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IGN article: "Should X-Com Have Stayed Turn-based?&quot

Baron

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Probably.

But more importantly it should have stayed Strategy.
 

nihil

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Baron said:
But more importantly it should have stayed Strategy.

I think that's implied with turn-based. And I've never seen real time, first person and strategy go well together. Sounds like a hassle to do well.
 
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I won't read a long-ass article about that. Of course it should be turn-based. That's what UFO is and should be. Furthermore, UFO should have UFO aliens, not lego block things.

Pfft. This is how you make a game/movie these days : take a popular, classic game/movie, then use the name only, nothing else since you're an asshole and want to use your own completely crap ideas but sell them with a much better brand. I could do that too. Let's make a Good, Bad & Ugly movie where the story is : a good Lucky Luke type of guy and an ugly good-hearted comic relief midget seek the Good's only true love, kidnapped by the Bad who's an evil jew banker.
 

Fens

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toby mccasker said:
At one point I worked in an office as Zoo Weekly's entertainment editor. That didn't really work out. In fact, they ended up firing me and then a wild media shitstorm appeared. Henceforth, I now have an appalling reputation for shooting myself in the foot in the name of the oft-foregone conclusion that is journalistic integrity.

And I'd do it again.
looks like he's doing it again
 

DraQ

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Whoa.

Something non-retarded on IGN?
:what:

Ok, the choice of video games to support the point is still pretty derp and I LOLed heartily at
Tens of millions of Pokemon fans can't be wrong...
, but it's still a massive incline from the tripe usually seen on IGN and I guess we can't really afford to be picky these days.
:salute:
 
In My Safe Space
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Codex 2012
Yes. They shouldn't have added the half-assed RTwP. 3 should have stayed purely turn-based like 1 and 2.
 

Haba

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Who is trolling there?

"should there be more turn base gams?" hell no. Too many rpgs have been turn based, and thats what has ruined the genre for me. The best games i think have real time movement and thats how it should stay. Sure, stuff like Final Fantasy and Golden sun have awesome stories and stuff, but it takes tooo damn long to go through the battles and you don't have any way to kanually dodge attacks. What happend to skill and reflexes?

Faegers!
 

DakaSha

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nihil said:
Baron said:
But more importantly it should have stayed Strategy.

I think that's implied with turn-based. And I've never seen real time, first person and strategy go well together. Sounds like a hassle to do well.

Yeah battlezone sucked
 

MetalCraze

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Here is a challenge for dumbshits in this thread going "Woah IGN wrote something that doesn't go against the only possible true view of the world (mine)!!1"

Find a game Codex liked that IGN didn't in the past 3 years.
 

Rivmusique

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IGN Comments said:
Let's not forget, though, just like it says in the article: transitions from turn-based to real-time can work. As much as I liked the original Fallouts, they did not hold my attention nor immerse me in the world nearly as much as Fallout 3.
:lol:

Now there is something we can all agree on. The old fallouts just weren't immersive with there silly far-away camera and take it in turns to move combat (silly game, who fights like that?). The new shit, however, is the goods, 10/10 Bethesda!
 
In My Safe Space
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FP RT strategic games would make players die out of boredom when they wait for their order their armies and corpses to execute their orders
 

Drakron

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Rivmusique said:
Now there is something we can all agree on. The old fallouts just weren't immersive with there silly far-away camera and take it in turns to move combat (silly game, who fights like that?).


Chris Avellone said:
Narration cannot be separated from level or system design, imo, and camera angles are a big part of that. As an example, there are certain vistas and moments in Fallout 3 and New Vegas that could not be accomplished without breaking you out of the isometric view regardless (REPCONN rockets launching). You can't get the full impact of weather, day/night, seeing the moon over Vegas, seeing the two Ranger Statues in the distance at the Mojave outpost, seeing distant flames at Nipton, looking up to see the Goodsprings cemetery with the skyline of Vegas behind it, or seeing the storms of the Divide to complement the location (the last four of which I'd argue are strong narrative moments as well as superior level design touches that cannot be done isometrically). I feel isometric is great for multi-party (like, 5-6 individuals you're controlling in combat), but when you're the lone wanderer with one or two companions that take general orders, it's not essential.

http://willooi.com/2011/09/unmasking-th ... ne-part-3/
 

Angthoron

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MetalCraze said:
Here is a challenge for dumbshits in this thread going "Woah IGN wrote something that doesn't go against the only possible true view of the world (mine)!!1"

Find a game Codex liked that IGN didn't in the past 3 years.

Doesn't IGN kinda like pretty much all games? I dunno, just kinda got that impression.
 

nihil

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MetalCraze said:
Find a game Codex liked that IGN didn't in the past 3 years.

That's going to be hard. IGN likes everything with good graphics, and they don't review games like Knights of the Chalice.

Also, I don't see how it's on topic.
 
In My Safe Space
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Codex 2012
Drakron said:
Rivmusique said:
Now there is something we can all agree on. The old fallouts just weren't immersive with there silly far-away camera and take it in turns to move combat (silly game, who fights like that?).


Chris Avellone said:
Narration cannot be separated from level or system design, imo, and camera angles are a big part of that. As an example, there are certain vistas and moments in Fallout 3 and New Vegas that could not be accomplished without breaking you out of the isometric view regardless (REPCONN rockets launching). You can't get the full impact of weather, day/night, seeing the moon over Vegas, seeing the two Ranger Statues in the distance at the Mojave outpost, seeing distant flames at Nipton, looking up to see the Goodsprings cemetery with the skyline of Vegas behind it, or seeing the storms of the Divide to complement the location (the last four of which I'd argue are strong narrative moments as well as superior level design touches that cannot be done isometrically). I feel isometric is great for multi-party (like, 5-6 individuals you're controlling in combat), but when you're the lone wanderer with one or two companions that take general orders, it's not essential.

http://willooi.com/2011/09/unmasking-th ... ne-part-3/
I never missed stuff like that in Fallout. Especially with postcards and other stuff like that.

