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Helherron - a very addictive Nahlakh-like game

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by evil rasta, Feb 11, 2004.

  1. TOME Cuckmaster General

    TOME
    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,820
    At what point can you kill wandering merchants? I'm more than halfway through and easily clearing dungeons using quick combat, but merchants just rape me at this point.

    Couple annoying things I would like to point out.
    1.numbad enter doesn't work when searching/looting barrels. I have one hand pressing s to search and y to yes (if there is only item to pick), and one hand on numbad to move and choose search directions. But if a barrel contains two or more items, I need to press enter which means moving my hand which means annoying delay.
    2.lock picking. It takes about ten shift+p plus direction commands to open a chest and there are always about 5 locked chests in a treasure room. It gets old really fast. Maybe some easier system for this?

    Sorry I am using my phone and can't be arsed to explain more properly at this time.
     
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  2. Jack Dandy Arcane

    Jack Dandy
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2013
    Messages:
    3,001
    Location:
    Israel
    Divinity: Original Sin 2
    Can a nice person gimme the skinny on this game real quick?
     
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  3. mercyRPG Arbiter

    mercyRPG
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Alpha Centauri
    From the point when you find any Ice Ball spellbook or any area ice spell. Cast it on the guards and have preferably several of them turned into ice. Then either shoot or hit them to make them explode into thousands of ice splinters. With a lower level party you can try to mob the guards, concentrating all your attacks on one, but that usually will result one guard massacring your fighters.

    Best solution is to either summon something to take the hits, until you can use the Ice spellbook again on the other guards too. The merchant is usually tough too, so he needs to be iced as well.

    Good gear and magic weapons make these tough guards killable late game, but by then its much simpler to ice them with higher level spells. :)

    Best weapons are GOD WEAPONS. Find those in dungeon treasure rooms, but best at the Castle store, near the city centre, left to the castle are two shops. One usually has nicely changing inventory, spawning new items in a couple of days.

    I usually did such Power Weapon & Gear hunts by checking the shop inventory, then traveling outside to the main road and doing couple of Merchant Hunt rounds - consisting of running up and down on straight stretches of roads to see if any encountered Merchant has some valuable items. Days passed, Castle-shop inventory changed..

    Then I went back to the shops. If there was a God Weapon or God Armor (IIRC) which usually cost large amounts of money, I immediately attacked the shopkeeper: WARNING!! The shopkeeper will summon Über-Powerful guards! But by now you should be able to ICE them :D. The exploit was that I memorized the EXACT SPOT, where the shopkeeper died by my hand, and I kept standing before that spot and attacked his "ghost" and killing him and looting him repeatedly, taking those God Weapons again and again and selling them at other castle stores. Attack-loot-sell-repeat and you'll have enough money to take to the super-expensive Master Enchanter and the Master Trainer to train your skills to high level and enchant your gear to +5 or Forge "Super Enchanted" items with the powers you select. :D Even with this exploit the game was hard. But Antti changed the new windows version of the game a lot. So if he is reading this, he might decide to close this amazing exploit. :)

    MAKE SURE THE GUARDS DON'T SEE YOU ATTACKING CITIZENS!

    Sometimes of course the guards noticed that I was wringing the neck of the shopkeeper and a Cat & Mouse game ensued. When I was able to evade the guards and flee the city, they probably forgot my crime in a couple of days, IIRC. ((Couple of times IIRC i was thrown into jail, but maybe my memory fails at this detail. But I think I remember it being fun to Pick the Jail Lock and escape. :D))
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
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  4. Gunnar Savant

    Gunnar
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2016
    Messages:
    704
    TB RPG where you create a party of 8 (good chargen). Random encounters on world map with fixed encounters in dungeons. Randomized shops. Lots of different spells and items. It reminds me of Kings Bounty in a way, where the combats can be difficult and you have to probe around sometimes for a fight you can beat, then use the stuff you gain to win the next fight, etc. Nice itemization, always feel like there's a new useful item just around the corner. There's lots of ways to creatively use the spells and items in the game to flip battles in your favor.

    On the negative side- story, writing and graphics are minimal, and there isn't too much variety in enemy attacks. Combats are TB with lots of enemies which can take a long time to get through. chardev is pretty sparse. There appears to be many bugs but game is quite playable.

    I'm enjoying it, the game really is very addictive.
     
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  5. mercyRPG Arbiter

    mercyRPG
    Joined:
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    Location:
    Alpha Centauri
    Wandering Merchant Bug:
    Created another party with members from all races now and bought cheap items from wandering merchants successfully with each race to check if the bug is race specific. However when talking to a merchant and changing to my inventory to un-equip items so I can sell them:
    keypresses of "s" which should sell stuff to the merchant or at least display the merchant saying to my selected inventory item:
    - "I don't want to buy this" ==> causes CTD "Helherron.exe stopped working... Close the program"

    Every time, even one "s" keypress crashes the game. Sometimes multiple "." keypresses crash the game. IIRC the Linux version didn't have these bugs. The "." key normally selects the next party member and lastly the merchant, so its the active trading group member select key. Win7, Game version 2.102 HOTFIX.
     
