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Grimoire vs Wiz 7 and others.

JarlFrank

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Jasede said:
Yes I tried, but it runs a bit too quickly and I'd be interested in the fan-fixes regardless. It seems like this MoK patch is for the German version only, though, which I don't own. [The only RPGs I played in German are RoA 1-3, Amberstar/moon/Albion and Gothic. And what a fine German it was.]

True, the too fast running was a problem I encountered too. I wonder if my version is German or not, bought it off ebay. It's the UK version though, I guess, so the German patch wouldn't work.
 

theverybigslayer

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Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
I am nearly done with M&M 1. I just need to reach level 13 to reach -that door-, so now I am grinding Red Dragons. My least favourite part of the game, to be honest.

I can't wait to play 2, it looks better on every regard. And then 3, 4&5, 6... it'll be heavan!

Thanks for the links.
 

Andhaira

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Intsall the Xeen series (3,4,5 I think) play thema ll, combine them and then play World of Xeen)

You will around 80+ yrs old when you finish.

And by then grimoire will have been released, so you can play that!
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
2 and 3 already look like they'll take 100 hours each; 4&5 (Worlds of Xeen) way more.

Guys, this is when games had 100 hours of things to do without it being Oblivion "roleplaying".
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Elwro said:
Jasede said:
I just acquired MM6 but Google won't help me find those MoK patches, Elwro. Help!
1. Go here.
2. Download everything there - the last number in the link (not in the file name) is the track number.
3. Arrange the tracks properly and burn an audio CD from them.
4. Have the CD in the drive everytime you play. The game will recognize it (even if it's RW, which was what I did) and vary the music according to the location you're in.

Uh, but MoK patches? Don't know what they are.

I don't have a CD-burner. Is there any way to get the music to run without using one?
 

SkeleTony

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Glad someone was able to point you to the patches Jasede. Word of warning about M&M 7: the great game Arcomage' that you can play in taverns(after you find the deck/solve that quest for the missing player) still cause occasional game crashes/lock-ups even after MoK's patch so save you game before entering any taverns to play an Arcomage match.

Also if you need ANY sort of information about the M&M 7-9 games then go directly to Flamestryke's site(which also hosts the various patches including MoK's patch).
 

cardtrick

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Just guessing, but I don't see why you couldn't use CD burning software to create a disk image, then mount that with Daemon Tools. Probably the first legal use of Daemon Tools ever.
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Heh Skele, I wanna figure out most stuff on my own in MM6-8. I am using spoilers for 2 and 3 though, and maybe 4-5, because I do not have the 300 hours each game would take without. Man. it would we SO awesome to be a kid again and have that time. Or an unemployed old guy.

And I am already doing that, cardtrick, but it doesn't work... hmm, maybe I need to fiddle around some more.
 

SkeleTony

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SkeleTony said:
Wiz 7 was truly great for it's time and certainly massive/long but it has flaws. Some of these flaws are somewhat excusable given the age of the game(the 'pop-up' battles for example, even though there were other first person crpgs...SHAREWARE games even, who did not have this flaw and were released roughly the same time)

Design decision. How do you imagine a phased tactical (as far as it is possible in FPV) combat without popup battles? Ranged attacks, sequence of turns before engagement? Cases in point: M&M3-5. Button-mashing.


Bullshit. WTF are you even talking about here?! Have you not ever played games like Wizardry 8, M&M 6-9 and most first person CRPGs released since Wizardry 7?! Pop-up battles were mostly a necessary evil in the old days because of various technical reasons that made seeing enemies approach from a distance a wish-dream for most but, again there were shareware first person CRPGs by small teams of developers (such as Moraff) who did this without pop-up battles.

and some, such as the nonsensical usage of words like "Legerdemain" and "Kirijutsu"

Duh, while the choice of words is strange, it doesn't take much effort to memorize them, does it?

That depends but is all but irrelevant to my point. Bradley was perhaps trying to be different or maybe he was just overly enthusiastic about Jap-crap but it makes no sense to use such terms instead of more sensible terms like "Critical strike", "Disarm traps/lockpicking/etc.

and the convoluted auto-map feature, are just dumb.

What's wrong with mapping skill?

Nothing at all. What I was referring to was having to go do a whole dungeon to gain enough experience to be able to get the 'map kit' (and find the fucking thing) so that you will have some form of automap.

