1eyedking Is Thief a downgrade from Deus Ex/System Shock 2/etc?

[Lyric Suite]

Amazing they could pull something of substance together considering the game was a medieval bow shooter with no real direction for most of development, eh?

WTF am i reading. Thief is one of the most focused games ever made. From the atmosphere to the level design (some of the best in any games ever made) to the gameplay, everything fits perfectly together in one coherent whole.

Seriously, i don't get what your issue is here.

 

[Jazz_]

Thief is immersive until you realize the guards are braindead/blind and it's just self-suggestion/larping that makes it immersive. It's a great game with great atmosphere but I honestly don't understand all the raging boners for it in this forum. Deus Ex was a far more ambitious groundbreaking project, despite being rough around the edges.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Possibly retarded, the thread.

 

[Lyric Suite]

It's a great game with great atmosphere but I honestly don't understand all the raging boners for it in this forum.

Might be because it is a great game, possibly one of the greatest ever made. But no, totally average 'cause not as ambitious as Deux Es lel.

 

[A horse of course]

We should definitely have a conversation about how Deus Ex attracts libcucks whereas the Thief community is run by hardened white supremacists.

 

[Ash]

Thief is immersive until you realize the guards are braindead/blind and it's just self-suggestion/larping that makes it immersive. It's a great game with great atmosphere but I honestly don't understand all the raging boners for it in this forum. Deus Ex was a far more ambitious groundbreaking project, despite being rough around the edges.

Trust me, stay out for your own sake. They're deluded out of ignorance. Ultima Underworld was pretty much the first fully realized First Person 3D game and far, FAR more ambitious than Thief. Shock 1 was the first First person shooter hybrid with any real depth. Thief was the first FP stealth game. Deus Ex was the first 3D game that let you go combat/stealth/non-lethal by choice. All were ambitious, but all were far more ambitious than Thief, and Thief is the most disconnected or "downgraded" (yeah I'll say it now) from these other games in design, such as limited interactivity with the game world. Maybe if it weren't stitched together as a stealth game in the last third portion of development or originally intended to be their cash cow to fund Underworld 3 and actually had direction it would have been just like all the other Immersive Sims and not so narrowly-focused.

Anyway, devs have been record stating that A) Thief was meant to be a money-making project to fund UU3, but it did become its own ambitious, focused thing in the end. And B) for a lengthy time of development they didn't even know what to do with it. It wasn't even called Thief but Dark Camelot, and it wasn't even a stealth game.

Learn about the history of your "best game evar" and the company behind that game you fucking inbreds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thief:_The_Dark_Project#Dark_Camelot

But of course it's not that great, because a truly great game inspires reverence, loyalty and curiousity. My first Immersive Sim blew me away and I had to see what else this company was capable of. Nonetheless it's still a good game, but in my (valid, and what should be understandable) opinion it's just not as great as the Immersive sim's original incarnation that is shared among the others: uncompromising kitchen sink design and true raising of the bar, motherfuckers.

We should definitely have a conversation about how Deus Ex attracts libcucks whereas the Thief community is run by hardened white supremacists.

This may actually be p. accurate. I notice a lot of swastikas and "hang all monkey niggas" type-signatures in Thief discussions. That and the "behead Ash for being more knowledgeable and prestigious than us" thing they've got going. I put it down to codex being the codex at first.
Meanwhile DX fanbase is somewhat liberal.

 

[Ash]

Last bit of trivia? The reason I use this avatar is to attract you idiots to the real incline while still representing the Immersive Sim, as Thief has the biggest fanbase. And the Deus Ex avatars are shit. ...And I do still like the game. It IS a work of art, but so are all their great games.

But the end of the day my preference for their other games and your possible preference for Thief is a valid matter of opinion and not worthy of fucking bullying or harassing someone over you fucking weirdos.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Fuck your trivia. Thief was far better at doing what it did than System Shock 2 or Deus Ex were at doing what Thief did. We can see how your argument goes to shit along the lines here.

 

[Great Deceiver]

So... are we supposed to capitalize Immersive Sim?

on topic, I refuse to think that a game as razor-sharp focused as Thief is merely an accident cobbled together at the eleventh hour and that all the elements that combine to make it such a great fucking experience are just cosmic dust accidents. Who gives a shit if it started development as something else, the developers found their focus and ran with it. Who the fuck cares if it's not as "ambitious" as this or that - honestly, who gives a shit? Do you wank off during your Desu ex gameplay sessions thinking "what an ambitious Immersive Sim (tm) this is" , or do you actually play the fucking game?

This thread delivers.

 

[Ash]

Fuck your trivia. Thief was far better at doing what it did than System Shock 2 or Dues Ex were at doing what Thief did. We can see how your argument goes to shit along the lines here.

Matter of opinion. No need to behead me, claim I was beaten as a child, claim I've lost my mind or anything of the sort. Not that that was you, you've been rather reasonable.

Personally I think Shock 2 is just as tight as Thief despite having broader scope, except the final levels and aspects of the RPG systems.

