Iron Cross and Arsenal of Democracy

[anus_pounder]

I found these two expansions of sorts a couple of minutes ago. I was wondering what the codex thinks of them?

 

[Ovg]

both suck dick - wait for darkest hour

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Arsenal of Democracy was definately fun, it added a lot of Cool Stuff to HoI2. Iron Cross felt like a total mess, however, further enhanced by extremely poor English.

 

[anus_pounder]

AoD it is then. I'm not waiting till march to get my HoI Fix (i'm too retarded to learn HoI3)

 

[Ovg]

You might wanna just play WIF mod for hoi2. Just saying.

Also, you aren't missing anything by not playing the big bag 'o dicks 'n' bugs known as hoi3.

 

[ZbojLamignat]

Yes, AoD added lots of cool stuff, too bad none of this stuff worked as it should. At least not up till the fourth patch, cause that's when I gave up on it afair.
It all sounded nice in theory, but in practice made the game a big chore and mess. My favourite being the unwinnable battles that run for weeks because broken ai units would fall back, then regain org before the rest broke, came back to battle, the other units regaind org and so on. Simply splendid in chockepoints and difficult terrain, where you couldn't use encirclement.

Also props for making HoI II run worse than HoI III.

 

[anus_pounder]

You might wanna just play WIF mod for hoi2. Just saying.

Also, you aren't missing anything by not playing the big bag 'o dicks 'n' bugs known as hoi3.

Looks interesting.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Also, you aren't missing anything by not playing the big bag 'o dicks 'n' bugs known as hoi3.

Ah, a newfag who can't install patches or understand supply, is my wager.

Anus_pounder, when you get tired of AoD and/or WiP-mod, do check out HoI3 now that Semper Fi and patches have made it much smoother than it was on release. It's not that much more complicated.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Also, you aren't missing anything by not playing the big bag 'o dicks 'n' bugs known as hoi3.

Ah, a newfag who can't install patches or understand supply, is my wager.

Agreed bro.

 

[Serus]

Yes, AoD added lots of cool stuff, too bad none of this stuff worked as it should. At least not up till the fourth patch, cause that's when I gave up on it afair.
It all sounded nice in theory, but in practice made the game a big chore and mess. My favourite being the unwinnable battles that run for weeks because broken ai units would fall back, then regain org before the rest broke, came back to battle, the other units regaind org and so on. Simply splendid in chockepoints and difficult terrain, where you couldn't use encirclement.

Also props for making HoI II run worse than HoI III.

Haven't encountered any of those problems (granted i only played 1.04 and 1.05 but there is no reason to play anything earlier than 1.04 today).
What exactly are the things that "sound nice in theory but in practice are a mess" ? AoD is mostly about small improvements making playing LESS of a chore. The management of sliders is a great improvement over HoI2 - and it works perfectly well. Same is the inclusion of single province sized air zones for targeting/deterimining range. Battles are slower as they should be - their pace is ridiculous in vanilla. Many mods for HoI2 included slowing battles for a reason. Never encountered a problem with "unwinnnable battles" - perhaps it existed before patch 1.04 but should be irrelevant today.

Overall AoD is a definite improvement, at least in theory. There is one major problem. Most of the mods for HoI2 were never transfered to AoD. If you are looking to play HoI 2 - AoD is the best "version" to chose. Except if you want to play a specific mod exclusive to HoI2.

 

[Ovg]

Ah, a newfag who can't install patches or understand supply, is my wager.

True, I'm overreacting. HoI3 is not my cup of tea, just like victoria 2. I prefer to play vicky 1 and hoi2.

Also I know how to mod all paradox grand strategy games so I guess I do know how to patch.

Is semper-fi a major ? Because I gave up long before it was released. I didn't like the sandboxy feel of the game.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

I hear Kaiserreich got a compatibility patch for AoD, but I couldn't be assed to do such a manual approach. I wish they'd do an installer or a zip for the AoD version.

As for problems with AoD, only that the Chinese cheat with Supplies. This is a big problem for Japan.

EDIT: Semper Fi adds some major improvements to HoI3, most notable being the improved AI (United Kingdom isn't of no consequence anymore), as there are now real attempts at amphibious assaults by the Allies all the time, and the AI commands its air force a lot better. They've also improved the map structure, most notably in Finland and Russia, where there are un-enterable 10% infrastructure provinces, which means that Finland actually stands a chance now.

However, Semper Fi does have a fuck-up in that it introduced the useless Share Research mechanic which allows a nation share a specific SKILL with another nation for 1 DP upkeep. Because someone must have thought this fixed the situation for minors, all minors had their Leadership values scaled back to vanilla 1.0 levels, which means they're once again functionally unplayable. Luckily it's still easy to mod, and the fantastic DiDay's Iron Cross mod reconfigures all Leadership values to realistic levels (ie, Finland CAN spare Ld to develop things like Fighters and Submarines) along with provincial tweaks and a massive number of new events (ie, Germany now has events for formation of specific SS armies and such) and expanded tech tree with country- and faction-specific techs (the major powers obviously having the most, but even Finland gets two).

