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Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Morgoth, Aug 13, 2014.

  1. Morgoth Arcane

    Morgoth
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    http://www.hellblade.com/

    Outstanding art design.


    The Independent AAA proposition
    http://www.hellblade.com/?p=16972

    More power to them.

    And down with the cheapo-mobile Untermenschen.
     
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  2. abnaxus Arcane

    abnaxus
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    Heavenly Sword 2?

    Surprised Swen Vincke or Feargus Urquhart never came up with this.
     
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  3. Cromwell Arcane

    Cromwell
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    Who cares if their aaa or indie or indie aaa. Guys made shit games, I saw the video was intrigued and then the video said "from the same hobos who did Enslaved and DMC" like thats something you can be proud of. I dont know about heavenly sword but I would not try it after playing the mentioned two games.
     
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  4. chestburster Savant Illiterate

    chestburster
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    No thanks. If I want Clive Barker-style art design, I'll just play Clive Barker's games.
     
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  5. Martius Liturgist

    Martius
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    Maybe this time they will actually get to level of movies and literature (probably not but watching them trying that can be funny).
     
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  6. Morgoth Arcane

    Morgoth
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    It can only go up from there with retarded publisher-demands out of the way.
     
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  7. Machocruz Arcane

    Machocruz
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    Doesn't matter what they call themselves if they are going to keep making piss-easy games for scrubs.
     
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  8. Multidirectional Arcane

    Multidirectional
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    I really liked what these guys did with DMC, might have to check out their other stuff.
     
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  9. Cromwell Arcane

    Cromwell
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    If you like rape theres always loverslab its cheaper then give them money for theirs.
     
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  10. Morgoth Arcane

    Morgoth
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    Pretty compelling stuff. Hopefully the game design also holds up to their gorgeous world & art-design. Last thing I need is another narrow-spaced button masher. But then again this is Ninja Theory we're talking about.... only this time unshackled from inane publisher demands, so perhaps there's something good coming out.
     
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  11. abnaxus Arcane

    abnaxus
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    Their wymyn always look the same.
     
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  12. Martius Liturgist

    Martius
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    At least she is not redhead. I doubt they will surprise this time with gameplay, it will probably again some wannabe God of War clone.
     
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  13. Garryydde Arcane Patron Douchebag! Repressed Homosexual

    Garryydde
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    A game from the creators of Enslaved: Odyssey to the Motion Sickness and DmC:DMC? No thanks.
     
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  14. abnaxus Arcane

    abnaxus
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    I want to be a Imass Bonecaster.
     
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  15. Jick Magger Arcane Patron

    Jick Magger
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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Bubbles In Memoria
    Said Dennis Dyacks when he finally severed ties with evil Nintendo and got a chance to make his magnum opus; Too Human.
     
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  16. MotherMachinae Arcane

    MotherMachinae
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    [​IMG]

    Actually it was better than Duke Nukem Forever.
    Show Spoiler
    Yes, I got once console, only to experience two much worse things - FPS on pad and GTA4.
     
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  17. fizzelopeguss Arcane

    fizzelopeguss
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    Dmc was fine, about as worthy an action game you'll get out of a western developer. The lunacy and autistic attention to timing and cinematic spectacle in combat has really only ever come from the japs.
     
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  18. Martius Liturgist

    Martius
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    I wonder how decent will be pc version since it will be their first project on this platform. From what I heard DmC port was good but Capcom outsourced that to another company. No idea about Enslaved, probably it was similar.
     
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  19. Morgoth Arcane

    Morgoth
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    It's based on UE4, so it's kinda hard to bork the PC version.
     
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  20. MotherMachinae Arcane

    MotherMachinae
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  21. Great Deceiver Arcane

    Great Deceiver
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    fucking finally.
     
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  22. Edward_R_Murrow Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Edward_R_Murrow
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    "Player discoverability", "immersion", "used as a crutch", "purity of experience"...cut the buzzwords TamTam.

    Progression systems or RPG-like mechanics get a bad rap in action games.

    While most action games tend to implement them in a kludgy manner (especially more recent ones), progression elements can add a whole lot to the gameplay experience, adding a strategic layer to runs, creating more mechanisms to reward the player for solid play, or dogged exploration of the gameworld.

    Look at games like the first Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden Black, and God of War (2). In each game, progression elements were a net positive in the experience; the games were designed around them from the outset, rather than being tacked on.

    Devil May Cry 1 did an excellent job with the way Red Orbs were handled. Not only were they hidden in the gameworld, but were awarded in greater numbers upon killing enemies while carrying a high Style Meter ranking (or vanquishing foes via Critical Hits; special kill conditions of certain foes), and for completing Missions with a high ranking. With the way that costs were balanced, a player doing a fresh run (on any difficulty) would find Red Orbs valuable for the majority of the run, would face choices on what moves/upgrades to purchase, and would strive for higher rankings as S-ranks and Special Bonuses (a "perfect" S-Rank, roughly equivalent to a DMC3 SS rank) for the plentiful amount of orbs bequeathed. This resource acquisition and management game could add a bit of strategic depth to a playthrough and was by no means

    Sure, later games completely dropped the ball in this respect (from DMC2 onwards to Platinum's games, save Revengeance), balancing upgrade costs around people grinding via Mission/Chapter Select (a feature not in DMC1) or progressing through 3+ difficulties with the same character file, but DMC1 shows that the model can be executed well.

