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KickStarter Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption - adventure-RPG from the creators of Quest for Glory

Discussion in 'Adventure Gaming' started by Jaesun, Jul 16, 2012.

  1. mustawd. Magister

    mustawd.
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    Click here and disable ads!

    Corey Coles said:
    LOL.


    Carl Heintz, CPA, MBA, CEA said:

    MRY...Dude what??
     
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  2. MRY Prestigious Gentleman Wormwood Studios Developer

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    Not really sure what the question is. I was describing what I understood to be the Coles' approach to the project. Not sure how may different ways to say that I'm not sure it's a valid approach, only that it's their approach
     
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  3. mustawd. Magister

    mustawd.
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    I see. The TL;DR on what Corey posted is “I pay zero income tax because I have zero income” Everything is ancillary. The S corp is just good tax/business advice. Nothing more and nothing less.

    I asked for citations on your point #2 that mentioned some method of taking out a HELOC and deducting it as salary (or something. Not wuite sure I followed what you were tryng to say). I guess I was expecting that from your post. Not Corey basically saying “We made zero monies, so we have zero income tax. Also my accountant recommended we create an S Corp so we can use tax loss carryforwards”

    I mean, again, that’s valid advice. Not sure how that explains that takijg a HELOC to pay for your under budget game is either 1.) A good business plan or 2.) Proof that you’re wealthy. Not even sure it proves that taking out a HELOC is cheaper than using your own funds. But whatevah. I’m bored. Let’s just quit this and assume the Coles are millionaires. Congrats Corey.
     
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  4. MRY Prestigious Gentleman Wormwood Studios Developer

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    I'm sure I'm being dumb. But what I'm understanding Corey to be saying is that if they take out a HELOC of $X and have profits of $X, they would pay zero taxes, even if n% of $X is "use[d] ... to pay our living expenses." (Indeed, it's not clear to me that the HELOC was used to pay anything other than their living expenses.) Taken to its logical conclusion, that would mean that a person could pay himself a salary equal to a game's expected return, fund it with a loan, and then pay no taxes at all on his income. That isn't how I understand taxes to work, and it seems to me a considerable tax advantage if that's how the Corey's are doing it, since it would mean that if Hero-U made $300k, their take-home income would be $300k, not $300k minus taxes.

    As for their being millionaires, you can poke around the same Quora posts I did. For instance:
    (The Coles are 62 and worked for decades and Corey frequently posts about investing, but maybe he's talking about people he knows.)
    (In fairness, this could be academic, but it's a weird question to answer if you're not rich.)

    Anyway, like you said, it's a boring topic. I just don't get any kind of "we're going belly up" vibe from the way they talk about their choices on this project. Everything he says is more consistent with someone who is relatively pleased with how things worked out.
     
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  5. cruelio Learned

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    Who knew posts on a forum about children's entertainment could be so important to the life, the universe, and everything. Well this guy knew. The big time Mr. Accountant who posts on a forum about children's entertainment.
     
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  6. mustawd. Magister

    mustawd.
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    This forum is known for its honesty. It has nothing to do with the universe and everything. All I’m saying is maybe people should start being a bit more honest about what happened here. Is that really a controversial statement?


    I disagree, but I’ve already mentioned why.

    Yah, the examples you provided do seem pretty academic. He doesn’t seem to really be talking about himself specifically.

    There are some issues with what you’ve described. Also, I was undercthe impression the loan was taken out to help fund the game.

    Anyhow, let’s drop this. I was mostly bothered with the lack of people calling a spade a spade. Aka this was a shittily managed project and the Coles were naive, foolish and out of touch when it came to managing their KS funds. I do hope their personal finances are ok. But if not I’m not really gonna lose much sleep over it.

    Good talk tho. Thanks MRY.
     
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  7. Infinitron I post news Patron

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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    News on the Coles' next games: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/transolargames/hero-u-rogue-to-redemption/posts/2281931

    They're now working with Fig.

     
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  8. SerratedBiz Arcane

    SerratedBiz
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    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Boleskine Arcane

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  10. MRY Prestigious Gentleman Wormwood Studios Developer

    MRY
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    (1) I think it's great that they're going to make more games. I hope, as long as they're having fun doing it, they make games until their bodies can't do it any longer -- it's a great way for them to spend their golden years.

