I have decided to violate my Grimoire NDA. Ask me anything

[Keldorn]

You are an obsessive, extremist, frustrated, isolated, xenophobic, rabidly ideological chicken little type who simply can't find a moderate behavioural/thought pattern.
Remember : (irrational) Fear + Racism = Fascism.

On the other hand, Defjam, if you ever decline so far you begin to write like this guy, you will need to seek professional help. There are people in institutions who can construct a clearer sentence than this poor fellow.

Coming from your constipated & shackled mind-lock/brain-block, I take that as quite a compliment.

Free your prisoners, Cleve...... so that you may free *yourself*.

 

[Keldorn]

LOL, Cleve-Bashing vs. Game-Making vs. Game-Breaking.

2 outta 3 ain't bad !


Cleve is scared that the common folk might master his game, enjoy it, not accept the implied ideology within it, find bugs he missed, find imperfections he overlooked or maybe even mock it.

It's a highly paranoid lose-lose scenario for the extremist.

 

[dagorkan]

(See, I can't decide whether you're in on it, or whether you're just a rather dimwitted parrot.)

I assure you I'm not.

What does this mean? Answer the fucking question like a white man should. Are you a Jew or are you a parrot? I'm 95% certain you're one or the other and everyone knows it so just tell us and get it over with.

 

[UCRC]

I'm 97% certain that you're actually a dumbfuck. Genetically dumbfuck.

And hey, "ordinary mass genocide camps" boy, you still haven't answered my questions.

There doesn't exist a single Nazi document ordering, or even talking about, the extermination of Jews.

translation:

(...)
Since the basic position regarding the practical execution of the final solution of the Jewish question has fortunately been established by now, and since there is a full agreement on the part of all agencies involved. I would like to ask you at the request of the Reich Marshal to make one of your specialist officials available for the necessary discussion of details in connection with the completion of the draft that shows the organizational, technical and material prerequisites bearing on the actual starting point of the projected solutions.
(...)

And, in case you want to tell me that "final solution" doesn't mean killing anyone but just building some ordinary camps and some cozy ghettos out there, another quote:

"Regarding the Jewish question, the Führer is determined to clear the table. He warned the Jews that if they were to cause another world war, it would lead to their own destruction. Those were not empty words. Now the world war has come. The destruction of the Jews must be its necessary consequence. We cannot be sentimental about it. It is not for us to feel sympathy for the Jews. We should have sympathy rather with our own German people. If the German people have to sacrifice 160,000 victims in yet another campaign in the east, then those responsible for this bloody conflict will have to pay for it with their lives."

It is one of those things that is easily said. "The Jewish people is being exterminated," every Party member will tell you, "perfectly clear, it's part of our plans, we're eliminating the Jews, exterminating them, a small matter. (...) We came to the question: what to with the women and children? I decided to find a clear solution here as well. I did not consider myself justified to exterminate the men - that is, to kill them or have them killed - and allow the avengers of our sons and grandsons in the form of their children to grow up. The difficult decision had to be taken to make this people disappear from the earth.

It's all here: ttp://www.holocaust-history.org/himmler ... -large.mov
Everyone who want to discuss with this dumbfuck - please listen to this, you'll find it at least interesting.

btw: The people you are trying to defend here, have admitted it themselves. Proof is series of documents from Nurenburg trial in 1946.
Also, they did not denied it even later (I'm mentioning it in case you want to say that they were made to do it in 1946).
In 1977 Albert Speer, probably the most important Nazi figure still alive by then, sworn and signed his testiomny. It have said:

"Hatred of the Jews was Hitler's motor and central point perhaps even the very element which motivated him. The German people, the German greatness, the Empire, they all meant nothing to him in the last analysis. For this reason, he wished in the final sentence of his testament, to fixate us Germans, even after the apocalyptic downfall in a miserable hatred of the Jews.

"I was present at the session of the Reichstag of 30th January 1939, when Hitler assured us that in case of a war, not the Germans, but the Jews would be annihilated. This dictum was pronounced with such certainty that I would not have felt permitted to question his intention to carry it through. He repeated this announcement of his intentions on 30th January 1942, in a speech I also know of: The war would not end, as the Jews imagined, by the extinction of European-Aryan peoples, but it would result in the annihilation of the Jews. This repetition of his words of 30th January 1939 was not unique. He would often remind his entourage of the importance of this dictum

"When speaking of the victims of the bomb raids, particularly after the massive attacks on Hamburg in Summer 1943, he again and again reiterated that he would avenge these victims on the Jews; just as if the air-terror against the civilian population actually suited him in that it furnished him with a belated substitute motivation for a crime decided upon long ago and emanating from quite different layers of his personality. Just as if he wanted to justify his own mass murders with these remarks.

