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In Progress Hannibal: Rome and Carthage in the Second Punic War

Gondolin

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New front in southern Italy or bigger army in northern Italy? Which is better and why? Discuss!
 

DakaSha

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Turn 4 – 215 BC – Planning
"Stop showing us plans and kill the Romans!"


Hannibal advises the senate to reinforce Italy. This may be a bit riskier but it is also the quickest way to end this war.



Those fat fucks…

Hannibal could have opted to pull some strings before sending his advice but decided it was not worth the loss of prestige (aka play the senate influence card). All options are currently acceptable, including the reinforcement of Spain which is, given, under threat by Gracchus. If we reinforce Spain, we also have the possibility of reinforcing Italy from there in the future. Overall it is not to bad. Still, the senate needs to learn to trust Hannibros advice. They also skimped on funds for both recruits and commands.

Assholes.



Still recognizing the need for a larger navy, the generals authorize the building of a single squadron. This not only increases the strength of our (pitiful) navy, but also allows us to ferry 5 troops this campaign phase, exactly the number we have stationed in Utica. And seeing that the majority of those troops are Spanish, they are surely itching to kick Gracchus’ ass out of Spain

As such, Himilco, stationed in Carthage, and waiting for his chance at glory has devised a simple reinforcement plan for Spain



Himilco will ferry his army to New Carthage and combine with the forces there. From there he will head to Emporion and lay siege to the city.

To prevent Gracchus from slipping away by sea, the Carthaginian fleet will be placed off shore of Spain. He may still attempt to flee but we will have a chance at interception.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Once again Hannibal has the toughest decisions to make, and he has been drawing up some plans for his next campaign season



Each plan is designated a color and has an objective.

Green:
Objective: Reinforce Hannibal with the units that were recruited in Pisa last year. All plans incorporate this.

Red
Objective: Plow through Italy and capture Bruttium as fast as possible.

I personally consider Bruttium the most attractive province on the map at the moment, with a great choke point, access to both the province containing Rome, and Apulia Calabria, the potential for a whopping three units per turn, and the ability to reliably evade pitched battles if need be. There are also 2 Roman villas on the way.

This would be accomplished by moving into Latium Campania, possibly destroying he villas, using an extended march option, storming Consentia and then laying siege to Rhegium

The obvious drawback to this is that we leave northern Italy to the Romans. I do not welcome the idea but I do not think it is ‘as bad’ as it may seem (Honestly I don’t think you are meant to hold everything). They would waste time and units taking back the cities which have now grown to almost full militia capacity.

Also it requires the use of an extended march card or risk attrition





(Keep in mind that I am not retaking this pic every time. The recruitment pools are not necessarily what it says when I post this shit)

Orange/Yellow
Objective: Create a deadlock and force Scipio to fight on the field, or lose out on forming the massive army he has the potential to create

By moving into Umbria Samnium and remaining camped on the field, we could essentially shut down the whole province. It is currently the most dangerous area on the map in respect to pure force size, however its forces are separated. By sitting on the field we make it impossible for Scipio who is sitting in Corfinium, to make use of the troops in Ancona or Asculum. If he wants those troops, he must fight. We also remain the dominant force in northern Italy if we follow this plan

Yellow is a variant in which we capture Luceria before making camp in field. This is simply to gain some momentum (by taking a small objective) and to create a little bit of a stepping stone for the small force in Apulia Calabria.

I like the ‘idea’ behind this plan but it relies on Scipio being stupid, otherwise we just waste our time. He is apparently prone to stupid mistakes



But Im not sure he is this stupid. He already avoided us last year.

Purple
Objective: Kill Scipio

(Note: This should lead through Umbria Samnium so as to avoid the use of an extended march/attrition. I fucked up, it would work the same way though)

This is basically the gambit. Move in and attack Scipio directly. He and his army can not flee from a city battle. If we could pull this off with few losses it would be great. The largest army in Italy dead + one of the better generals owned.

The downside is obviously the fact that we would be storming a city and that could not only cost us a lot of troops, but could, potentially, end in disaster. We don’t exactly have a large troop advantage. It is only a minor city though.

We do have this card to soften up Scipio



Regardless, this is some risky shit (with potential to be game changing I think)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are of course other options, but I’m done drawing arrows before hearing some thoughts.

Here is our total force, including the troops in Pisa





Christ, I'm a nerd.
 

Malakal

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Senate has followed the advice of Lucius not Romanus an influential merchant who is totally not a Roman spy and has the best fate of Carthage in mind obviously! But this situation can be salvaged and even forged into a strong attack if played out correctly, granted it slows our advance in Italy right now. We should move troops from Africa to Iberia, combine them with our army there, kill Romans and retake the city they took then march with whatever is left to Italy in order to bring a second competent army and a new general that can recruit in our provinces there.

As for Bruttium while it looks tasty I'm fairly sure it will run our of troops in pool after one turn and wont be able to sustain 3 units per turn recruitment for long. It says so in the region description. And I am not sure if we will get more out of recruitment that we would lose in sieges. Then there is the issue of leaving behind a big Roman army.

