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Google Stadia - "a game streaming service for everyone"

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by toro, Mar 13, 2019.

  1. cosmicray Educated

    cosmicray
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    240fps is only possible if Google forces developers to it. You can have any fps you want on consoles, but it's always competing with picture quality, which is why they still have 30 fps games. But I'm only saying that speed of light, while detrimental to cloud gaming, it could be dealt with and might not be a deal breaker. Console gamers endured GTA4's 200ms lag. The price of subscription will determine how much of lag is "good enough". I quit playing Dark Souls on 360, because fuck that 20fps shit(which is why Blighttown was so scary). It was unbearable, but I'm sure some decided to soldier on.
     
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  2. baud Savant

    baud
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    I used Onlive a little like 7 years ago (for a class presentation on cloud services; only time I ever played video game for school!), from what I remember the input lag was not much of a bother then, I played a little of Darksiders 2, the Witcher 2 and a racing game. The racing game was not fun, but I didn't had any issue with Darksiders 2.
    The main issue was more the resolution going up and down as the available bandwidth changed.

    I think Google has the infrastructure, with their loads of data-centers, to reduce the latency to a minimum to most of the population and the technical competences to build something solid technically.
    In addition to its subscription price, it will live and die by the game it will offer: if it's the same calibre of mobile shovelware on their play store, I'm pretty sure most people won't see the point. Also the design of games tailor-made for it will most likely be garbage to take into account the lag and the payement being time-based. And I'm not a fan of such subscription model where ownership is even more diluted than with Steam.
     
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  3. Venser Savant

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    I don't really like the idea of Netflix style streaming service for games but I can see it's potential when it comes to VR. One of the main obstacles to experiencing high end VR gaming is the cost of owning a powerful gaming PC. But Stadia eliminates that requirement and all you'd need is headset capable of playing high res video stream and good internet connection. They say that at launch Stadia will run the newest games on 4K HDR on 60FPS and they have plans to upscale it to 8K on 120FPS in the future. So with Oculus Go style headset we could get amazing looking VR games for the price of the headset only and no need to fuck around with cables. The only drawback are the potential latency problems.
     
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  4. tritosine2k Scholar

    tritosine2k
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    Why not add a third quixotism while you're at it, let's go all the way. Star Citizen ?
     
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  5. HansDampf Prophet

    HansDampf
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    Latency wouldn't just be a drawback for VR, it would make it outright impossible for streaming services.
     
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  6. tritosine2k Scholar

    tritosine2k
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    VR bigwigs said they won't deal with >20ms OVERALL latency because "muh presence" and established 20ms maximum "motion to photon " latency. The only way streaming works with near eye displays if textures are streamed instead framebuffer, and thats pretty hard to do for multiple reasons (remember how static idtech5 was) . See nv "cloudlight" paper, even that small subset of texture streaming is hard, and thats not dealing with visibility just tries to offload shading workload.
     
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  7. Gerrard Arcane

    Gerrard
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    You're forgetting that consolefags play at 30FPS which already has noticeable input lag but think it's fine, they won't even notice it.

    Show me where you get 100ms ping at 10000 km.
     
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  8. Jimmious Arcane Patron

    Jimmious
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    I'm a bit baffled by the negative reaction in here. The idea is amazing. It has the potential to obliterate all gaming hardware out there.
    Not to mention how it would "free" developers from the constraints of designing software for specific HW requirements and so on.

    It all depends on how the network code will fare obviously - but it's Google. I'm pretty sure they will work it out eventually.
    I can easily see another huge monopoly coming

    *To clarify, I'm not seeing my self being a fan of the service, I like my keyboard. But the idea is great and has crazy potential of success, admittedly
     
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  9. unfairlight ヽ(✿゚▽゚)ノ Patron

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    You're right, there is potential via having almost no hardware restrictions at all, but the price to pay for it is far too high and it will mean games will be lost to time forever.
     
