KickStarter Grim Dawn

I can see the point about insufficient window-dressing, but I actually really like some of the stuff in those areas, like the Mountain Deeps. I liked the variety in between Twin falls and Homestead, Act 1 is very same-y.

 

Everything is same-y, that's the problem. Once you've seen one area you've seen them all, all they offer is a palette swap. GD doesn't manage to use its own setting very well, defaulting to swamps, open fields, medieval ruins, caves and forests. The interesting stuff feels unfinished, like the Necropolis and the Void. Once you've been into one Void map, you've been to them all, literally. It needs more stuff to make the areas stand out and not be so drab and pointless.

 

I do not see them like that at all. I like the levels for the most part. I am not a big fan of the Asterkarn mountains but otherwise I am fine with the environments.
I also do not see how they are "empty" especially when you compare them to the competition like PoE and D3.

How is that any different from other games of that type if you view it in such an extreme?
D1? 4 times the same randomized dungeons with different palettes alongside a randomized selection of side quests. 6 times with the expansion.
D2? The same as in D1 except the boss maps being the same all the time and no randomized side quests.
PoE? The same as GD the campaign having fixed maps as well and mapping in endgame reuses the same maps over and over.
D3? The same as GD except for minor inconsequential variations of the maps during campaign and rifts just reuse the same maps over and over.
Want me to continue? I could also make comparisons to Torchlight 1+2 and Restricted Area (vomit) if you like.

Also how is everything samey? The ruins of Burrwitch sure look a lot different than the Arkovian Undercity, Askartan mountains, or the Necropolis. The new areas are also different compared to the old ones.
In fact Burrwitch village or Darkvale village have many details you never see in other games like in D2 or PoE.

So what is your point? Does GD lack a desert area that badly? Because that is basically the only type of map it is lacking compared to TL, PoE and D2/D3.
I cannot agree on any point. Nothing feels "unfinished" to me. In fact it is more elaborate and detailed than any other game of its kind.

 

Aren't PoE and D3's maps randomly generated? That's the difference. Not to mention they are inferior games. I thought the whole point of a custom map is to add stuff to it, not feel randomly generated, but worse because the layout is always the same. Maybe that's why the game has so much content, they don't really spend all that much time on a map because there's nothing in them. That has always been my major complaint with GD, but I think that's tied to them not using the setting to its full potential. The Malmouth slums feel like a real city, though, with winding paths and multiple routes. I'll see what they've done after that. Some maps are optional, though, so the game isn't completely linear, D2 has 2 quests that aren't mandatory, so GD is much better in this regard.

 

No they are not. The main campaigns have the same maps which have some minor variations which are not even on the same level as GDs which changes the roadblocks every time you start the game anew. Well ok some parts of PoE are randomized but not to the same extent as D2 so you could say it is a weird hybrid. Also is of little to no matter whether a level feels "samey" or "empty or not.

 

I felt like some of the new void maps did something different, although there was still some of that sameyness after a while. Possibly that's in order to allow more possibilities as to where the randomly placed blockages go that make the levels a tiny bit different each time?

I thought in general that the newest content was better. The dungeons added before the add-on all had environmental hazards, for example, and the add-on has those plants you think are dead but aren't, and the city with lots of narrow paths and overhead walkways, and then

Show Spoiler Hide Spoiler

the new base you establish (first time in the game to basically build a new base from nothing, complete with quests to get the various extra people like blacksmith/rare goods.

So they seem to be trying to give the world more meaning beyond palette swap. Agree it's still limited and at times the environmental hazards were just irritating (I hate that slith dungeon so much), but it's a step in the right direction. If all their next game/expansion was more like Gloomwald/Ugdenbog/Malmouth slums I'd be a happy man.

 

Since I just saw your stealth edit - it doesn't matter what other, inferior games do. This is not a dick-measuring competition, it's not about being slightly better than the rest of the garbage, it should stand on its own. The maps ARE empty and palette swapped in the base game. Since I'm not the only person to point this out, it's not even hard to notice. The game is quite good for an ARPG, that's why other things start popping out more, like the maps.

 

OK, so I cannot get over my obsession with Death Knight.

Physical/Internal Trauma focused Death Knight with cadence and 100% Weapon Pool skills. every default attack is a WPS strike, every 3rd attack is a cadence bumper hit. Geared more or less like a pure soldier. Devotions focus on resistance reduction and a couple of weapon damage procs/defensive procs.

1H+Shield DK. decent OA. mostly high resistances. some defensive skills for damage absorbtion etc. Offense is Cadence and WPS.

http://www.grimtools.com/calc/w26MLa8N

Edit: Build v2
Significantly shifted the devotions so that all 4 wps have weapon% damage procs.
shifted around the augments and components a bit for the resists
http://www.grimtools.com/calc/62avMLkV

 

TQ looked closer than GD to what I would call a handcrafted arpg world, especially Greece, and the bosses. IRL mythology comes with it's advantages I guess.

There's also Van Helsing although I don't actually remember it's maps that well.

 

TQ was even more linear than GD especially early on. The thing I like about TQ over GD is that all maps are just one zone you got loading times between acts only.

Diablo 1, Diablo 2 and PoE are by no means inferior. D3 is utterly mediocre and TL feels weird to me but that's about it.
This also dodges the question how exactly they and many other games, not just these, are any different? What is more I could even go so far and say the same thing about many other games not just games of this genre?

 

Why is it good that GD isn't different than the rest? Yes, its maps are as empty and featureless as the rest, wohooo.

 

This is similar to an idea that I've had lingering in my head for Death Knight. Gear synergy right now sucks, so the best you can do is use Seals of Might and that Gladiator's Distinction belt to convert 50% Aether to Phys, and 25% Vitality to Phys with full Warborn, and focusing on Cadence + Soul Harvest. The flat Phys you get from Spectral Binding / Wrath's conversion should be pretty significant. But all that Bleed damage you've got on your gear feels wasted since you don't have Blade Arc leveled, it's a damn fine burst damage ability.

Even with those changes, there's really no reason to use a Death Knight build over a generic Phys / Bleed Witchblade, or even a Tactician. Both of them have a significant heal, bonus resists, and RR that the Necro is lacking. The only thing Necro has the others doesn't is Mark of Torment, which has too much of a cooldown for its duration to be very reliable imo. When (if) they add a Phys / Vit Heavy set for Death Knights it might be competitive. It's bumming me out because I have an Edge of Death sitting in my Stash that won't see the light of day 'till it gets improved.

 

Mark of Torment can use a buff, yeah. 5 seconds is too low for its cooldown, but it's a good, unique skill otherwise. I'm pretty sure they'll keep adding more stuff, or change existing ones, so they just have to get to the Death Knight.

 

This is my recent take on the whole Blade Arc + death knight theme (vitality + chaos damage). You convert the extra damage you get from Aether skills, Chaos and Physical to Vitality.

Damage leaves alot to be desired despite doing 30-40k on a non-transmute blade arc hit but overall theme is kept though I barely play games for Character Theme catering since I'm more of a not for fun/"is it viable?" kind of guy. Should be good for running story content nonetheless but I haven't tried it for Ultimate Expansion.

Someone did a very interesting build around Mirror and/or Mark of Torment on a 100% uptime. It's as OP as the Phantasmal Blades of old IMHO.

EDIT: I linked a blank grimcalc build.

 

Link is broken.

 

I edited it after a few minutes since tools was down and realized I linked a blank one instead. My bad.

 

Nice! Finally a death knight who is not a knockoff soldier.

Fuck you crate entertainment for not having a decent Death knight set.