Therefore I opt for baiting Scipio into battle in Umbria while capturing whatever its possible without much losses right now. Roman army looks extremely fearsome if its combined - 16 units total! Cant have that as it would be the end for us. Lack of reinforcements from Africa again hits here...
 

SCO

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capture Luceria before making camp in field

He'll probably just move back into rome no?

Kill that fucker in spain and ferry those troops!
If i was the roman consul i'd probably be moving my navy to spain right now...

I prefer to kill Scipio

Is there another roman general in that region to recruit if you control both passes through the mountains? I guess they can always force march through the mountains like Fabius did.

It would be nice to see where the roman generals are in the cities.
 

DakaSha

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capture Luceria before making camp in field

He'll probably just move back into rome no?

Kill that fucker in spain and ferry those troops!
If i was the roman consul i'd probably be moving my navy to spain right now...

I prefer to kill Scipio

Is there another roman general in that region to recruit if you control both passes through the mountains? I guess they can always force march through the mountains like Fabius did.

It would be nice to see where the roman generals are in the cities.

You make a valid point about scipio moving back into rome if i make camp in umbria.
Roman generals are denoted by the underscores
 

Erebus

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Apparently, defeating roman armies can convince some italian cities of joining your side (historically, Hannibal actively tried to get the italian cities to renounce their alliances with Rome, but it didn't work well enough).

Let's kick Scipio's butt and see if it works again.
 

Gondolin

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Orange/Yellow as a response that's neither here nor there. Losing northern Italy means losing Genua. I'd rather avoid that. We need to get the Spanish troops.
 

SCO

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Do you get generalship combat bonuses from city battles if you're the attacker or is everything nullified?
 

Trash

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Don't try to kill Scipio directly in the field. I tried it in my last game with an army roughly the size of his and he simply stayed in camp. Denying me a battle and also locking me in place. Now that you've got him cornered in a city though it may be worth the gamble. However I found that on hard the city battles are very unreliable. Hannibal with 12 troops against a puny 2 militia has quite often cost me upwards of three units. Several stormings of stronger cities have cost me entire armies.

Again, the Romans frustrating your attempt at battle and cities being hard to storm is highly frustrating but also historical and a mechanic that really makes the game hard. Planwise I'd say Orange/Yellow seems best and capable of bringing you the most with the smallest risk attached. Then again, you really are doing way better than I ever did so feel free to see me as another fat senator sitting in the sidelines sprouting advice.
 

Gondolin

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However I found that on hard the city battles are very unreliable. Hannibal with 12 troops against a puny 2 militia has quite often cost me upwards of three units. Several stormings of stronger cities have cost me entire armies.

Yeah. There's no way we can storm everything in Umbria and I, Senatorus Fatus Fatus, advise against trying to kill Scipio in Corfinum.
 

SCO

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It's kill him there or try to kill him with his massive reinforcements in rome 3-5 turns later (if you're lucky). Which is better and why?
 

Malakal

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Yes the main issue is that we CAN'T wait as Rome is growing stronger by the turn. Right now they only have two armies but imagine playing cat and mouse with 3-4 armies roaming the Mediterranean. And all that with senate deciding where you can move. Its impossible once Rome starts rolling this way.
 

Trash

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Plus do make sure Scipio is in that town if you decide you want to kill him. In my last two games for some reasons Roman generals were not in the towns where they should be while their armies where there. Either I didn't pay enough attention or the game 'teleports' them occasionally on the harder settings.
 

DakaSha

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Do you get generalship combat bonuses from city battles if you're the attacker or is everything nullified?


During city battles generals essentially become non entities for both sides. So no. You get no bonuses (which is a large reason why they are so risky)

Plus do make sure Scipio is in that town if you decide you want to kill him. In my last two games for some reasons Roman generals were not in the towns where they should be while their armies where there. Either I didn't pay enough attention or the game 'teleports' them occasionally on the harder settings.

My guess is that you either weren't paying attention or there is some weird glitch. I haven't seen that yet, but this is only my second game.


So i got a shitload of feedback.. and its all split between every possible option lol. At least it isn't a cookie cutter situation
 

SCO

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Crossed-lines voice recognition.

The future is now.

ps: kill Cato the Censor if you find him, i don't like his attitude.
 

DakaSha

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So for the record: I'm still meaning to update this.. I just honestly havent decided on my next course of action. So... I'm sitting in front of the game, still deliberating. Pretty sure ill update tonight though :salute:
 

corvus

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I like the Bruttium blitz plan, it's audacious, and you can test the mechanics by seeing what Rome does when faced with a Hannibal going where he pleases burning down villas. The other plan would require you to attack Scipio on his terms and hoping he'll oblige you with battle.
 

Malakal

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Guys I just had a revelation (maybe). Can you recruit units when under siege or do you need a general in the field? Because from what I can tell you have to be in the field/city and not under siege. Therefore besieging Scipio eliminates the recruitment in Umbria anyway. And if we manage to lock Romans into cities we can outproduce them in the long run.
 

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