Halp! MIDI music in older games, how does it work?

[J_C]

Unfortunately, when I started gaming back in the day, the MIDI era was already at its end, so I didn't have a PC which had dedicated soundcard for the best sounding MIDI music for games like Betrayal at Krondor, or Monkey Island. When I later played those games, I just listened them as they were in the Windows MIDI player (or whatsitcalled). I thought that is how they sounded back in the day.

But, I fiddled around with Betrayal at Krondor (first playthrough) yesterday, and because it has some issues with the music, I had to look after that midi stuff. And to my biggest surprise, it seems that these games don't sound like the original, thanks to the windows midi player. For Krondor, I had to download a soundfont to make it similar, although it is still not 100% like the original. But better than nothing I guess.

But does this mean that all the older games with midi I played earlier sounded worse than it should be? And now that I installed this new soundfont, all of them sounds better?

Is there anything I can do to improve the sound further in these games?

 

[SCO]

Dosbox + mt32 emulator.

silly.

 

[J_C]

Dosbox + mt32 emulator.

silly.

This emulator is better than the downloaded soundfonts?

 

[SCO]

Jaesun please blast this infidel with knowledge

You can also just go to youtube and search for 'mt32 music'

 

[made]

Obligatory Amiga > MT-32 post.

 

[SCO]

It's not only the mt32 (although it's often the best option in the right period or company), dosbox also emulates some other common devices, which were what the games were made to play on, not the windows midi soundfont. There is no, one, true configuration.

Example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPEDAR7qWRI&index=5&list=PLB324754A61AB3F1B
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE_uAO3Fz5M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTTiQiEKjwU

The metallic sounds of adlib can be a asset for the right tunes.

 

[made]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE_uAO3Fz5M

Just what I'm talking about. The PC stuff usually sounds to me like a bunch of random, disjointed instruments thrown together.

Utopia on Amiga:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y6r0m3-ZAs[/QUOTE]

 

[SCO]

I know, i also had a amiga.

Here it is on the mt32
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ4gMCg1ZgE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLxKcEKfMgo (poor adlib)
Inferior as you say, but if you look at sierra games things look different.

 

[J_C]

I'm getting more and more confused. :S

 

[St. Toxic]

Meni, midi, mici.

 

[made]

I'm getting more and more confused. :S

I'm starting to think you might not be Matt Barton after all.

 

[J_C]

I'm starting to think you might not be Matt Barton after all.

I don't know where do you get that feeling from.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Data comes in, music comes out.

You can't explain that.

 

[Gord]

I'm getting more and more confused. :S

My 2ct.: forget about "sounding like the original". Depends too much on the original configuration, anyway.
Exception: for Dos games that offer Roland, get a DosBox build with build-in MT32 support and acquire the respective roms (e.g. it can be done legally by buying an used Roland and reading-out the roms; I'm sure you can find other ways to acquire them).
Alternatively install some driver that makes it possible to use soundfonts (which you apparently already have done) and get one that sounds good to you and works well with the game. If you don't care too much about the genuine music experience, this should give the best quality midi music. Works only well for those games that have midi music + separate sound effects (e.g. from SoundBlaster), though.
Those that have Roland support used it for both - and that won't work with soundfonts, you will need a Roland emulator.

 

[Jaesun]

But does this mean that all the older games with midi I played earlier sounded worse than it should be? And now that I installed this new soundfont, all of them sounds better?

What you need to understand is every single game with a MIDI soundtrack were written for a specific MIDI sound module. So some were written specifically for a Roland MT-32 and some for a Roland Sound Canvas and some for General MIDI. Thus some games soundtracks sound like complete shit.

Windows has a built in Sound Canvas (which is also General MIDI as well). It does NOT include the "extra sounds" that are on a REAL Sound Canvas. So some games that use the "extra" sounds from the Sound Canvas may at time sound like shit, or play some odd sound.

As for Sound Fonts an emulation I don't know shit about that, because I physically own 2 MT-32's and a Sound Canvas. And the MIDI soundtracks I hear when playing games is GLORIOUS.

 

[J_C]

What you need to understand is every single game with a MIDI soundtrack were written for a specific MIDI sound module. So some were written specifically for a Roland MT-32 and some for a Roland Sound Canvas and some for General MIDI. Thus some games soundtracks sound like complete shit.

Windows has a built in Sound Canvas (which is also General MIDI as well). It does NOT include the "extra sounds" that are on a REAL Sound Canvas. So some games that use the "extra" sounds from the Sound Canvas may at time sound like shit, or play some odd sound.

As for Sound Fonts an emulation I don't know shit about that, because I physically own 2 MT-32's and a Sound Canvas. And the MIDI soundtracks I hear when playing games is GLORIOUS.