But in any case Wizardry 8, as should be expected of a game released almost ten years later, made several improvements over Wiz 7.

...like switching to limited area-based world and getting rid of any kind of consciousness on behalf of NPCs?

No (and WTF are you even talking about with this "consciousness of NPCs' nonsense?). I mean like tactical formations, seeing enemies coming (and being able to run and hide or prepare or whatever), far better character development, more engaging world-setting, etc.

Totally different game than Might & Magic 6 though. You might as well be comparing Wiz 8 to Super Mario Bros. for all the sense that THAT comparison made.

First person 3d engine - check.

Like Doom/Quake/Myst...


Crawling TB combat with dozens of opponents taking their turns moving around

Yeah they are the same genre and sub-genre but this hardly makes them both similar RPGs. Again, you might as well have accused W8 of being a copy of (name any turn-based first person CRPG here).


World cut apart on separate areas,...

You seem to have some weird issue with CRPGs where 'zoning' is a thing. I cannot understand what your issue is so I will leave that alone.



drastically different in enemy strength and often outright inaccessible until unlocked by the plot - check.

WTF am I reading here?!



Static NPCs as quest signposts - check.

?!?

Seriously what is your exact contention here. You seem to be desperately trying to find some sort of similarities regardless of how cosmetic or inconsequential.



What else?

Wizardry 8 had more number-crunching than MM6-7, and in place of ugly rendered sprites even uglier 3d models for monsters. That's all difference.

W8 had better looking monsters than W7 though (and I am a huge fan and advocate of 2D over 3D art). As for number crunching...I am not sure what your issue is here (again) or why this might be a bad thing.

...ah, it also featured level scaling and constant respawn.

One of the very few flaws of W8 but not one shared by M&M 6-8 so...?

For the record: aside of appaling linearity and outrageously cliched plot, what makes Wizards & Warriors worse or different from Wiz8, by the way?

1) It is like Furry-heaven. W8 had two leftover furries from Bradley's Wizardry run but W&W is just full of this anime-crap. I may hated elves and hobbits and shit but I would rather be forced to play elves than to be paid to play furries.

2) Bad user interface.

3) Bugs (many of them IIRC).
 

mondblut

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SkeleTony said:
Wiz 7 was truly great for it's time and certainly massive/long but it has flaws. Some of these flaws are somewhat excusable given the age of the game(the 'pop-up' battles for example, even though there were other first person crpgs...SHAREWARE games even, who did not have this flaw and were released roughly the same time)

Design decision. How do you imagine a phased tactical (as far as it is possible in FPV) combat without popup battles? Ranged attacks, sequence of turns before engagement? Cases in point: M&M3-5. Button-mashing.


Bullshit. WTF are you even talking about here?! Have you not ever played games like Wizardry 8, M&M 6-9 and most first person CRPGs released since Wizardry 7?! Pop-up battles were mostly a necessary evil in the old days because of various technical reasons that made seeing enemies approach from a distance a wish-dream for most but, again there were shareware first person CRPGs by small teams of developers (such as Moraff) who did this without pop-up battles.

and some, such as the nonsensical usage of words like "Legerdemain" and "Kirijutsu"

Duh, while the choice of words is strange, it doesn't take much effort to memorize them, does it?

That depends but is all but irrelevant to my point. Bradley was perhaps trying to be different or maybe he was just overly enthusiastic about Jap-crap but it makes no sense to use such terms instead of more sensible terms like "Critical strike", "Disarm traps/lockpicking/etc.

and the convoluted auto-map feature, are just dumb.

What's wrong with mapping skill?

Nothing at all. What I was referring to was having to go do a whole dungeon to gain enough experience to be able to get the 'map kit' (and find the fucking thing) so that you will have some form of automap.

But in any case Wizardry 8, as should be expected of a game released almost ten years later, made several improvements over Wiz 7.

...like switching to limited area-based world and getting rid of any kind of consciousness on behalf of NPCs?

No (and WTF are you even talking about with this "consciousness of NPCs' nonsense?). I mean like tactical formations, seeing enemies coming (and being able to run and hide or prepare or whatever), far better character development, more engaging world-setting, etc.

Totally different game than Might & Magic 6 though. You might as well be comparing Wiz 8 to Super Mario Bros. for all the sense that THAT comparison made.

First person 3d engine - check.

Like Doom/Quake/Myst...