 

[Lyric Suite]

on topic, I refuse to think that a game as razor-sharp focused as Thief is merely an accident cobbled together at the eleventh hour and that all the elements that combine to make it such a great fucking experience are just cosmic dust accidents. Who gives a shit if it started development as something else, the developers found their focus and ran with it. Who the fuck cares if it's not as "ambitious" as this or that - honestly, who gives a shit? Do you wank off during your Desu ex gameplay sessions thinking "what an ambitious Immersive Sim (tm) this is" , or do you actually play the fucking game?

This thread delivers.

This.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Will Ash get his typical modder tag back?

 

[pippin]

Thief 1 + 2 > System Shock 1 + 2

Thief = Deus Ex

 

[Ash]

Thief = Deus Ex

different, yet valid opinions, we can't allow that here. Probably beaten as a child or typical modder.

 

[octavius]

I fucking hate modders.

You modderhater.

 

[Kalin]

Thief = Deus Ex

different, yet valid opinions

 

[Dev_Anj]

devs have been record stating that A) Thief was meant to be a money-making project to fund UU3,

I must point out I find it amusing how fixated he is on this one statement, even though it was just a random comment made by an ex LGS dev on Systemshock.org and doesn't mean much on its own. If that were true why did Thief start life as Dark Camelot, an ambitious first person RPG like the ones he clearly likes?

Anyhow, I'm not going to violate his privacy, but I will post a series of posts from other forums which describe him appropriately:

You present your arguments as inflexible. Doesn't mean they are correct just because people choose not to engage with that.

Competence / knowledge != elitism. Elitism is thinking that the most refined preferences are the only valid ones. Kind of like your entire tone in this thread. What you may not appreciate, having been registered here all of a month, is that we're used to stuff like this - it's relatively common in niche forums.

You seem to believe you are some kind of highly refined connoisseur of gaming. In reality, you're just glib elitist #487 - we get one or two in here every few months.
Any decent points you might be trying to make are smeared out of recognition by your atrocious communication skill.
You could probably be engaging in some good discussion if you weren't so bent on trying to convince people of your supposed superiority.

GMDX Dev, you have literally called our tastes garbage and instantly dismissed any game I will ever produced as meaningless in gaming discussion because I am an indie.

Do you honestly not realize how this makes you an asshole?

You're mistaking "weak defence" for "not bothering". You're systematically ignoring all of the very decent refutations to your solipsism and basically just sticking rigidly to your "the Venn diagram of my taste and good games is basically just a circle" stance.

Your arguments were made a load of pages back and were pulled apart relatively rapidly, only you won't have noticed that because anything other than "you're right" isn't at the right frequency to penetrate your little bubble.

For the record, I think you are making some valid points, GMDX Dev. However, IMO you are making them in such hyperbolic terms, and in such an obnoxious, pompous, narrow-minded way, that I for one feel it's a waste of time to engage with you in this matter. I'm looking forward to GMDX 8.0 and I get the impression you're doing a great job on that one, so I wish you the best of success with that, but as far as this thread is concerned, I wouldn't mind having the kind of blocking function they had in the Black Mirror Christmas special.

See, that's what I'm talking about. You're raring to go 10 rounds in the ring already with somebody who doesn't give enough of a shit to even write this post (but I will this once). Just read your retort a few times and ask yourself whether people want to hear that kind of crap. You always have to prove something and you don't care if it takes 1000 words to do it. You also have this callous attitude about being immune to criticism as long as you can justify your opinion somehow. Going to the ends of the Earth to defend a point has a diminishing return on investment. You don't gain anything because people stop caring that you're right or wrong or whatever and you alienate yourself in the process because the only thing that remains is the irritation of having to wade through your walls of text and somehow bring the thread back to what might be classified as an open discussion, rather than a pissing contest between 2 people. I can't say the participants are blameless but when you monopolize these conversations with your ordinary opinions, expressed 50 thousand different ways, it's hard to pretend it doesn't exist and just move on.

To sum up... why are you even here? You can have a 1-way convo with a computer but I'm assuming you come here to converse with human beings. If so, your appeal to those other people does factor in to the enjoyment you get from being a part of this forum. So don't be a douche and piss everybody off. At this point, it's more important for you to start being likeable than to convince others of something. Try the humility thing. Give up for a change and laugh it off and people will start to like you a bit more.

Here you are sharing your little nuggets of wisdom in this thread, yet every time you open your mouth, you instigate more bickering and divisive behaviour because no matter what someone says or how long it goes on, you always have to take a little pot shot from the sidelines to get back to the top of the stack. And you wonder why people are on your case all the time... if you want to set an example, don't chime in just to call someone a whiny faggots and then spend the next page spewing your standard issue arrogant-logicalrebuttal-speak.

We talk about speaking one's mind vs being an asshole in this very thread and here you are, a prime example of how NOT to do it.

I wouldn't describe you as malicious. I think it would be more accurate to say that you want to achieve status on this forum by using your "tough love" persona to give others the impression that your opinions are more valid than theirs. You're not the only one guilty of doing that. Heck, I've done it... never too proud about it either. But you seem to be particularly flagrant about it and lack the sound judgment to sense when the tension in the air is too great.