    God of War would lose much with zero progression elements as well. Like Devil May Cry, it rewards the player with more upgrade currency, in this case Blood, for defeating enemies in certain manners (particularly in how killing enemies in certain ways will reward the player with either health/magic or blood offering a choice of either short-term resources or upgrade currency). And like Devil May Cry 1, it's also balanced around the single playthrough. Different from Devil May Cry is the focus on hidden secrets, particularly Gorgon Eyes/Phoenix Feathers and even entire weapons/spells/costumes squirreled away in the gameworld. Cutting progression elements would make it difficult to incentivize gameworld exploration in the same way, and at the least make it a lot less compelling to the average player. Finding secrets is fun, and doubly so when they help to promote the player character's combat effectiveness.

    And while Ninja Gaiden Black wasn't particularly well balanced for the average playthrough (farming was too easy), progression elements play extremely well in Score/Speed Runs. When playing for Karma, the 100K bonus for going under (strict) par times is worth far more in points than anything gained from farming (while encounters respawn in some locales, they are only scored once). And speed runs, almost by definition, preclude farming tactics. This means the player is working with a limited amount of Essence at any time, and is forced to budget it on weapon upgrades, armlets, and items (mostly Smoke Bombs, Arrows, and Devil Elixirs). It adds a strategic element to the run, making for more interesting, deeper gameplay.

    So, no, these elements aren't worthless in action games, not vestigial pieces of design, and certainly not a crutch. They're a legitimate design choice, one that has been done well in previous games and could be done better in the future. Cutting them out sounds like a Bethesda-style lobotomy. "Well, dialogue skills weren't popular and neither were Spears, Crossbows, and Spellmaking...so let's just cut it all out. Don't worry, our games will be even more IMMERSIVE!"

    As for some other sticking points...

    Healing items (from menu/inventory) are similarly the victim of unfair derision. As with lower difficulties, they're an essential scaffolding element that allows the sub-genre to consistently tune their enemies towards more competent/skilled players rather than towards a lowest common denominator. While other genres flounder or are dumbed down to appeal to some vacuous notion of the "casual gamer", these games have kept up the pace for almost a decade and a half, mostly avoiding the decline.

    I assume even Tameem wouldn't be silly enough to suggest removing any sort of inventories, things that have been in beat em' ups and action platformers since the beginning; games like the original Ninja Gaiden Trilogy, Shinobi, Final Fight, Contra, Metal Slug, and so on.

    UI minimalism is foolhardy as well. Indicators occupy screen real estate in most games because they are the best way of transmitting crucial information to the player in a timely manner and they help to support more complex game mechanics.

    El Shaddai was a game that (at least on the first playthrough) offered no health bar, no super meter, or no indicator of weapon degradation via abstract UI elements, instead attempting to convey this information through the character's body. As he took more damage, his (oddly shaped) armor fell apart leaving him in nothing but some designer jeans when on death's door. When super meter was charged enough to power up your attacks with the flames of Archangel Uriel, a glow would engulf the character. And weapons stolen from enemies would gradually darken as you used them, becoming less effective the more impure they became.

    It was also extremely simplistic, with only one attack button and strings based mostly on timed presses (think DMC-style timing combos, but longer and the majority of the main character's arsenal) with only block+attack and jump+attack inputs otherwise. Meter only fed into one utility (Uriel's assistance to power up attacks) and weapon degradation hardly mattered, because G-Ranks encouraged constant capture of enemy weapons, making purity management mostly unnecessary.

    That said, the UI was still sorely missed. Gauging how much damage attacks dealt to the player character was difficult, to say nothing of figuring out how much damage enemies were taking from the attacks of the user. That's essential feedback the player was denied; figuring out which attacks were better or which enemy techniques were most worrisome was extremely difficult based solely on animations and graphical changes to character models. Super meter was similarly tricky to measure; it was hard to see what built it up effectively and when to turn it off to conserve it. I can't imagine trying to deal with a more multi-faceted meter like DMC1-4 Devil Trigger much less Bayonetta's magic gauge which feeds into numerous things (often all at once). Complex mechanics require detailed feedback, and minalistic UI design is not at all suited to this.

    Jeez, Tameem comes off as such a hack.
     
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  23. MotherMachinae Arcane

    MotherMachinae
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    Gameplay Trailer


    YT comments deliver
    Casual+console, no shock here.

     
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  24. Martius Liturgist

    Martius
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    I think I missed gameplay parts because I blinked.
     
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