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  6. akuukka Educated

    akuukka
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
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    Thanks, will have a look at this.
     
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  7. akuukka Educated

    akuukka
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
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    Thanks! There were some cases where numpad enter was not equal to the main Enter key. Should be now fixed (in 2.103 which is available soon).
     
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  8. akuukka Educated

    akuukka
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
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    55
    You need to download the 2.102 HOTFIX version to get to the dwarven temple. It is unfortunately broken in the original 2.102.
     
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  9. akuukka Educated

    akuukka
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    55
    Gunnar, could you possible send me your save game files? I really want to fix this bug so I'd like to first check if the item at least exists somewhere. If yes, I can restore your items.
     
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  10. TOME Cuckmaster General

    TOME
    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,820
    I just tried ice spells. Cold ball x5 made the guards slightly wounded. But before I could move two guard archers shot my 370hp 57AC golem to death and one guard almost killed my fighter in one sword swing. So I guess we are playing different game?

    Fake edit: Just realized that I haven't bought or enchanted any gear so maybe your chars have better AC and DB.
     
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  11. mercyRPG Arbiter

    mercyRPG
    Joined:
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    Location:
    Alpha Centauri
    Blizzard then, that works for sure: purchase the first book, grab the others by force. :) At lower level book-casting is a solution vs. casting from memory by skill.

    You might be right in needing stronger ICE type spells. IIRC, any living creature had some resistance buffer against ice - Or simply lower level Ice spells have less chance to Freeze? Maybe when the victim was cooled down enough, it froze solid. (?) Do I remember this correctly or Ice Ball is not strong enough - has low chance to freeze - and is just an area damage spell without the amazing Freeze Everything It Hits capabilities of the spell BLIZZARD.


    ICE EFFECT INVESTIGATION:
    Thanks to the author of the amazing self containing Helherron Massive Original Help: helherron_edited.zip, I checked the mage spells and IIRC, (it was more than 10 years ago I beat the game 3x times), the Hard Spell Difficulty ice spell Cold Ball *_might_* freeze enemies, when they are shot with it multiple times so their cold "resistance_buffer" is blown away / depleted? But the Very Hard Spell Difficulty Ice Storm probably can freeze enemies and at this same level the super amazing BLIZZARD can surely freeze enemies with high chances.

    Blizzard cannot be cast from memory by the mage until late game(needs high skill), BUT early game you can meet merchants selling Blizzard spell books, which was often the sole reason that any merchant carrying the Blizzard books died, as soon as I got my grubby hands on the 1st Blizzard spell book ingame from a dungeon loot or a purchase. After a couple of fights and getting clever, I realized that difficult monsters in dungeons die very well from the book-cast version of BLIZZARD, so I shouldn't waste the books on them, but on the merchants, thus creating an inexhaustible source of BLIZZARD spell books. :D :D :D Basically freeze any unbeatable enemy and splinter them to tiny ice particles with normal weapon hits or bows/crossbows. Thus Blizzard became the Ultimate Game Changer.
     
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  12. Gunnar Savant

    Gunnar
    Joined:
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    704
    Sure, where should I send it?
     
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  13. akuukka Educated

    akuukka
    Joined:
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    Thanks, please archive your "saved" folder and send as an attachment to akuukka@gmail.com
     
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  14. Gunnar Savant

    Gunnar
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2016
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    704
    I'm currently genociding the Birdman race and wow are these mages annoying with their summon monster spell; each one can summon 2 monsters and there are like 6 of them in the mobs. If they appear offscreen, like around a corner or something, they'll just spam that spell over and over clogging everything up and making the battles take forever. It gets even more crazy if you do it back to them :D. Totally worth it though, this place is full of magic books and I got an awesome weapon.

    Right now facing off against the bird king and I have to turtle up in the corner to avoid being completely surrounded by summoned monsters.

    One question, does anyone give you a quest to kill these guys? I spoke to an NPC who mentioned it would be nice if someone wiped them out but I didn't get a quest for it.
     
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  15. akuukka Educated

    akuukka
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    Yeah, maybe I should make them actively seek targets, like move until there is 1 movement point left and only then summon if they still can't detect any targets.
     
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  16. mercyRPG Arbiter

    mercyRPG
    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Alpha Centauri
    Develop a Loot System for Thieves, in which all NPCs, town and village people and important NPCs carry money, jewelry, valuable items in their pockets or on themselves. Dagger type examples to implement:
    + Gold, Silver, Diamond-encrusted, Opal Stone[magic], Runed[magic] daggers
    + Lockpicks and Super-Lockpicks[Skeleton key], [chest or basement] keys for hard-to-pick locks
    + Portal Stone of Rescue to teleport out of difficult dungeons ==> into a country road on the surface
    + Black Portal Stone that when used: teleports directly to Prison Dungeons, which are very hard to escape from [no teleport out possible, just in..] but have valuable loot in the "Final Treasure Room"
    + Rarity balancing of all above: make the powerful items rare enough to feel like a true achievement (fun) and often enough for players to notice so word can get around in player circles.

