys, the only reason why this would be is either stupidity or sheer incompetence/negligence.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2016
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  17. DwarvenFood Arcane Patron

    DwarvenFood
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    Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    This.

    Problem is the use of fraudulent CC's and not anything else. Also, fuck Punch Club.
     
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  18. Mozg Arcane

    Mozg
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    Is there not some system where you can cancel a key that's connected to a chargeback? It's not like you are gonna run out of copies. Seems like a Steam-end problem if the stolen credit card line isn't bullshit. Even if you can't cancel a redeemed key easily you could at least make sure that G2A's keys can "spoil", and if half their keys are duds they'll lose the legit-key-site cred they've accumulated.
     
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  19. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    You can cancel keys. For example, inXile Kickstarters allow you to swap an Early Access Steam copy for a GOG copy on release, which cancels your Steam key and removes the game from your library.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2016
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  20. Mozg Arcane

    Mozg
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    Maybe there's a problem associating one key with one particular purchase, so when you get the chargeback you don't know what key it bought?
     
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  21. Kutulu Magister Patron

    Kutulu
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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    Games are overpriced as fuck... I dont give 2 fucks about who hurts who financially if companies try to sell me their shit for 79$, 79$ for
    a fucking normal/not special edition of a game @amazon.de.... Honestly fuck them where- and whenever you can.
     
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  22. Mustawd Arcane

    Mustawd
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    Completely agree that this is a key/fraudulent cc thing. There's nothing wrong with reselling keys. I have a ton of indie shit keys I wish I could get rid of for a bit of $, and the reselling thing seems like a great way to do it.
     
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  23. ghostdog Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    ghostdog
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    Murky world of second hand trading exposed !

    It's unheard of ! Oh teh horror !

    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]

    shitty article, shitty thread.
     
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  24. The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
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    No such thing as public defenders outside of Brazil?
     
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  25. Mustawd Arcane

    Mustawd
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    You would be the plaintiff in this situation. Some lawyers will work on a % of future rewards, but I don't think punitive damages would apply here and a porion of $200k or so is probably not enough for a case that sounds like it would go nowhere.
     
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