How can I check if a game was written for an MT32 or Sound Canvas or General Midi? Are they listed in the readme file? (Assuming that I can't google it)

acquire the respective roms (e.g. it can be done legally by buying an used Roland and reading-out the roms; I'm sure you can find other ways to acquire them).

Unfortunately I couldn't find these ROMs anywhere on the internet. And I don't have the money for buying a Roland. What I don't get if every game has a different ROM, and you can remove these ROMs from the MT32 unit, that how can you remove a ROM from the unit, if the game in question was released AFTER the production of that specific unit. Either I'm missing something here, or I'm dumb. Or both. Probably both.

Maybe Jaesun could read out these ROMs from his machine and distribute them.

 

[ed2d2]

How can I check if a game was written for an MT32 or Sound Canvas or General Midi?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MT-32-compatible_computer_games

Or just check the setup/setsound utility that comes with the game.

Also for General Midi, apart from soundfonts there are software synthesizers like the Yamaha S-YXG50 for Win9x/XP. Or General Midi VST modules for Win7 or later. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWIzlpUQe3Q

 

[Gord]

Unfortunately I couldn't find these ROMs anywhere on the internet. And I don't have the money for buying a Roland. What I don't get if every game has a different ROM, and you can remove these ROMs from the MT32 unit, that how can you remove a ROM from the unit, if the game in question was released AFTER the production of that specific unit. Either I'm missing something here, or I'm dumb. Or both. Probably both.

Well, the thing with those roms is that afaik they are still copyrighted, meaning that legally acquiring them means either going the hardware route or finding them available for sale from some licensed reseller (don't now about that option, however, but I think there was one at some time). Of course it seems to happen that people find them for free on some sites, now and then, but that's up to you...

About your other question: I'm no expert on the matter, but the roms simply contain the information on the set of instruments and sound effects. It is set up similarly to a midi system. When a game wants to play a sound, it accesses the respective instrument. In addition to normal midi, Roland offered certain effects, afaik, both in form of sound effects that could directly be accessed from one of the memory banks similar to the instruments and in form of effects that could be additionally applied to the different instruments.

So since a game with Roland support just uses the specific instruments and effects of the Roland system's standard, you only need the rom from one of the Roland systems.

 

[Jaesun]

How can I check if a game was written for an MT32 or Sound Canvas or General Midi? Are they listed in the readme file? (Assuming that I can't google it)

Yes usually the readme will say. But a good basic rule is to follow this:

Go to the games configuration screen. It will then usually have an option to select sound or music.

If it has an option for MT-32 or LAPC1 (they basically are the same thing), Soundblaster, Another generic older sound card: Use the MT-32 option IF you have MT-32 emulation. Otherwise use Soundblaster.

If it has an option for MT-32 OR Sound Canvas (or General MIDI): Use Sound Canvas (it has much better instrument sounds than the MT-32). Windows has the Sound Canvas built into it.

Maybe Jaesun could read out these ROMs from his machine and distribute them.

The only connection between my sound modules and the PC is a MIDI IN/OUT cable. You cannot access the ROM's via a MIDI cable. You have to physically take the ROM's out and place them into a ROM/EPROM reader to download the software from it.

 

[spekkio]

Unfortunately I couldn't find these ROMs anywhere on the internet.

Took me like 10 seconds to find them. PM send.

 

[J_C]

Took me like 10 seconds to find them. PM send.

Thanks. I will check this out. Although if it is true that every game has a different ROM, than I don't think this one ROM will be enough. But thanks again.

Edit: Actually it works. :D I'm not sure yet that it is the correct sound, and I set up everything correctly, but the emulator is definitely working.

 

[Great Deceiver]

Early Sierra SCI games have the best MT-32 soundtracks ever, IMO.



It's actually mindboggling that I used to play these back in the day on PC speakers and had no idea they could sound like this.

 

[J_C]

I've done a comparison video about 3 different MIDI sounds regarding BaK:

Each segment is 1 minute long. The Microsoft one is pretty shit, but the SC-55 soundfont, although being different than the original, sounds really good. I think the MUNT is a pretty good emulation, especially if you compare to an original MT-32 BaK sound:

 

[Rhuantavan]

The Microsoft version doesn't sound bad. I find it to sound the closest to the CD version of the game. BaK was written on a sound canvas, so you should probably go with that. I have a real SC-55 unit and it sounds quite a bit better than this sound font alone.

 

[J_C]

The Microsoft version doesn't sound bad. I find it to sound the closest to the CD version of the game. BaK was written on a sound canvas, so you should probably go with that. I have a real SC-55 unit and it sounds quite a bit better than this sound font alone.

Well "bad" was a little strong, but it was lacking for me.

But basicly sound canvas=Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth?