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How do you feel about innovation in RPGs?

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Prime Junta, Nov 9, 2019.

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How do you feel about innovation in RPGs?

  1. Fuck innovation, innovation is decline, keep making Gold Box games forever (Traditionalist)

    13.0%
  2. Yeah baby, everything must change, something beautiful is about to happen (Revolutionary)

    18.6%
  3. Both positions have merit, we must carefully consider each before etc etc (Centrist)

    49.7%
  4. Yeah but what is a RPG? (kingcomrade)

    18.6%
  1. Riddler Prophet Patron

    Riddler
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,049
    Bubbles In Memoria
    This poll asks the wrong question.

    Whether I like an RPG or not is not tied to innovation, it is tied to quality.

    Games are overall of very poor quality(particularly writing quality), possibly because it is very difficult to create games. That is the issue, not the presence or lack of innovation.

    Compare it to non-interactive media, am I not going to watch a movie or read a book because it isn't innovative? Would in watch/read something just because it is innovative?

    I consume things because they are good, not because they are new. That is not to say that new isn't interesting, but I'm not going to say no to a really well-made game just because it is similar to what came before. (Good)innovation can excuse some blemishes but quality is always quality.
     
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  2. Doktor Best Arcane

    Doktor Best
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2015
    Messages:
    2,052
    Im really looking forward to an super-AI dungeonmastering my vr rpg sessions. No pre written dialogue. No real plot. Just me, a predefined world with a laid out ruleset and one poor artifical cognition that has to put up with my sick little mind.

    Incognito mode would be appreciated.
     
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  3. deuxhero Arcane

    deuxhero
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Messages:
    8,222
    Location:
    Flowery Land
    The only recent innovation in RPGs I can think of that actually work are

    1: The text adventures in PoE
    2: The Expeditions series camping tasks

    Both were copied by Kingmaker.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
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  4. Lord Commissar Alexer Educated

    Lord Commissar Alexer
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2019
    Messages:
    114
    Location:
    Austria
    I'm not sure if dumbing down a game should be called innovation or injecting 'certain political views' in it.
    Regarding the trend to fully voice the player character...so far i cant really complain. Most german VA did in my opinion a good job.
     
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  5. Machocruz Arcane

    Machocruz
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,106
    Location:
    Hyperborea
    Any real, good innovation that could come to video RPGs would come from the wellspring. The classics evolved along these lines by incrementally approaching the possibility space of tabletop. All the games that are great in CRPG added a new stone to the path. There is still a long way to go of course. So are any developers looking at where things stand now and how the distance can be closed even further?

    One thing I know is that it will never come from AAA. The audience is a leash. RPGs are a lot about simulation, solving problems/figuring things out, and dealing with permanent consequences, things that most players have shown repeatedly to either loath or be incompetent at. You cannot build a road to the promised land while having a quest marker or Balanced mentality. That's the path to regression. You're short-dicking the potential of the genre.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
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  6. Fedora Master Arcane Patron

    Fedora Master
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2017
    Messages:
    4,512
    Innovation is code for "How much gay shit can we put in?"
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • not sure if serious not sure if serious x 1
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  7. HoboForEternity sunset tequila Patron

    HoboForEternity
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2016
    Messages:
    6,204
    Location:
    Disco Elysium
    i am definitely on centrism spectrum.
    execution > concept. you can have a novel idea but shittily executed, or refine an old formula to perfection.

    of course, everything is not equal. good idea + good execution > old idea + good execution > good idea + bad execution >old idea + bad execution.

    the leftmost is very rare, the 2nd is decently rare, 3rd are more common and 4th are those copycat garbages.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 4
    • nice nice x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
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  8. MadMaxHellfire Arcane

    MadMaxHellfire
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    4,416
    Location:
    Italy
    [Cleve disliked that]
     
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  9. turkishronin Savant

    turkishronin
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Messages:
    439
    Location:
    where the best is like the worst
    RPGs are games where you kill things and level up
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
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    • decline decline x 1
    • Yes Yes x 1
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  10. ManaJunkie Learned

    ManaJunkie
    Joined:
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    Messages:
    198
    Location:
    Guadalupe Canyon
    :nocountryforshitposters:
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
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  11. DJOGamer PT Arcane

    DJOGamer PT
    Joined:
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    Location:
    Lusitânia
    Have you tried playing games from other genres?
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
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  12. ManaJunkie Learned

    ManaJunkie
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2018
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    198
    Location:
    Guadalupe Canyon
    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 18
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  13. Prime Junta Arcane Patron

    Prime Junta
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    9,420
    Location:
    Kekkoslovakia
    Kerbal Space Program is still cool.