Damn. It's this time of the year again... I smell the burnt leaves and it's getting cold... I feel the call of Fallout 1 again...
 

DraQ

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Awor Szurkrarz said:
FP RT strategic games would make players die out of boredom when they wait for their order their armies and corpses to execute their orders
:lol:

I'd like to see a proper strategy in proper RT with wide range of time compression factors (up to 100k or maybe 1M) to make it all possible, though.

No coarse TB abstraction, but a lot of detail, still plenty of time to make decisions and no RTS army in a minute nonsense.

It'd be very :monocle: .
:obviously:
 

Gondolin

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Chris Avellone said:
Narration cannot be separated from level or system design, imo, and camera angles are a big part of that. As an example, there are certain vistas and moments in Fallout 3 and New Vegas that could not be accomplished without breaking you out of the isometric view regardless (REPCONN rockets launching). You can't get the full impact of weather, day/night, seeing the moon over Vegas, seeing the two Ranger Statues in the distance at the Mojave outpost, seeing distant flames at Nipton, looking up to see the Goodsprings cemetery with the skyline of Vegas behind it, or seeing the storms of the Divide to complement the location (the last four of which I'd argue are strong narrative moments as well as superior level design touches that cannot be done isometrically). I feel isometric is great for multi-party (like, 5-6 individuals you're controlling in combat), but when you're the lone wanderer with one or two companions that take general orders, it's not essential.

Frankly, I agree with what Avellone says here. However, I couldn't care less about such cinematic moments in my games. So what if I don't get the full impact of the Shitville skyline? The primary function of the interface is to be tactically pleasing.
 

DraQ

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Gondolin said:
Chris Avellone said:
Narration cannot be separated from level or system design, imo, and camera angles are a big part of that. As an example, there are certain vistas and moments in Fallout 3 and New Vegas that could not be accomplished without breaking you out of the isometric view regardless (REPCONN rockets launching). You can't get the full impact of weather, day/night, seeing the moon over Vegas, seeing the two Ranger Statues in the distance at the Mojave outpost, seeing distant flames at Nipton, looking up to see the Goodsprings cemetery with the skyline of Vegas behind it, or seeing the storms of the Divide to complement the location (the last four of which I'd argue are strong narrative moments as well as superior level design touches that cannot be done isometrically). I feel isometric is great for multi-party (like, 5-6 individuals you're controlling in combat), but when you're the lone wanderer with one or two companions that take general orders, it's not essential.

Frankly, I agree with what Avellone says here. However, I couldn't care less about such cinematic moments in my games. So what if I don't get the full impact of the Shitville skyline? The primary function of the interface is to be tactically pleasing.

Except the only Fallout game that was in any way "tactically pleasing" was Tactics - which sucked.
 

Gondolin

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I'm content with isometric perspective for starters. The tactical options provided by FO1 and 2 were as good as those of Enemy Unknown and Terror from the Deep. Good enough for me.
 

nihil

Augur
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Gondolin said:
I'm content with isometric perspective for starters. The tactical options provided by FO1 and 2 were as good as those of Enemy Unknown and Terror from the Deep. Good enough for me.

I don't know about as good as X-Com, but yeah, it was fun enough.

As for

Chris Avellone said:
Narration cannot be separated from level or system design, imo, and camera angles are a big part of that. As an example, there are certain vistas and moments in Fallout 3 and New Vegas that could not be accomplished without breaking you out of the isometric view regardless (REPCONN rockets launching). You can't get the full impact of weather, day/night, seeing the moon over Vegas, seeing the two Ranger Statues in the distance at the Mojave outpost, seeing distant flames at Nipton, looking up to see the Goodsprings cemetery with the skyline of Vegas behind it, or seeing the storms of the Divide to complement the location (the last four of which I'd argue are strong narrative moments as well as superior level design touches that cannot be done isometrically). I feel isometric is great for multi-party (like, 5-6 individuals you're controlling in combat), but when you're the lone wanderer with one or two companions that take general orders, it's not essential.

I agree that narration is tied to system design, and I also agree that some scenes in New Vegas couldn't have been done with isometric perspective, but that doesn't mean New Vegas did those things better than FO1. In fact, the first Fallout had strengths like giving an impresson of vast wastelands and huge travelling distances, something New Vegas lacks (and that can't be done with its system design). The location design also has a lot more character, even without the epic views. To me, Junktown, The Cathedral and The Glow had a lot more character and told better stories than Goodsprings, The Outpost and other places in NV. Not saying NV is bad in that respect, but the first-person view certainly isn't a narrative silver bullet.
 

Gregz

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Reese's Peanut Butter Cups.

FREE-Reeses-Peanut-Butter-Cups-300x300.jpg


Chocolate & Peanut Butter are both good...but how can they be combined to make something better?

Shooters & Squad Based RTS/TBS games are both good...but how can they be combined to make something better?

The problem is how to make the whole better than the sum of its parts. Reese's got it right with chocolate and peanut butter. Noone got it right with shooters and strategy.

Mass Effect tried...but the result is less fun than a good shooter and less fun than a good RTS/TBS.

Shooters are fun hyptonic twitch games that put the player into a 'zone' while playing.

:thumbsup:

'Pausing' that fluid playstyle to give tactical commands to your squad DESTROYS immersion.

:x

Noone has invented the Reese's Peanut Butter Cup for shooters and strategy games yet. It may be impossible, or it may be delicious.
 

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