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G2A Steam Key Reseller Drama Thread

Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
G2A has no responsibility to do anything, they provide a service to connect sellers with buyers.
The firm behind the controversial marketplace made several different attempts to defend itself, culminating in the promise of a key blocker. The proposed tool would enable developers to specify keys they do not want to be sold via G2A, marking them as either giveaway codes or review copies.
…Because that's not what developers want. Developers want customers to be completely barred from selling CDKeys no matter the origin — I'm glad G2A exposed their bullshit.
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,862
love all that retarded Olympics lately.
Nothing feels better than to buy key from reseller knowing some developer retard will rage about it.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,442
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
G2A fights back! https://www.g2a.com/news/latest/dev...ething-that-happened-before-g2a-even-existed/

Developer demands $300K from G2A for something that happened before G2A even existed

Selling keys on a marketplace which was yet to come into existence seems unreasonable at best, and yet Charlie’s tweet suggests something different:

Launched in 2014, G2A Marketplace was celebrating its 5th birthday this year. The said keys were allegedly stolen and sold before March 8, 2013 – 6 years ago. Charlie wrote: “We paid $30,000 to deal with credit card chargebacks because of G2A.” That’s just slander, and we expect him to at least edit his posts, if not straight up apologize.

However, if Charlie Cleveland would like us to hire a professional auditing company to check if the keys from before 2014 appeared on a non-existing marketplace, we encourage him to contact the G2A Direct team, as per the initial offer.

PS: This is what G2A.COM looked like at the beginning of 2013.

g2acom2013.png

Source

PS2: A bit of trivia for archeologists: before G2A Marketplace, there was a small retailer with a different name – go2arena. Its business model was totally different as well – it was a regular store, not an open marketplace. It didn’t have Natural Selection 2 in its offer.

PS3: The list of developers who signed up for the key-blocking tool was always meant to be public. If it wasn’t, there would be people saying: “G2A actually doesn’t want to create this tool, so they’re claiming the devs didn’t sign up at all! I’m 100000% sure there are thousands of developers who would like to use it!”

But... https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...wn-history-in-response-to-developer-complaint

G2A fudges own history in response to developer complaint
Key reselling marketplace claims it didn't exist in 2013 when chargebacks occurred, is contradicted by own website

G2A's main defense against a developer demanding money for fraudulent game keys it sold in 2013 is that it didn't start its key reselling business until 2014.

However, both web archives and the company's own website seem to indicate that the marketplace both existed and was already seeing numerous transactions that year.

This is the latest incident in a series of developer disputes with the marketplace, which recently culminated in G2A offering to "pay developers ten times the money they lost" on chargebacks from illegally-obtained keys, as long as the developers can prove the keys were indeed sold through G2A.

Earlier this week, Unknown Worlds founder Charlie Cleveland accused G2A of being responsible for his studio having to pay $30,000 in chargebacks in March of 2013 for 1,341 Natural Selection 2 Steam keys. The incident was written about on Engadget at the time it occurred, but without reference to G2A specifically.

Following that story, GamesIndustry.biz reached out to G2A for comment, and yesterday was sent an official blog post response saying that G2A couldn't possibly have been responsible for these chargebacks, as it "was yet to come into existence."

"Launched in 2014, G2A Marketplace was celebrating its 5th birthday this year," the post reads. "The said keys were allegedly stolen and sold before March 8, 2013 - 6 years ago. Charlie wrote: 'We paid $30,000 to deal with credit card chargebacks because of G2A.' That's just slander, and we expect him to at least edit his posts, if not straight up apologize.

"However, if Charlie Cleveland would like us to hire a professional auditing company to check if the keys from before 2014 appeared on a non-existing marketplace, we encourage him to contact the G2A Direct team, as per the initial offer."

The post also contains an image of "what G2A.COM looked like at the beginning of 2013," showing a generic "DOMAIN FOR SALE!" page.

However, upon further investigation, G2A's claim of not launching its marketplace until 2014 contradicts information found both in web archives and on its own website.

According to its own history, the company G2A itself was founded in 2010 with the aim of being an official reseller for AAA developers. After struggling to get developers on board, it launched an online marketplace to resell game keys, which has evolved into what G2A is today.

The company history doesn't give a founding date for G2A Marketplace, but web archives of G2A.com around the time in question indicate that it existed and was actively selling keys prior to 2014.

The "DOMAIN FOR SALE!" image shown in the blog post was last archived in December of 2012. In January of 2013, two months before the Engadget story, the domain appears to have been purchased, though nothing yet appears on the page. There are no other web archive saves of the site until June of 2013, where it appears as a fully-functional key reselling site with games such as Red Faction Armageddon, Anno 2070, Battlefield Bad Company 2, and Assassin's Creed Brotherhood for sale advertised on the site's front page.