    (2) People will crowdfund an advertising campaign. That's how generous the spirit of oldschool gamers is toward the heroes of their youth. (Which makes the Coles' jab at Western vs. Japanese gamers even lamer.) It is almost unimaginable to me that poorer people would give money to richer people to run commercial advertising for a paid game, but, like I said, that's the kindness that people have for this stuff.

    (3) Summer Daze at Hero-U should just use the PANIC at Multiverse High! engine and be done with it. Also, is Shawn now a mechanic, too? Or is that a new character?
     
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  11. V_K Arcane

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    Um, even though Shawn looks kinda genderfluid, I'm pretty sure getting sex reassignment surgery wasn't part of his plans.
     
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  12. MRY Prestigious Gentleman Wormwood Studios Developer

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    Eh? This looks like the same character to me, just somewhat more stylized. Same hair color, similar hair style, similar outfit (vest with jacket-style front flaps), same boots, same eyebrows, similar belt, etc...?
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    The color scheme on the vest even matches Shawn's original design:
    [​IMG]

    I assume he's just in a shorter shirt because of summer heat...?
     
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  13. V_K Arcane

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    You must have really bad eyesight if you don't see the boobs outline in that pic. That's in case overly broad hips weren't a dead giveaway already. It's very obviously a girl.
     
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  14. DeepOcean Arcane

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    :what:+ :hmmm: = :prosper::prosper::prosper:+:timetoburn:
     
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  15. azimuth Educated

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    I guess they don't have any girls at Harvard.
     
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  16. LESS T_T Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    A bit more details on the two new games: http://hero-u.com/summer-vacation/

     
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  17. Tramboi Cipher

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    Elegant artwork ?
     
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  18. V_K Arcane

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    It doesn't get more elegant than a cow in boob armor!
     
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  19. Jarpie Arcane Patron

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    What jab was that? would like to see a quote.
     
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  20. MRY Prestigious Gentleman Wormwood Studios Developer

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    Here you go.
     
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  21. Curratum Learned

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    To the developer's credit, they personally reached out to me on Steam in private chat and we worked together and they implemented a custom launcher / front-end fix to fix an issue that was preventing my specific setup from playing the game properly. The guy on the other end was super-nice and I am glad we got it worked out in the end.
     
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  22. newtmonkey Arcane

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    The thing about Japanese games is bullshit anyway. AAA games in Japan are often priced around 70-80USD, while games from smaller (but still decently sized) developers tend to me a bit less (60-70USD). Most indie games are 20-30USD. The only games that are even MORE expensive than AAA are niche games released by massive corporations like Koei Tecmo (mostly their strategy games) or limited edition versions with sexy anime toys or whatever.

    But it's a moot point anyway, cuz NO Japanese developers are living tax free based on mortgages or whatever because they got 500,000USD from fans lolz.
     
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  23. Jarpie Arcane Patron

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    When it comes to pricing your product, you have to look at the market objectively, if other similar products costs 20-25 bucks, you can't expect people to pay 35 bucks for yours. I rarely see games priced between the indie prices and AAA prices, unless my memory fails me. One of the things I learned in the studies for BBA (well, it is common sense IMO) is to find the balance between the price and how much it'll sell, you price your product too high, people won't buy it, but there's usually the threshold for price vs. sold units. They could really uses someone competent handling the business-side, but I doubt they'd listen.

    Generally speaking, I get it that devs pour their sweat and tears into their games, but it'd be IMO very important to think of it as a product, also to have a very clear picture of their target audience/segment. You have to know who will buy your game, and how many buyers there are potentially, you also have to sell it to them. It's also important to tailor your games for it, can't expect game like Serpent in the Staglands to sell hundreds of thousands copies, which is very much made like the early 90s games, with all that encompasses. Same goes for Hero-U, the name alone is off-putting, I can't believe they actually kept it. It sounds like mobile shovelware thrown out to make a quick buck, it shouldn't be a big mystery why people aren't finding it.
     
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  24. Boleskine Arcane

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    https://www.kickstarter.com/project...osts/2281931?cursor=21541003#comment-21541002

     
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  25. TheWorld Educated

    TheWorld
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    Mmm i wonder... if they are starting to work on Wizard's Way and Summer Daze has the game really gone so badly (between kickstarter, steam, and gog)? Either it's earning (which seem low from what you guys have written) managed anyway to cover their expenses, or these guys are richer than it looked like (even considering corey's posts)
     
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