...but since I'm now contributing to the very phenomenon I condemn, I'm going to shut up and hope that all the heat in the room subsides naturally, which of course requires everyone to exercise self-control. It's not a forum rule or anything but I'm hopeful one day we can channel our outbursts more constructively.

And finally, I wholeheartedly agree with this:

on topic, I refuse to think that a game as razor-sharp focused as Thief is merely an accident cobbled together at the eleventh hour and that all the elements that combine to make it such a great fucking experience are just cosmic dust accidents. Who gives a shit if it started development as something else, the developers found their focus and ran with it. Who the fuck cares if it's not as "ambitious" as this or that - honestly, who gives a shit? Do you wank off during your Desu ex gameplay sessions thinking "what an ambitious Immersive Sim (tm) this is" , or do you actually play the fucking game?

 

[Ash]

Dev_Anj the stalker, harasser and now violator of privacy. One only needs to google based on what is written you fucktard.

And yes, I have had disagreements with people in the past, MORE than the two incidents above, and as a result some people called me names. BIG FUCKING SURPRISE. You really are pitiful sub-human scum and you don't even know it.

 

[agris]

Ash calm down and release GMDX 9.0 plz

 

[Ash]

As long as you're not going to become obsessed with me and start acting like a fucking weirdo.

 

[Somberlain]

We should definitely have a conversation about how Deus Ex attracts libcucks whereas the Thief community is run by hardened white supremacists.

That's weird. After all, Deus Ex is THE game about the sinister Zionist conspiracies. MJ12 and Illuminati ZOG, Bob Page Lord Rothschild, VersaLife Zionovartis, Gray Death Cultural Marxism, it's all there.

 

[toro]

Thief 1 + 2 > System Shock 1 + 2

Thief = Deus Ex

No

System Shock 2 > Thief > Deus Ex

 

[Dev_Anj]

And yes, I have had disagreements with people in the past, MORE than the two incidents above, and as a result some people called me names. BIG FUCKING SURPRISE.

Somehow whenever you have disagreements, things get out of hand very fast. Have you bothered reflecting why? Ever bothered seeing within yourself? Didn't think so. After all, it's more convenient to blame the opposition for being "ignorant", having "bad taste", "missing the point" and what have you.

I've had my fair share of disagreements and seen many long winded debates on forums, comment sections and elsewhere, but few people raise the shitstorms and get into the nasty parts as fast as you do.

And have fun trying to find old threads using those quotes in Google Search, Google doesn't handle long word strings very well. Not that you would know, being so convinced about your knowledge and skills that you can't accept anything as wrong if there's even a sliver of defense you can put up.

 

[Ash]

Somehow whenever you have disagreements, things get out of hand very fast. Have you bothered reflecting why? Ever bothered seeing within yourself? Didn't think so. After all, it's more convenient to blame the opposition for being "ignorant", having "bad taste", "missing the point" and what have you.

Well lets see shall we, little stalker? How did this get out of hand, lead to retards losing their shit and then resulting in them getting a prompt schooling?

I said "Thief was overrated" and "I prefer Looking Glass' other games". I gave a valid opinion. I "ruffled feathers" of a rabid fanbase by doing so.

Did I do anything morally corrupt to incite the wrath of these particular posters? Did I do anything wrong at all? I had a different opinion, which can be deadly on the codex. Especially when YOU in particular write retarded thread titles designed to draw their wrath with words I never actually stated, and state feathers will be ruffled. Well done! You got a victory over me, finally. That's why you even made the thread in the first place. You can pack your bags and leave me the hell alone now.

One fatal flaw was that I perhaps said I don't give a shit if I ruffle the fanbase's feathers, but honestly I don't, as I still hold the opinion it's overrated and a portion of its fans are rabid and ignorant of the true ambitions of the Immersive Sim in its original form without compromise. Mostly I was just annoyed by your fucking presence AGAIN and were dismissing you though. Otherwise I'd have kept my mouth shut. People are free to like different things.
Lastly it's RPGCodex. People are always slandering eachother.

Stare into the abyss dev_anj and it will stare back at you. Stalk me for long enough you may spot personality traits you don't like. Your love of me and my work turned to hatred. But unlike normal people you thought you'd just double down on the stalking.

I just took a look at your activities in the Thief fan missions thread. thought I'd get to know my stalker a little better and see what you're like without me to latch onto. And I didn't like your attitude in there either. Every contribution was just you being a little gossip Queen bitch. Fuck off with your morality policing shit, especially on the fucking codex, and over really, really minor infractions I commit. Becuase minor is all I really ever do. You're stalking and harassing and have been doing so for a year now. that's actually illegal and in breach of even this forums' rules, so I'll ask you one more time: please fucking stop.

 

[Maggot]

Thief is immersive until you realize the guards are braindead/blind and it's just self-suggestion/larping that makes it immersive. It's a great game with great atmosphere but I honestly don't understand all the raging boners for it in this forum. Deus Ex was a far more ambitious groundbreaking project, despite being rough around the edges.

Still better AI than Deus Ex.