We reached back out to G2A to ask about the discrepancy over the year of their founding, and received the following reply:

"As mentioned in our post, G2A Marketplace came to life in January 2014. Obviously the domain was bought months before that. We treat Wayback Machine rather like a fun tool, not a credible source.

"Either way, that doesn't change anything in absurdity of accusations."

The web archives are not the only source indicating that G2A Marketplace was founded prior to 2014, however. G2A's own Support Hub includes a paragraph that explicitly says the Marketplace launched in 2013, and by the end of the year had sold well over 100,000 keys.

"The number of buyers and sellers has been rapidly growing ever since the launch of the webpage in 2013," reads a response on the hub to an FAQ question asking how many people are using G2A. "That year there were 20 sellers and 100.000 buyers. In 2014 there were already 1.9 million buyers and 34 thousand sellers."

GamesIndustry.biz has once again reached out to G2A for further comment on this discrepancy.

Update: A G2A fact sheet on the company's website more specifically cites December of 2013 as the marketplace's start date and June 2013 as the launch date for G2A Goldmine, a program that rewards users for referring friends to make purchases on said marketplace. [h/t @fromcj on Twitter]
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,862
hahahahah

Update: Speaking to Kotaku, developer Charlie Cleveland has retracted his accusations that G2A was responsible for $30,000 of chargebacks on stolen keys for Natural Selection 2.

"It does appear that G2A is right," Cleveland said, referring to G2A's defense that its marketplace didn't exist when the chargebacks occurred. "They weren't the source of these original $30k keys. It doesn't LOOK like they were selling gray-market keys at the time we had all those chargebacks. But they've been doing it ever since."

Wait till they realize that there are 100 other stores like that or shock and horror that people even without those sites will still sell keys personally or via ebay or some other general fleamarket.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,442
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Latest drama: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...-software-settle-usd40-000-chargeback-dispute

G2A and Wube Software settle $40,000 chargeback dispute
Factorio developer "satisfied with the results" after marketplace operators conduct internal audit

Online games marketplace G2A has reached a settlement with the first -- and so far only -- developer to take up its offer of paying ten times the chargeback fees for any illegally obtained game keys sold through its site.

Wube Software, the Czech-based indie behind management title Factorio, responded to G2A's offer back in July 2019.

The two companies have worked together on an internal audit and found that 198 of the 321 codes Wube queried were sold through G2A. According to the press release, "both parties assumed that the remaining 123 illegitimate keys were sold via other marketplaces or online stores."

The 321 keys were sold between March and June 2016.

GamesIndustry.biz understands from Wube that each order was approximately $20, putting the potential chargeback fees for the 321 keys at $6,420 -- slightly lower than the $6,600 Wube initially estimated last summer.


Bartosz Skwarczek, G2A

The tenfold settlement will be based on the 198 keys found to be sold through G2A, making for a final payment of $39,600 to Wube Software, which the company tells us it has received.

The offer of 10x chargebacks followed the latest series of accusations against G2A from developers, who take issue with their codes being sold via its marketplace.

The debate over the site was triggered by No More Robots founder Mike Rose, who claimed it was better for gamers to pirate titles than buy from G2A since "devs don't see a penny either way."

Vlambeer co-founder Rami Ismail agreed, adding: "These sites cost us so much potential dev time in customer service, investigating fake key requests, figuring out credit card chargebacks, and more."

As the discourse escalated into a petition to stop G2A from allowing the sale of indie games, the marketplace responded with its 10x chargeback offer in an attempt to address these concerns.

Wube reached out to the G2A Direct team last summer, encouraged by the promise of an independent auditor handling the case. However, what was a crucial promise from G2A at first became problematic.

"[An independent auditor] was an important factor for us, because we wanted to have someone who was independent and can complete the audit to the satisfaction of both parties," G2A CEO Bartosz Skwarczek tells GamesIndustry.biz. "But at the end of the conversation with Wube, we decided that we could trust each other and we conducted this audit on our own."
Shortly after the original offer, PR boss Maceij Kuc told Polygon the firm hoped to work with the "big four" -- PricewaterhouseCoopers, Ernst & Young, KMPG and Deloitte.

The two parties did negotiate with some auditors, but G2A claims the companies they spoke to would not allow them to publicly declare the results. GamesIndustry.biz has reached out to these firms and the National Audit Office to enquire whether this is a standard policy, but has yet to receive a response.

The inability to disclose the details of the audit pushed G2A and Wube to seek alternative options.