"So long as Hitler had temperamental outbursts of hate, there was yet hope for a change towards more moderate directions. Therefore, it was the resoluteness and coldness which made his outbreaks against the Jews so convincing. In other areas when he announced horrifying decisions in a cold and quiet voice, those around him, and I myself knew that things had now become serious. And with just this cold superiority he declared also, when we occasionally had lunch together, that he was set to destroy the Jews in Europe.

"In Summer 1944, the District Leader of Lower Silesia, Karl Hanke, paid me a visit. Hanke had distinguished himself by bravery in the Polish and French campaigns. He was certainly not an easily frightened person. Therefore it was of particular moment, when, at that time, he told me in a shocked manner, that monstrous things were happening in the concentration camps of his neighbouring district, Upper Silesia. He said he was there and would never be able to forget what atrocities he had witnessed there. Admittedly, he did not mention any names, but he must have meant Auschwitz in Upper Silesia. From the agitation of this battle-hardened soldier, I could derive that something unheard of was happening, if it could cause this old party leader of Hitler's to lose his composure.

"Hitler's method of work was that he gave even important commands to his confidants verbally. Also in the leader's records of my interviews with Hitler completely preserved in the German Federal Archives - there were numerous commands even in important areas which Hitler clearly gave by word of mouth only. It therefore conforms with his method of work and must not be regarded as an oversight, that a written order for the extermination of the Jews does not exist.

"That the Jewish inmates of the extermination camps were murdered was established at Court (IMT), by witnesses and documentation, and in fact not seriously contested by any of the accused. Himmler's speech before the SS leaders of 4th October 1943, which clearly illustrated the happenings in the extermination camps, was not discredited as forgery by the defence, as it for instance happened with the 'Hossbach-Protokoll.'

"Frank has never disputed the genuineness of his diary that by his own admission, he surrendered to the Americans on the occasion of his arrest. The diary contains remarks proving that the Jews in Poland were, except for a remainder of 100 000, quite annihilated. The accused also accepted these statements of Frank's and criticism was limited to the stupidity in handing over this incriminating diary to the 'opponents.'

"Schirach confirmed in a confidential conversation already during the trial, that he was present at a speech which Himmler gave to the district leaders in Posen (on 6th October 1943), in which Himmler clearly and unambiguously announced that the projected killing of the Jews had been largely carried out. He returned to this subject, which weighed on his mind also during his imprisonment in Spandau.

"In his final address to the Court, Goering spoke of the serious crimes which had been uncovered during the trial and he condemned the atrocious mass murders which he said escaped his comprehension. Streicher also condemned the mass murders of the Jews in his final address. For Fritzche, also in his final address, the murder of five million was a horrifying warning for the future. These words of the accused's support my contention that in the Nuremberg Trial the accused as well as the defence have recognised as a fact that the mass murders of the Jews had taken place.

"The Nuremberg Trial stands for me still today as an attempt to break through to a better world. Still today I acknowledge as generally correct the reasons of my sentence by the International Military Tribunal. Moreover, I still today consider as just that I assume the responsibility and thus the guilt for everything that was perpetrated by way of, generally speaking, crime, after my joining the Hitler Government on the 8th February 1942. Not the individual mistakes, grave as they may be, are burdening my conscience, but my having acted in the leadership. Therefore, I for my person, have in the Nuremberg Trial, confessed to the collective responsibility and I am also maintaining this today still. I still see my main guilt in my having approved of the persecution of the Jews and of the murder of millions of them."

(Signed) ALBERT SPEER

Munich,
15 June, 1977

 

[caliban]

Surely you can't believe these sources, they're Jewish fabrications! All of them!

 

[Oarfish]

Speer was a Jew loving traitor.

 

[Kaiserin]

What about the Jäger report then?

 

[DefJam101]

Let this thread die...

Cleve has lost his humour value, the nazis have been defeated.. etc. etc.

 

[caliban]

 

[UCRC]

Speer was a Jew loving traitor.

Wait a minute, for last several pages I was being said that they all Nazis were Jew loving. So you fit in perfectly.

As for traitor - that's niiiice. I suppose that this way of thinking translates to: "So, yeah, no Nazi admitted Holocaust because he wouldn't be Nazi if he would. *See*? There clearly wasn't any Holocaust!"

Still, nomask, I'm waiting for you here, kiddo. Because you forgot to answer 12 questions I gave you few days before (you asked for those by yourself, so I think you intend to reply). Not to mention your Himmler pal.

 

[dagorkan]

Pollacks passing judgment on historical Germany for not being nice to Jews, what is the world coming to?

 

[caliban]

Pollacks passing judgment on historical Germany for not being nice to Jews, what is the world coming to?

Explain.

 

[dagorkan]

Well you don't exactly have an exemplary history of dealing with Jews, setting them up as a separate caste and then scapegoating them to manipulate peasant anger, you pioneered that technique. On the other hand apart from the Third Reich, German Jews were (relatively) quite well treated and becoming integrated.

 

[luckyb0y]

Ahahahahaha

Are you serious?

Poland was one of the most religiously tolerant countries from the middle ages up to relatively recent times. Jews from all over Europe came here exiled from theyir own countries. Yes there were quite a few nasty incidents like in every other country in Europe, how does that change the general picture?

 

[UCRC]

Well you don't exactly have an exemplary history of dealing with Jews, setting them up as a separate caste and then scapegoating them to manipulate peasant anger, you pioneered that technique. On the other hand apart from the Third Reich, German Jews were (relatively) quite well treated and becoming integrated.

1. How does this have anything to do with me speaking as a historian and giving you fact-based proof? (View my recent posts if you want to know about my historical sources diversification and analysis)

2. If you suggest that I'm biased in this matter - well, ok. But then what? All proof I propose is fact based. Quite contrary to all Nazi dumbfucks like nomask7 I try stay away from stating opinions in favor of proposing facts and proof for what I state is true.

3. I won't go into details because it isn't the point of discussion. But if you really want to dare to flame about this with me, boy, just post another topic anywhere, and I think that I'll prove you wrong in no-time. But then, once again, how does this has anything with discussion we're in?

4. Germany was no other than Poland and any other country in Europe when it comes to Jews. While most of society were accepting Jew assimilation, with nationalistic movements gaining power (Volkisch) there was certain spread of anti-semitism which effects you could see during First World War (Judenzahlung).
With revisionism and rise of Bavarian extremism right-wing the idea of "stab-in-the-back" became much more widespread. Later on half of Nazi ideology was built upon it.

K, enough. I won'go into further details because - like I've said - it doesn't even have anything to do with discussion.

btw: Irena Sendler, Polish hero of Jewish ghetto in Warsaw who helped to save over two thousand Jewish children (not exaggerating, it's documented), died yesterday at the age of 98. During war she was tortured by gestapo and sentenced to death, she managed to survive with help from Polish resistance. For last few years she was believed to be next Nobel Peace Prize winner.

P.S. all 'ordinary death camps' discussion reminded me of something.

 

[Black_Willow]

Poland was very tolerant towards Jews since Middel Ages. Here are two facts to prove this:

1) When large numbers of Jews were expelled from Germany they settled in Poland (that says much about Germans being nice to them)

2) During renaissance Poland was called paradis judaeorum (Jewish paradise)

 

[nomask7]

Well, UCRC, for some reason Wikipeda seems to contradict your speculation about the supposed "Nazi document" you showed us (I thought people like you wrote the articles there). This is what Wikipedia says:

In 1940, the Nazis thought they had found a solution to the "Jewish problem"... The plan was to ship all European Jews to a new "homeland" in the African island of Madagascar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust

It seems like the "basic position regarding the practical execution of the final solution of the Jewish question [that] has fortunately been established by now" was expelling the Jews. The elite Jews, the ones for whom Germanophobia and hatred of Germans were a heritable pathology, had emigrated already before the war began. Hitler didn't try to stop them, he just wanted them out of Germany. Why, then, would he have bothered to exterminate the rest, amid already burdensome war? Using soldiers to drag millions of toxic bodies from gas chambers sounds like an awful lot of dangerous and wasteful work.

yada yada

The Nuremberg Trials, as I've pointed out, and as you can read even in Wikipedia, were a fraud. The Allies could have perfectly well fabricated and printed "Nazi documents" after conquering Berlin. If you rather trust such documents than forensic (scientific) evidence, then you're beyond help. I've addressed all of your "substantial" points in my previous posts. You're just unable to comprehend what I write, because so little in it fits your cosy, prejudiced view of history and the world. You haven't said anything about the Luftl report, or the documentary I linked to. The latter deals with "confessing Germans" (episodes 27 & 28):

http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com/

You should also visit:

http://www.germarrudolf.com/

Speer signed the following claim:

"Hatred of the Jews was Hitler's motor and central point perhaps even the very element which motivated him. The German people, the German greatness, the Empire, they all meant nothing to him in the last analysis."

I'd say he even personally fabricated it, hopeful that intelligent people would see the absurdity of the claim with perfect clarity and laugh a little. He also partook in the effort to shift blame from Germans to Hitler and the Nazi leadership, which I think was a sort of back-up device in the case people were too dumb to see the truth. He tried to serve his nation until the end. Unfortunately, in practical terms, the blame was never really shifted (nor the truth widely understood). Germany still funds Israel.