Crawling TB combat with dozens of opponents taking their turns moving around

Yeah they are the same genre and sub-genre but this hardly makes them both similar RPGs. Again, you might as well have accused W8 of being a copy of (name any turn-based first person CRPG here).


World cut apart on separate areas,...

You seem to have some weird issue with CRPGs where 'zoning' is a thing. I cannot understand what your issue is so I will leave that alone.



drastically different in enemy strength and often outright inaccessible until unlocked by the plot - check.

WTF am I reading here?!



Static NPCs as quest signposts - check.

?!?

Seriously what is your exact contention here. You seem to be desperately trying to find some sort of similarities regardless of how cosmetic or inconsequential.



What else?

Wizardry 8 had more number-crunching than MM6-7, and in place of ugly rendered sprites even uglier 3d models for monsters. That's all difference.

W8 had better looking monsters than W7 though (and I am a huge fan and advocate of 2D over 3D art). As for number crunching...I am not sure what your issue is here (again) or why this might be a bad thing.

...ah, it also featured level scaling and constant respawn.

One of the very few flaws of W8 but not one shared by M&M 6-8 so...?

For the record: aside of appaling linearity and outrageously cliched plot, what makes Wizards & Warriors worse or different from Wiz8, by the way?

1) It is like Furry-heaven. W8 had two leftover furries from Bradley's Wizardry run but W&W is just full of this anime-crap. I may hated elves and hobbits and shit but I would rather be forced to play elves than to be paid to play furries.

2) Bad user interface.

3) Bugs (many of them IIRC).

It took you 10 years to come with a V2? Should have refreshed yourself with V1 first, whose microissues have been already addressed:
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/grimoire-vs-wiz-7-and-others.21832/#post-456535
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/grimoire-vs-wiz-7-and-others.21832/#post-456647
 

SkeleTony

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Was a mistake. Got an alert that said you responded to something in some thread and did not realize until after I posted that this was an ancient thread I had already responded to.
 

luj1

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Grimoire stands toe to toe with Wizardry 7. In certain aspects even surpassing it slightly.
 
Last edited:

Doctor Sbaitso

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Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands
I have lurked here for years before beginning to post (I felt I was too old then; it's worse now).

That said, reading though this thread, the codex was better then than it is now, overrun with millennials and meme lemmings. And the din! The din of retards is deafening.
 

Tarrant

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Before the foul necromancy animating this thread wears off and it's ancient posts fade back into the codex graveyard from whence it came...

...I must add: Wizardry 5 doesn't get enough love, if only for the dungeon design alone. At the risk of being shit post rated en masse, no other dungeon crawler before or since has had such an intricate maze with such expansive floors -- it totally did away with the old ~19x~19y model, which did wonders for the excitement of exploration. I'm looking forward to Grimoire at some point, but I suspect wiz 5 still has it beat in that department.

Also, nostalgia: I still remember the first time I actually found the Loon. ;x
 

Viata

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Wiz 5 has the best dungeon design for the old Wizardries. It's just that either people love 7/8(guess I'm one of the few wizardry fans that find 6 the best of these 3) or the earlier entries(1 or 4) given that it was their first Wizardries(1 is my favorite, for example).
 

Lady_Error

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My favorites are 6/7 and I'm planning to give 5 a spin - the Super Famicom version seems to be the best choice, since I can't into wireframe dungeons.
 

Iznaliu

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...I must add: Wizardry 5 doesn't get enough love, if only for the dungeon design alone. At the risk of being shit post rated en masse, no other dungeon crawler before or since has had such an intricate maze with such expansive floors -- it totally did away with the old ~19x~19y model, which did wonders for the excitement of exploration. I'm looking forward to Grimoire at some point, but I suspect wiz 5 still has it beat in that department.

What about the adventure game elements? that the CRPG Addict complained about?
 
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My favorites are 6/7 and I'm planning to give 5 a spin - the Super Famicom version seems to be the best choice, since I can't into wireframe dungeons.
The SFC version is my preferred way to play Wiz 5. It's probably the best out of the classic (1-3) Wizardry formula.

You could also play the PSX version from New Age of Llylgamyn, but that has polygonal dungeons that haven't aged as well as the tilesets in the SNES version. The interface is better, though, and it can be switched to English even though it was only released in Japan.
 

cvv

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Codex+ Now Streaming!
Fucking necromancers man, I brofisted three comments before noticing they're 10 years old. Some people....
 

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