 

[GarfunkeL]

Dunno about mods, I'm still playing vanilla HoI3, though with a few fixes of my own (DD&SS get upgraded, HQ's can be airlifted). I only play majors so I wouldn't know how bad the situation is with minors.

As to improvements of SF, it doesn't transform HoI3 from sandbox to event-driven game but it does scale back the randomness. Diplomacy got an overhaul so it's not very likely to have the whole world in the Allies in 1938 or anything, though unless you want to face the whole world, you also need to play that game. AI is improved, now UK actually garrisons the British Isles so Seelowe isn't trivial to pull off plus France actually puts up a fight even in 1940. You can now create your own theatres which helps majors as well, plus there are plenty of little fixes around with GUI and such.

Still, the sandboxy-nature underneath it all is still the same so I can understand why some people prefer HoI2 over 3. The patch thing related to the retards who never installed any patches but were always keen to whine about game being utter shit; we've had them even here.

 

[anus_pounder]

Tried Iron Cross as Germany. Was so incredibly easy it was unplayable. Would not try again.

AoD is pretty fun, but i'm only about 45 minutes in so I can't really say.

I'll admit I never really gave HoI3 a chance. I found it 'complicated' at face value. I'll probably try to play it soon, instead of just staring at the new screens.

 

[GarfunkeL]

3 shifted the focus in combat from strategic-operational level into pure operational level which means more micromanagement unless you leave the fighting to the AI, with the ability to custom-tailor divisions and huge increase in provinces. Play with counters, makes it much better experience as well.

 

[anus_pounder]

Oh wow, I feel embarrassed. I've been reading around and apparently, using Brigades in HoI2 is a complete waste. At the same time, I guess it makes sense. I could've gone for a few more units rather than insist on every single division having a brigade. :/

 

[Reject_666_6]

3 shifted the focus in combat from strategic-operational level into pure operational level which means more micromanagement unless you leave the fighting to the AI, with the ability to custom-tailor divisions and huge increase in provinces. Play with counters, makes it much better experience as well.

Personally, I love all the micromanagement options that were introduced. FUCK YEAR

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Oh wow, I feel embarrassed. I've been reading around and apparently, using Brigades in HoI2 is a complete waste. At the same time, I guess it makes sense. I could've gone for a few more units rather than insist on every single division having a brigade. :/

Bollocks, it's all about using the right kind of brigades. Which usually means artillery.

 

[Chef_Hathaway]

Oh wow, I feel embarrassed. I've been reading around and apparently, using Brigades in HoI2 is a complete waste. At the same time, I guess it makes sense. I could've gone for a few more units rather than insist on every single division having a brigade. :/

Bollocks, it's all about using the right kind of brigades. Which usually means artillery.

AoD actually fixes the useless brigades, such as AT guns, by adding soft attack to them.

And you get rail arty, I mean who doesn't love rail arty.

 

[Raghar]

Oh wow, I feel embarrassed. I've been reading around and apparently, using Brigades in HoI2 is a complete waste. At the same time, I guess it makes sense. I could've gone for a few more units rather than insist on every single division having a brigade. :/

AA is must otherwise you'd be shreded by bombers.
Artillery is a must to have.
Infantry that has no answer to tanks is a mincemeat.
Police are great for certain units. (and they are cheap)
Engineers are must for units that want assault trough rivers.

They are far from useless.

 

[anus_pounder]

I'm still very much a newbie, so I was reading the HoI2 Wiki. The brigade's section was very negative about them and it linked to this one topic where someone did some extensive calculations and then decided that brigades were mostly useless.
That said, a lot of people did argue that brigades were useful, so I should've read the entire topic...

Also, Mixed Stacks or not?

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Well, mixing Armor with Motorized is a good move, since it gives you the Combined Arms bonus.

In HoI3, having brigades is even more beneficial, especially for Tank divisions. The best Tank division is one with three Medium or Heavy tanks, an Engineer brigade and a Motorized or Mechanized brigade. Infantry rolls with an AA and an AT brigade.

Also, remember that countries which get the ridiculously powerful Infiltration Assault sub-doctrine of Grand Battle Plan, Artillery (only normal artillery however) gives +20 Morale and Organization.

 

[GarfunkeL]

In HoI2, INF+ART, then make 3xdivision stacks. Works well enough for most situations. For breakthroughs, use 2xARM+1xMOT/MEC. That should work well enough. With HQs, pair them with AA to protect them from bombers who love to target lonely HQs and shred them to pieces.

BlueEmu did calculate right, that using vanilla INF is better use of IC/MP but the problem is that you seldom get to use all those extra divisions - thus its better to have less and more powerful infantry divisions than more and weaker ones.

As to HoI3, the divisional composition is hotly debated and big element of the fun!

Personally, I love all the micromanagement options that were introduced. FUCK YEAR

Me too. No AI will touch my nation in HoI3, gotta micromanage everything myself

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Hell yea, what's the point if you aren't microing everything in HoI3? I mean, you're almost microing your allies now too, though the useless idiots can't follow their objectives for shit.

 

[anus_pounder]

Oh boy. Just started playing as Turkey. Maybe I should've picked a minor thats less minor. With Italy being the weakest nation I've used so far, I'm completely unprepared for facing off against other nations on equal terms with no back-up.