 

I got interested into trying the expansion... and... I remember why I gave up on Grim Dawn last time. Grim Dawn is pretty cool on some places, I liked the whole story of the aetherials infiltrating the Empire, their actions made sense on the setting, like they possessing the warden of Burwitch for having a big supply of bodies, I liked how the bandits double down on their sociopathy to the point of betraying humanity to get some scraps from the aetherials.

I liked how the aetherials decided to corrupt trolls and wildlife, using them as shock troops, I liked the whole story of old Arkovia, honestly, all this stuff could be good material for a real RPG some day, unfortunately, Grim Dawn is an ARPG. I think the pacing of the game unfortunately isn't that great, leading to burn out before you even finish the normal mode. You fight the Warden as the first real boss and the fight sucks, despite the cool lore behind, then you fight Daniel Crowley, another boss with a very cool backstory with a really by the numbers fight with nothing special, then it is a fucking LONG time for you to get to the next bosses and the aetherial amalgamation and the Cthulhu reject cultist boss and again, they are so so fights but with zero interesting lore behind them this time, the game only goes downhill when you get to the Necropolis.

I know, it is true that PoE and Diablo 3 make alot of asset re-use as well, but those games are alot more polished than Grim Dawn on a visual, animation and sound level, you guys talk alot about theorycrafting and how theorycrafting is all cool and superior on Grim Dawn, but theorycrafting isn't everything, you will use the same abilities for most of the game and kill thousands of enemies with them, they need to feel good, and most of the abilities on Grim Dawn are passives and many of the actives are underwhelming as fuck in terms of animations and effects. I tried playing a Demolitionist once and the quality of animation and effects on the explosions were disappointing. How a singleplayer game on 2017 doesn't allow for permanent or at least long lasting explosion marks with gore when this could be done on the Myth series so long ago? What is the fun of explosions if the enemies only fall on the ground and disappear like magic, even Diablo I had better death animations.

Let's say I have a ability that adds lighting damage to my sword, I don't only want a sword that does more damage but that can fry enemies to a crisp with it. Even Diablo I, when you used lighting nova, you had the feeling of using a dangerous electric spell with the cool crisping of electricity every time you used it and all enemies had cool and satisfying death animations and sound that were cathartic.

Another thing, where is the gore on Grim Dawn? I know that THQ fucked them up forcing them to make a kid friendly game on Titan Quest but they didn't have the same obligation this time, and still the game is gore free, the most I saw were enemies exploding but conveniently leaving no bodies and blood behind, it is really unsatisfying to kill enemies for them to just disappear right afterwards.

I feel I'm playing a bare bones, cargo cult, Diablo clone on a cool setting, that is it. They had the opportunity to do some crazy shit like a more polished Din's Curse, that would be truly awesome, for example but they gone full Diablo cargo cult without the money or know how, I dunno, Grim Dawn maybe has more options for theory crafting than the competition, I didn't play the game enough to get to know if this is true, but it is kinda of a moot point when you burn out of the game so fast.

 

There is gore and blood. A lot of it in fact. Check the options menu for extra gore. You can also set corpse persistency to however long you want, so they don't have to disappear by magic. The death animations are stupid, yes, but that's because there aren't any. I also don't like the ragdoll physics the corpses have, but what can you do.

 

Like Lacrymas said, definitely check your settings. Every time I use Blade Arc enemies explode in blood and leave a gigantic blood splatter behind, not unlike Rorschach in Watch Men. Unlike Lacrymas though, I enjoy ragdoll physics a lot. Especially when you get blasted and it sends your corpse flying too. Makes the sting and aggravation of death a little less painful when you can chuckle about it.

 

Port Valbury (the actual dungeon, not the outskirts) is a really cool area and the story collected in the notes is pretty cool as well. I died at the last boss and need to use another Skeleton Key to try again (and clear the whole area, which is huge), but it's a lot better than what I've seen in Malmouth so far. Two thumbs up.

 

Ironically, Port Valbury isn't part of the expansion, it was a content patch somewhere down the line for the base game.

 

i dont own any of the dlc. anyone can recommend an item independant melee build that can facetank instead of kiting all the time?

 

Warder is one of the best starting builds. You pop down a wendigo then just lifesteal/heal.

Level as a cadence build or a caster.

 

This really is such a stupid comment. Not only are you not even able to clearly define why or how they are empty, because they are not, but also fail to recognize that it is damn hard to make any improvements with the money, time and manpower they have. This is not a AAA team. This is a iirc 12 man team which has created a great game. There are for sure criticism to be made but what you come up with is utter nonsense.
For one this game is incredibly detailed. Things like abandoned fire camps, ruined caravans, etc. are all over the place. Villages like Burrwitch or Darkvale are almost fully explorable unlike in its compatriots where many houses are just there for the sake of being there. GD is vastly superior in that regard compared to TQ where houses for the most part are just a nicely dressed block. The insides of the houses in GD by contrast are lovingly designed with hand placed furniture, carpets, etc. You can clearly make out different buildings like villas, apothecaries, bath house, inns, etc. They also make sense to a functional degree for the most part.
So yeah, GD is already different. Far more detailed than even PoE.

And "featureless"? What the fuck does that even mean?


This entire argument is pure bullshit. Arguing like you I can make the same claim about games like BG (just flat maps with stuff hurr durr), Deus Ex (just dystopian landscape herp derp), System Shock (space station lolz), etc.

Somehow I keep getting the impression that you play Restricted Area and not Grim Dawn.

Path of Exile? "Polished animations"? Are you fucking joking? One of the reasons I do not like PoE as much as GD is because of the floaty melee combat where you see the same fucking animation for your chosen melee skill over and over and over and the only thing that changes is the speed which gets so ridiculous that you get like what 30 attacks a second in double strike with multi strike?
The caster animations are terrible and the walking animations are atrocious, it almost looks like the are reverse moonwalking.
You can make an argument that spell effects look better but that is only partially true. Also PoE is all about one button builds for the most part. Or let us say two button build, main damage skill + movement skill. There are few exceptions at least but that does not change the fact that it is all about chosing one skill for your 6-link and everything else is build around it, preferably with as much automatism as possible like Curses with Blasphemy gem and binding IC to Cwdt.
And then of course the idiotic "skill gem" system does not make a lick of sense but hey at least it is highly customizable though respeccing is a complete pita.

As to D3, duh they have a huge team and budget in comparison. Then again the level of detail shown in GD surpasses that of D3 by a country mile. This is evident by the mere fact almost every building you see can actually be explored, be that in civilized areas or on enemy territory and these houses make fucking sense. D3 on the other hand? I have only one word to say for that comparison: Caldeum.
They reuse their assets "a lot"? Yeah no kidding their endgame is nothing but rehashing their assets over and over and over with just endless grinding until the scaling is too much for any gear in the game. Funny enough the textures are god awful and the colorful and cartoon style of the portraits are a grating contrast to the pretty gorey environments. It becomes even more grating by the fucking fact that every entrance to a cave is glowing huge bright blue or yellow for fuck know what reason.
Also D3 has deterioated so hard that you are not naturally chosing character->skills->items anymore but everything is now sets->skills->character.
And on top of that cherry is the fact that you cannot dodge many auto attack animations in D3 once the animation started because Blizzderp in their infinite wisdom were afraid that players could overcome gear gaps with skill.
Please defend this utter mediocrity of a game more please.

And you do not see gore? What are you using as a weapon, a tooth pick? I smash trash mobs into clouds of blood and gore on a regular basis on all my characters and if not that they fly all over the place.

You compare it to D1? You are aware that the enemies had the exact same death animations completely independent from what hit them, be that axe, bow or spell?
Comparing it to D1 is utterly stupid though. It offers a fraction of the content Grim Dawn has. The only area in which it can beat GD is in terms of atmosphere but it does that to all other Hack&Slash game anyway sans the Hive area in the expansion wich is fucking atrocious.