    Thieving, pickpocketing is extremely fun, thus will attract a LOTS OF COSTUMERS.

    In Antharion for example even Sheep, chicken, children could be pickpocketed(don't remember for what, ah, give them wool == shear their wool to sell in shops), chicken-->eggs=food, children-->apples/sweets-->food.

    Conscience is a no fun element in games for a Master Thief: Looting everything however easily becomes a race and reputation==>when your reputation gets high enough the Queen may summon you for an important and very Hush-hush secret series of Thieving quests, next quests in the series given when attaining higher LVL.

    If word gets around that pickpocketing is Extremely Fun in Helherron, people will line up to buy your game. Notice the most successful games have lots of Gathering--Getting--Looting--Plundering--PickPocketing--Lockpicking elements, because that is the Nature of Man, to steal and cheat and GET everything, because nothing is enough!!

    Why deny people great fun and yourself of considerable retirement revenue?

    Note:
    Antharion's Steam Rating has been downgraded by people, because the finished game was 'abandoned' by developers in the eye of people, so that's why a "mixed" rating of an otherwise excellent game, which undeniably borrowed features from Helherron!
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2017
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  17. mercyRPG Arbiter

    mercyRPG
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    769
    Location:
    Alpha Centauri
    Move Planner ~
    Battlefield Move Points Measurement Indicator for the Look feature

    Looking around the battlefield should show the remaining Movement points - distance from the player in Move point cost at Look-Cursor -, how much move points left at the exact spot, where the player is looking. Good for planning backstabs with thieves and to plan, where to move with the warriors.
     
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  18. mercyRPG Arbiter

    mercyRPG
    Joined:
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    Location:
    Alpha Centauri
    Show battle log: Shortcut please to show the past 10 battle events in the battle, appearing below in the text area, best would be scrollable. To review what happened. If my fighter was hit, currently there is only a sound played - the 1 line event report is frequently missed, especially when watching the action - so I can't review what happened exactly. Checking status is the only way currently.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
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  19. mercyRPG Arbiter

    mercyRPG
    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Alpha Centauri
    Checked for you the very simple "beginner level" Cold Dart spell: When i cast it with very high magic skill - in the 160s - with 3x Magic point usage, it immediately freezes a goblin solid, so it breaks into tiny ice splinters later.
     
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  20. Gunnar Savant

    Gunnar
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2016
    Messages:
    704
    Bird king has been vanquished. I ended up using a Lighting wand to zap him to death and a Boiling Blood wand (which hits ALL enemies) to wipe out the army of summoned monsters. It felt kind of cheap, but eh. The world can rest easy now that the Birdman menace has been eliminated. (?)

    In the Castle I visited the largest, emptiest wine cellar in the world. Seriously, why is this area so big? (Yes, I finished the quest here)

    Went for my first boat ride, can't believe the gameworld is even bigger than I initially thought. Exciting! First stop was a fort where I picked up several suits of full plate armor, providing a big boost to AC. Started exploring and found a Centaur hideout. These guys are the next race to be purged! So far I have fought my way to the gate of some sort of settlement.

    I must say that the combat is starting to become a bit wearying. Each enemy type seems to just be a bigger bag of HP that hits harder. I wish they would change it up a bit and do some things I haven't seen before. As it stands only mages are still interesting because they can utilize some of the vast spell library the game offers.

    Question, is there any benefit to using racial arms, like decking my elf out in all elven equipment?

    Yes! A battle log would be very welcome. Even if it was a small one, say showing the last 3 actions, would be a vast improvement.
     
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  21. akuukka Educated

    akuukka
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    55
    I know, this is something I want to improve when I have the time. The new AI scripting system makes it achievable.

    I wouldn't do centaurs after birdmen. There's the frogmen, ratmen, magical forest, shroom men, etc.
     
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  22. SkeleTony Augur

    SkeleTony
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    938

    He did but it does not work with Windows XP and he no longer programs for Linux so I can't even use my Linux mint dual boot crap.
     
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  23. SkeleTony Augur

    SkeleTony
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    938

    Yeah I still have more of these...somewhere. And I have been working on updating the race/class pics but I keep getting distracted by other matters and my motivation is somewhat lacking since I will have to get a new PC or laptop set up just to play the game now.
     
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  24. SkeleTony Augur

    SkeleTony
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
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    938

    I do not know about the newest versions but IIRC in 2.04 you could 'ctrl+i' to select a new icon.
     
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  25. FeelTheRads Arcane Patron

    FeelTheRads
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Messages:
    12,760
    I think he means replacing your characters as a whole not just the icon?
     
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