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  10. Jimmious Arcane Patron

    Jimmious
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    Is it high? You pay what, 50 bucks for the controller and then a subscription of 10-15 bucks per month? If that means access to a big library of games it's a good offer for a lot of people that won't bother with hardware or buying games etc
     
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  11. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

    DalekFlay
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    There is no doubt this will appeal to the masses a great deal. There's no doubt that corporations won't benefit to an absurdly high degree as well, which means (like streaming video) it is destined to succeed and be the number one thing. Cheaper and more convenient are holy rites etched on the side of the capitalist success doctrine. That doesn't mean assholes like myself more concerned with quality and ownership won't bitch out it for decades and buy game downloads/discs whenever we can though.
     
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  12. unfairlight ヽ(✿゚▽゚)ノ Patron

    unfairlight
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    I don't mean "price" as in the cost of the service, I mean it as the death of all the rights you have right now storing the game data on your own computer. Data dies, with Stadia at the whim of any developer, Google themselves or because of minor licensing issues, the game may become unplayable for eternity. It's all the negatives of always online amplified tenfold, since there isn't even the potential for pirates cracking the game and making it playable offline.
     
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  13. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

    DalekFlay
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    Yeah but no one cares.

    I mean, we care, but in the grand scheme of things no one really cares. At all. There will be some Kotaku article someday about X game being pulled from everywhere and no longer being playable and people in the comments will say "that's a shame this sucks" and then in 12 hours there will be ten more articles about other things and no one plays old games so it'll be forgotten and no one will care. MMOs shutting down already offers a preview of this.
     
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  14. cosmicray Educated

    cosmicray
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    200km/ms * 50ms = 10000km
    I meant that it's the lower limit theoretically. So the speed of light is not streaming's biggest problem.
     
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  15. Dexter Arcane

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    It's hilarious to me how the technologically illiterate believe that this works like some sort of magic fairy dust or whatever. VR Streaming for games is literally impossible (it's already bad enough when you're trying Wireless directly from your PC). You can move your head in real-time in VR and need ~90FPS and seamless rendering with instant response time for it to not feel off. This is not possible with a service that takes your input (from moving your head or pressing sticks/buttons on your controller), sends them over to some data center far away, tells its local GPU cluster to render the new image(s), then sends that data to a high-speed encoder and needs to send the data back to you to display and react again. It's a physical impossibility for VR. Even normal video-streaming is still troublesome in parts, with seconds long lags of live transmissions, disconnects, glitches and the likes and that's a lot easier to accomplish. Even on flat screen gaming you have to reckon with up to half a second of lag, compression artifacts (blocking and banding) that make the image look ugly and other problems.

    I remember these same discussions of "hey it's not that bad, hey it doesn't look that bad", this is the future and whatnot back when this shit popped up first, and they're going to run into the very same problems that they did back then, because they haven't discovered a way to magically encode and transfer data instantly since then as far as I know: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/onlive-died-today.45644/page-11#post-1210837
     
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  16. Jimmious Arcane Patron

    Jimmious
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    Honestly, no one really cares about that any more. Or to phrase it better, few people do. Plus with games being a service and not a purchase, you don't really need to care. You pay a subscription and you have access to X titles as long as you do that.
    Yeah it won't be property any more but that's how the internet will be in general in a few years
     
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  17. unfairlight ヽ(✿゚▽゚)ノ Patron

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    The future beings with you. Stand against it actively and maybe one day another crash will happen and games will return to being niche with little mass market appeal. I don't like subscription services and I use none since I like having control over data, I intend to keep it that way and just play archived DOS games until eternity should everything go over to the cloud.
     
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  18. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

    DalekFlay
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    Principled stands are great and all, but often times you're just pissing into the wind and end up covered in urine. I ranted and raved about consumer rights and control for years when Steam was getting big and no one cared then, no one cares now, no one will care about this either. By "no one" I of course mean the vast majority won't, but they control things. Downloads will go on a while, just like discs for movies and music are going on a while, but it'll get more and more niche until it's gone. There isn't a debate or war to be had, it's over, they won. It is what it is.

    Luckily most new games are shit, online services where this doesn't matter much anyway. The retro platformers and RPGs and such are the ones that will keep getting downloads for a long time, so whatevs. Even the singleplayer big corporate titles will eventually be streaming exclusives though, just you wait.
     