"If we could not say the result of the audit, it would be of no use to us," a G2A spokesperson told us. "So we talked to Wube about it, and they agreed it didn't make sense, so that's why we agreed to openly collaborate on an audit between ourselves. It was not only provided by us but also by them. We wanted to be as transparent as possible."

Skwarczek emphasises that G2A was not aware of this limitation when it first offered an independent audit: "Our feeling was that developers would like to have this great, independent, top of the industry auditor. We were trying to anticipate what they would want. On the other side, we're open to every solution. If they say we don't need an independent auditor, we're open to that dialogue.

"We didn't know we would have to choose between an auditor and doing it publicly, but I believe [the latter] is good. I believe in transparency, and we hope people appreciate that."


G2A sellers were able to obtain keys for Factorio by abusing free giveaways and exploiting the system that sold the game direct through Wube's website

The two parties did make headway with one auditor but after long conversations over the details, G2A reports this company later said it was not able to disclose the results either.

"At this point it had been over six months with no progress, and we did not really care about the whole process, so it was up to them to determine another way to fulfill their promise," Wube's PR, community and support manager Scott Klonan tells us. "They asked if an internal audit was okay, and I said 'Yes, sure.'


Scott Klonan, Wube Software

"They produced quite a detailed report of the keys, who sold them, what dates and times they were sold. I thought they probably wouldn't fake it, especially since it's still over half of the keys we sent. We are satisfied with the results."

Overall, Skwarczek says the process is "something I'm genuinely proud of."

The findings still show that 61% of the illicit keys sold over the space of a couple of months were sold through G2A.

GamesIndustry.biz requested the total number of Factorio codes sold through the site to date, including those obtained legally, but G2A declined as it does not share individual games sales data.

During our interview, Skwarczek tried to present this in a broader data perspective.

"Data and facts massively confirmed what we were sure about -- that out of over 10 million transactions annually, we only have 198 [illegally obtained] keys sold through our site," he says. "That's like zero point zero zero zero something per cent. That's exactly what we wanted to prove, that this is a super safe and transparent platform."

He adds that even Amazon and eBay -- marketplaces G2A has previously compared itself to -- have a similarly small number of issues like this, and that it's "normal in every industry."

However, he did not address the fact that more than half the illicit codes in this audit were sold through his site, nor is his calculation accurate without data on how many Factorio keys have been sold there in total.

Lack of response has frequently been an issue for G2A. To date, Factorio remains the only studio to challenge the firm's offer of 10x chargebacks, and when G2A suggested a potential keyblocker tool for developers, only 19 companies registered interest.

Klonan acknowledges Wube's role in how G2A sellers were able to obtain codes for Factorio. These codes were purchased through the game's official website, which was previously less secure than the likes of Steam or Itch.io, although did give Wube detailed records of purchases and chargebacks it could compare with G2A's audit.

The company also offers a free Steam key with website purchases, many of which are "probably flipped on G2A", although as these are obtained legally it becomes harder to challenge these transactions.

Klonan notes that after Wube switched to using Humble's widget on its site and refraining from "giving out tons of keys for giveaways to dodgy, often fake, influencers," the fraudulent purchases "stopped completely."

"In the end, contacting G2A is treating a symptom of people stealing keys," he says. "The best way to combat that is to cut it at the source.

He adds: "For us, if the offer was not 10x the chargeback, and had some precedence setting for the rest of the game developers, I don't think we would have reached out. The amount of time it takes and administrative dealings to get this refund, it's probably not worth the monetary compensation if it was not 10x.

"G2A was helpful and we got to the end after all, but I don't think many developers will be in the same situation as us."

Time will tell whether the settlement has the positive impact on G2A's reputation that the marketplace hopes, or whether more developers will come forward in the hopes of a similar payment.

The 198 illegally obtained Factorio keys may be "zero point zero zero zero something per cent" of the site's 10 million annual transactions, but so far the only concrete conclusion is that more than half of the codes queried from a four-month period in 2016 were in fact sold through G2A.

https://www.g2a.com/news/latest/g2a-vows-to-pay-devs-10x-the-money-proven-to-be-lost-on-chargebacks/

[Updated] G2A vows to pay devs 10x the money proven to be lost on chargebacks

KEEPING OUR PROMISE – UPDATE – 05/20/2020

Prague-based Wube Software became the only developer to take G2A up on this limited-time offer to the gaming developer community in July 2019, after discovering that illegitimate keys to its construction and management simulation game Factorio had been sold online.