There's been a subtle shift of blame from Germany to the UK and USA though. Have you noticed? I think some Jews want to start milking the rest of us as well.

 

[Shota Shernokavich]

are you retarded?

 

[nomask7]

are you retarded?

Nope. Why do you ask? Are you?

Anyway, and to raise the level of this discussion, someone wanted me to quote Professor MacDonald's Jack London Literary Price acceptance speech. Here's some of it:

As a great American, Joe Sobran, once wrote:

The full story of [Pat Buchanan’s 1996 presidential] campaign is impossible to tell as long as it’s taboo to discuss Jewish interests as freely as we discuss those of the Christian Right. . . . Not that the Jews are all-powerful, let alone all bad. But they are successful, and therefore powerful enough: and their power is unique in being off-limits to normal criticism even when it’s highly visible. They themselves behave as if their success were a guilty secret, and they panic, and resort to accusations, as soon as the subject is raised. Jewish control of the major media in the media age makes the enforced silence both paradoxical and paralyzing. Survival in public life requires that you know all about it, but never refer to it. A hypocritical etiquette forces us to pretend that the Jews are powerless victims; and if you don’t respect their victimhood, they’ll destroy you. It’s a phenomenal display not of wickedness, really, but of fierce ethnocentrism, a sort of furtive racial superpatriotism. (Sobran, J. (1996). The Buchanan frenzy. Sobran’s (March), 3)

I agree entirely with this. And this last part of Sobran’s comments bears directly on the topic of my talk: Is Judaism an appropriate model for survival of the West?—by which I mean not only culturally but ethnically as well. I have at times been accused of being an anti-Semite. But the reality is that I greatly admire Jews as a group that has pursued its interests over thousands of years, while retaining its ethnic coherence and intensity of group commitment. There have been ups and downs in Jewish fortunes, to be sure; but their persistence, at times in the face of long odds, and their spectacular success at the present time are surely worthy of emulation.

Taking seriously the idea of Judaism as a model for ethnic activism is a tall order indeed. What would we have to do that we are not doing now?

First, we would have to develop a strong sense of ourselves as a people with interests—interests that often conflict with the interests of others. The fact is, of course, that any mention of the ethnic interests of European-Americans or even Europeans in Europe or anywhere else is certain to be greeted with scorn and accusations of “racism” and moral depravity. These accusations are effective because if there is one area where the intellectual left has won a complete and decisive victory, it is in pathologizing the ethnic interests of the European majority of the United States. By “pathologizing” I mean not only that people have been taught to believe with utter certainty that there is no biological reality to race or ethnicity, but that the slightest assertion of ethnic self-interest by the European majority of the United States is the sign of a grave moral defect. Indeed, it is a moral defect so grave that it is really more a matter of psychiatric concern than anything else. (Consider the term and usage of 'xenophobia'.—nomask7)

Of course, this stance requires a great deal of hypocrisy, because assertions of ethnic interests by Europeans are stigmatized at the same time that assertions of ethnic interest by other groups are utterly commonplace and respectable. As Virginia Abernethy recently wrote:

The goals of the multicultural game are ethnic separatism, ethnic privilege, and ethnic power. I began to realize not too long ago that I have to play the multicultural game, at least defensively, or I and my family and kin will lose out. It is what every ethnic group except, in the main, European-Americans, does these days. (Abernethy, V. D.(2004). Arizona illegals (letter to the editor), Washington Times (October 1))

Indeed, Mexican activists loudly advertise their goal of reconquering the Southwestern United States via immigration from Mexico—an event that would be rather obviously in the ethnic interests of Mexicans but undoubtedly would compromise the interests of European-Americans. Jewish organizations, which were in the forefront leading the intellectual and political battles to pathologize the ethnic interests of European Americans, have also been deeply involved in organizing coalitions of minority ethnic groups to assert their political interests in Congress and in the workplace. The elaborate Jewish effort on behalf of their ethnic brethren in Israel is legendary and can only be described as awesome in its effectiveness.

http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/archi ... model.html

 

[Shota Shernokavich]

Nope. I'm just wondering why you would revive this boring ass thread.

 

[Imbecile]

Look Nomask - everyones heard both sides of the argument, and have probably come to some sort of sensible conclusion. Let it drop, for the love of gawd.

 

[Outlander]

5/5 would read again

 

[mastroego]

Passing the story to the next generation?

 

[Old Hans]

july 2005 my dwarf warrior was almost level 60 in WoW!

 

[Zdzisiu]

Jesus fucking Christ, it was nearly 10 years ago, I was still in high school and shit.