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  19. unfairlight ヽ(✿゚▽゚)ノ Patron

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    The average retard is a retard. I know, that isn't news. There will always be a niche circle who does care about the value of the medium, and will condense themselves together since cloud gaming services considered their game too niche. Cloud gaming is going to be a battle of datacentres and the only real competitors are going to be Google, Microsoft and Amazon Web Services. No one else has a single chance to catch up to them. It also doesn't help that latency will ALWAYS be worse than a real PC running it, and with the most popular games in the world right now being twitchy competitive shooters I don't think the best case scenario 100ms input delay is going to be acceptable, even half that is going to be awful for mouse input.
     
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  20. Dexter Arcane

    Dexter
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    I believe you people are getting a bit ahead of yourselves, given that you don't know if this "service" will still exist 5 years from now and Steam still has like ~70% of the Digital Distribution market on PC and console companies won't give up their preeminence either.
     
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  21. baud Savant

    baud
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    Sony already has service like this one and Microsoft has just announced its own; so even if Google kill Stadia down the line, we can still be headed in that direction

    Another issue is how the system (latency) and payement to devs (devs are paid depending on how long their game are paid) will result in pretty shitty game design.
     
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  22. Ismaul Arcane Patron

    Ismaul
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    Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
    In a world where Stadia becomes the main way to play games, you only have to wait until people get a bit older and nostalgia kicks in. It only takes someone thinking "Hey I'd like to replay an older game" for them to see the limits of Stadia. And then Stadia will look like a huge mistake.

    Everyone cares about their childhood and their memories.
     
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  23. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

    DalekFlay
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    The streaming shift with video and audio has happened incredibly fast. Once services like this have some exclusives and let Joe Schmoe play a high-end game on his TV without expensive hardware it'll start taking off like a rocket, same as other services have. That doesn't mean downloads/discs won't be available for some things for a long time, but where everything media is headed isn't a mystery.

    Sure, but that's more going to be a drive to re-release old shit or make shit similar to it. When licensing prevents that it's not gonna happen, nostalgia hasn't made a Goldeneye re-release or Star Wars Galaxies revival any more possible. People, by any large, take what they can get and don't sweat the rest. They'll watch youtube videos or whatever if they can't play it. They'll make a sad tweet about it and move on with their day. They're not gonna say "oh my, this technology which has taken over all forms of media all across the world is suddenly very suspect because I can't play X licensed game anymore!" No... no one cares that much, outside the passionate niche market corporations barely give two fucks about.
     
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  24. Lutte Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Lutte
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    Not input lag, but people already put up with bullshitty gameplay like this due to internet latency issues on games with larger amount of players :


    I don't believe the large masses playing those so-called 'twitchy' games are highly judgemental with that sort of thing. If anything, Stradia, while introducing a form of input latency for everyone, would have the potential to make what you see on the screen be closer to what actually happens by running everything, server and player clients, in a LAN.
    Most of the popular online shooters have dogshit hit detection. The closest thing to acceptable among the mainstream games is CS:GO but that game has other issues of its own.
    Heck need I remind you one of the most popular FPS series, the CoD, had PEER TO PEER hosting rather than dedicated servers? Same for Halo. Some of the CoD started going back to dedicated servers but basically the only people who care enough to make it a breaking issue is a fraction of the PC user base, and console gamers never cared. If you ever gave a try playing a P2P style FPS I can guarantee the latency issues felt during the game that break hit detection are worse than anything game streaming services like GFNow introduce to your input lag.

    You are vastly overestimating the segment of gamers who care. Online shooters have long lost any semblance of being truly competitive since arena shooters died.
    Games like Fortnite, Titanfall, CoD or Battlefield are not the paragon of what would be impossible to market on these things. At best 10% of their playerbase would bitch and the rest would still play it there.

    I used to play online shooters, I don't even care about them anymore. The genre lost me aeons ago and it's not streaming that killed it.
     
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  25. abija Liturgist

    abija
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    Most of that lag can be compensated. You can't ameliorate input lag, just design games around it. It's also added on top of it since if you want minimum latency for the stream, the game mp servers won't be in the same datacenters (think russian vs uk players, or us east vs west coast).
     
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