Wube reported to G2A a list of 321 keys that it believed had been sold online illegitimately. After assessing a number of independent auditing companies and finding none that would meet our agreed requirements, Wube and G2A decided that G2A should proceed with an internal investigation. This investigation confirmed that 198 of Wube’s keys had been sold via its Marketplace between March 2016 – June 2016. It is assumed by both parties that the remaining 123 illegitimate keys were sold via other online marketplaces or other online stores.

Per the terms of the pledge made in the blog post here, G2A has agreed to compensate Wube ten times the value of any bank-initiated refund costs that Factorio paid in relation to each of the 198 illegitimate keys sold via its Marketplace.

When we launched this offer, we wanted to send a clear message to the gaming community that fraud hurts all parties. As we spell out in this blog, fraud directly hurts individuals who buy illegitimate keys, it hurts gaming developers and it ultimately hurts G2A because we are forced – as the transaction facilitator – to cover costs related to the sale. We wanted to amplify that message and capture people’s attention, so pledged to compensate developers ten times the value of any chargeback fees they incurred, despite the fact that we had nothing to with the illegal acquisition of these keys.

The gaming developer community has our solidarity and sympathies on this issue, and we want to continue building bridges. With our main point being made, about the seriousness of fraud in the industry, from now on we will compensate developers the full value of any chargeback fees they incurred for any keys sold via G2A Marketplace, if they are able to prove they were illegitimate.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-05-21-g2a-admits-it-sold-stolen-game-keys

G2A admits it sold stolen game keys
UPDATE: "Totally committed to tackling any incidents of fraud."

UPDATE 1.30pm UK: G2A has forwarded the following statement intended to show clearer contrition than in the blog post it published last night. It does not include the words apology or sorry.

"We would be the first to admit that, in our formative years as a company, we took too long to recognise that a small number of individuals were abusing our Marketplace," a G2A spokesperson told Eurogamer. "However, the criticism we received was the wake-up call we needed, and over the last years we have been totally committed to tackling any incidents of fraud on our site. Today we [sic] some of the most sophisticated proprietary anti-fraud AI technology of any online marketplace for digital products."

ORIGINAL STORY 12.30pm UK: After years of shrugging off claims it sold stolen keys, grey-market reseller G2A has admitted to shifting copies which were "illegally obtained".

The disclosure comes as part of a backfired plan to prove its innocence, which has also cost the company around $40,000.

Last year, G2A attempted to dampen longstanding concerns it did not give a damn where the mysteriously-cheap keys it sold actually came from. It laid out a limited-time offer designed to grab headlines after a round of bad publicity - saying it would pay game developers 10 times their costs if it was proven G2A sold stolen keys for a particular game.

The vast majority of developers ignored the offer. But Factorio developer Wube Software took G2A at its word.

Nearly a full year later, G2A has come forward to say... yes, after looking into things, it had indeed sold keys for Factorio which were stolen. 198 of them, in fact.

In a blog update titled "Keeping our promise", G2A said it had held an internal investigation (the original plan was for it to be independent) and found the majority of suspect Factorio keys reported to it by Wube Software had been shifted by its own site.

Per the terms of the offer, G2A will now pay Wube Software $39,600.

"When we launched this offer, we wanted to send a clear message to the gaming community that fraud hurts all parties," G2A stated. "As we spell out in this blog, fraud directly hurts individuals who buy illegitimate keys, it hurts gaming developers and it ultimately hurts G2A because we are forced - as the transaction facilitator - to cover costs related to the sale.

"We wanted to amplify that message and capture people's attention, so pledged to compensate developers 10 times the value of any chargeback fees they incurred, despite the fact that we had nothing to with the illegal acquisition of these keys.

"The gaming developer community has our solidarity and sympathies on this issue, and we want to continue building bridges. With our main point being made, about the seriousness of fraud in the industry, from now on we will compensate developers the full value of any chargeback fees they incurred for any keys sold via G2A Marketplace, if they are able to prove they were illegitimate."

G2A's update offers no plan to stop stolen keys being sold on its marketplace. There's no suggestion of re-opening this offer to other developers for an investigation into other game keys. There's no apology of any kind.
 
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Morkar Left

Guest
I bought around 2 or 3 games from G2A. Prices were cheaper than normal, around a big Steam sale discount. My credit card got recently charged from G2A with 1 $ something with an "inactivity charge" because I didn't buy anything from them for a longer period of time. I guess that is their way of giving negative social credit points? I'm glad I got a new credit card in the meantime. Won't buy anything else from them anymore.
 

Aemar

Arcane
Joined
Aug 18, 2018
Messages
6,067
Stop selling your fucking game in bundles for a dime a dozen and then complain about it being resold on dindu places like G2A et co. Problem solved.
 
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