    Edit: non-facetiously

    KSP actually scratches one itch much better than spreadsheet RPGs ever did. KSP is all basically a massive optimisation problem, just like fine-tuning a build. Except KSP has way more freedom, more toys to play with, harder challenges, and generally more creativity. Even the best character systems in RPGs seem simplistic, unimaginative, restrictive, and just plain dull one you've had a solid intravenous injection of KSP.

    That means that systems in RPGs are a lot less interesting to me at this point than they used to be e.g. when Pillars came out. If it doesn't have something else going for it -- notably, the larpy role-playing/story/worldbuilding shit -- then I just can't get all that excited about it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
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  14. luj1 You're all shills

    luj1
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Messages:
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    Eastern block
    First off all, innovation can be both good and bad. Good innovation is always desirable. Kenshi or Neo Scavenger are recent examples of good innovation. Example of bad innovation is feature bloat in PoE and Kingmaker, or Guildwars 2 changing what made the first game good (wild example).

    Changing what's good =/= good innovation
    Feature bloat =/= good innovation

    In cases where the formula is perfected you don't need to innovate (Underrail, Grimoire).
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    • Makes you think... Makes you think... x 1
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  15. Lilura RPG Codex Dragon Lady

    Lilura
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    4,171
    rofl
     
    • Shit Shit x 2
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    • Agree Agree x 1
    • M'lady M'lady x 1
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  16. Max Damage Learned

    Max Damage
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    197
    I'll sit on the fence here and just say that what most RPGs lack is not innovation or respect to tradition, but quality and vision. I've played lots of titles that fall short real fast because of not understanding what makes a good GAME before everything else.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
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  17. TT1 Cipher Patron

    TT1
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Messages:
    1,178
    Location:
    From Rio to Krakow
    Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I finished the Long Dark episode 3 last night, so I opened my Steam library today and... I am kinda burned out/ hopeless, after Disco Elysium and Long Dark. There are no possibilities of playing something so good in the near future. Then I decided to install Epic Games to play any of their exclusives, maybe TOW or RDR2, but... I dont know... I dont know if I want to play it now.

    I dont know what to do with my life anymore.

    :despair:

    Suggestions, please.
     
    • Despair Despair x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
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  18. fantadomat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    fantadomat
    Joined:
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    Bulgaria
    Get drunk and fuck something,also no,don't instal an epic cancer or any of those shitty games.
     
    • Yes Yes x 3
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  19. smaug Arcane Patron Shitposter

    smaug
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2019
    Messages:
    1,651
    Location:
    Texas
    There are games that you and I can play for a couple hundred hours (depending on playthroughs) that have lots of replayability etc.

    But if you’re going to make a “New” game, then give me something different/innovative FFS. If not, what’s the point?
     
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  20. Darth Canoli Liturgist

    Darth Canoli
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
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    1,644
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    Perched on a tree
    Yeah baby, everything must change is the right answer, but not for every dev.

    This is the right approach for a dev whom mastered the basics, is talented and has a vast knowledge in bow PnP RPG, cRPG and is interested about everything else.
    For someone with a vast set of skills, talent and inspiration, creating an innovative masterpiece should be an ultimate goal.

    For the rest of the peasants and other shitty "AAA" devs, just play the classics you goatfuckers and retire if you don't learn anything new.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 4
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  21. ntonystinson Educated

    ntonystinson
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    125
    I think some innovation is needed. The genre has gotten quite a bit stale with every new RPG a spiritual successor to another old RPG. That's why am grateful for the "odd" RPGS. The likes of CK2/the upcoming 3, Mount and Blade, and brave indie Devs trying new things
     
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  22. Tito Anic Magister

    Tito Anic
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Messages:
    1,550
    Location:
    Magalan
    Fallout 2, Gothic 2 - perfected genre. What innovations?
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 3
    • Prestigious Prestigious x 1
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  23. Jimmious Arcane Patron

    Jimmious
    Joined:
    May 18, 2015
    Messages:
    4,647
    Fallout 2 could certainly have better combat. I don't like PB games so can't comment on Gothic 2
     
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  24. Prime Junta Arcane Patron

    Prime Junta
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    9,420
    Location:
    Kekkoslovakia
    Kerbal Space Program. Guaranteed no more extra free time.
     
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  25. Tito Anic Magister

    Tito Anic
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Messages:
    1,550
    Location:
    Magalan
    Fallout 2 has everything Fallout offers. Gothic 2 has factions. JA2 is not pure RPG - it is tactics first and foremost.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
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