Zed Duke of Banville
Dungeon Master
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2015
- Messages
- 11,759
Imagine burning the Elf.
Imagine burning the Elf.
The thing about Viconia is that her Evil nature is an informed attribute. At no point in both games was it revealed that she is Evil in any way. Yes, she is ruthless when it comes to retaliating against those that wronged her, but that is not a trait of Evil. At every point, she had always tried to run away from conflict or live in peace. This despite the fact she worships an Evil Goddess of Darkness, Loss, Envy and Hate that should have her killing anyone that looked at her wrong.It's never actually clear what Viconia has done before you meet her. As a Drow she is the easy target to be blamed for anything and at the same time as a Drow she may have done much worse.
In BG1 when you meet her it seems like she is persecuted by the guard solely because she is drow, but If you charm the officer, he reveals she is wanted for the murder of a family.
In BG2 she reveals to the PC that she tried to live by herself peacefully in the wilderness and some nearby farmers realized she is a drow, they tricked her by faking good intent and then they beat her up, raped her and buried her alive, but she managed to claw herself out and took her revenge.
But that could also be a lie, as Jaheira points out. On the other hand she and Jaheira are always at odds, so who knows. If you romance Viconia at some point she even admits that she has bedded all kinds of filthy merchants in order to take advantage of them and that she has even murdered some of them in the end. But she could be exaggerating because she is also trying to break the romance. Viconia is very ambiguous, that's why I like her a lot.
That, and also because she's the best cleric in the game. Dat magic resistance is pretty sexy too.
which is written, in plain English, on her character sheet. I assume the same information could be gained by casting Detect Evil, but I've never tried that. DnD isn't very nuanced with it's morality, in-universe she's objectively evil, whatever that entails.informed attribute
*sigh*which is written, in plain English, on her character sheet. I assume the same information could be gained by casting Detect Evil, but I've never tried that. DnD isn't very nuanced with it's morality, in-universe she's objectively evil, whatever that entails.informed attribute
Thankfully Charname can dick the evil out of her. Objectively. With his object.Viconia is evil in the D&D sense, she's a drow that worships an evil goddess = evil. Objectively. That kinda cheapens "evil" as a concept and a word, though.
Imagine burning the Elf.
Wrong!Viconia is evil in the D&D sense, she's a drow that worships an evil goddess = evil. Objectively. That kinda cheapens "evil" as a concept and a word, though.
Drows always lie you imbecile.The thing about Viconia is that her Evil nature is an informed attribute. At no point in both games was it revealed that she is Evil in any way. Yes, she is ruthless when it comes to retaliating against those that wronged her, but that is not a trait of Evil. At every point, she had always tried to run away from conflict or live in peace. This despite the fact she worships an Evil Goddess of Darkness, Loss, Envy and Hate that should have her killing anyone that looked at her wrong.It's never actually clear what Viconia has done before you meet her. As a Drow she is the easy target to be blamed for anything and at the same time as a Drow she may have done much worse.
In BG1 when you meet her it seems like she is persecuted by the guard solely because she is drow, but If you charm the officer, he reveals she is wanted for the murder of a family.
In BG2 she reveals to the PC that she tried to live by herself peacefully in the wilderness and some nearby farmers realized she is a drow, they tricked her by faking good intent and then they beat her up, raped her and buried her alive, but she managed to claw herself out and took her revenge.
But that could also be a lie, as Jaheira points out. On the other hand she and Jaheira are always at odds, so who knows. If you romance Viconia at some point she even admits that she has bedded all kinds of filthy merchants in order to take advantage of them and that she has even murdered some of them in the end. But she could be exaggerating because she is also trying to break the romance. Viconia is very ambiguous, that's why I like her a lot.
That, and also because she's the best cleric in the game. Dat magic resistance is pretty sexy too.
Her story in BG2 is a prime example. All she wanted was to live in peace, but a couple of rednecks decided to rape and murder her. Later on, she tells you more of her time on the surface, and IIRC she actually tells you the tale that got her hunted in BG in the first place (i.e., the merchant story). And in that one, she is a Cleric being chased by a Fighter that charname could easily beat into the ground at level 1. Did she have to run? Not really. A simple Command > mace-to-skull would have ended the matter, and would have been what an Evil cleric would have done. But she ran to avoid further trouble.
That is why people are sympathetic towards Viconia. She isn't Evil by any objective measure. She is just someone who wants to live in peace but is attacked left and right because of the colour of her skin. Literally. The fucking BLM movement should be using her as a poster child.
Beautiful logical fallacy at work.Drows always lie you imbecile.The thing about Viconia is that her Evil nature is an informed attribute. At no point in both games was it revealed that she is Evil in any way. Yes, she is ruthless when it comes to retaliating against those that wronged her, but that is not a trait of Evil. At every point, she had always tried to run away from conflict or live in peace. This despite the fact she worships an Evil Goddess of Darkness, Loss, Envy and Hate that should have her killing anyone that looked at her wrong.It's never actually clear what Viconia has done before you meet her. As a Drow she is the easy target to be blamed for anything and at the same time as a Drow she may have done much worse.
In BG1 when you meet her it seems like she is persecuted by the guard solely because she is drow, but If you charm the officer, he reveals she is wanted for the murder of a family.
In BG2 she reveals to the PC that she tried to live by herself peacefully in the wilderness and some nearby farmers realized she is a drow, they tricked her by faking good intent and then they beat her up, raped her and buried her alive, but she managed to claw herself out and took her revenge.
But that could also be a lie, as Jaheira points out. On the other hand she and Jaheira are always at odds, so who knows. If you romance Viconia at some point she even admits that she has bedded all kinds of filthy merchants in order to take advantage of them and that she has even murdered some of them in the end. But she could be exaggerating because she is also trying to break the romance. Viconia is very ambiguous, that's why I like her a lot.
That, and also because she's the best cleric in the game. Dat magic resistance is pretty sexy too.
Her story in BG2 is a prime example. All she wanted was to live in peace, but a couple of rednecks decided to rape and murder her. Later on, she tells you more of her time on the surface, and IIRC she actually tells you the tale that got her hunted in BG in the first place (i.e., the merchant story). And in that one, she is a Cleric being chased by a Fighter that charname could easily beat into the ground at level 1. Did she have to run? Not really. A simple Command > mace-to-skull would have ended the matter, and would have been what an Evil cleric would have done. But she ran to avoid further trouble.
That is why people are sympathetic towards Viconia. She isn't Evil by any objective measure. She is just someone who wants to live in peace but is attacked left and right because of the colour of her skin. Literally. The fucking BLM movement should be using her as a poster child.
She is evil, therefore she lies.
ftfy"Drow evil. Evil lies. Therefore, she must lie."
I have. Drow aren't even a playable race in 2E, and are chaotic evil in the manual, there is no mention of good or neutral aligned drow at all. Their whole lore is that they were the evil elves driven underground by the others. I don't think it's deeper than "she's a drow who worships an evil goddess". Yes, you can be a neutral follower of an evil deity, but not as a drow in this particular case. At least that's how I interpret it.Wrong!Viconia is evil in the D&D sense, she's a drow that worships an evil goddess = evil. Objectively. That kinda cheapens "evil" as a concept and a word, though.
In DnD, you can be a Neutral worshipper of an Evil deity.
Read the fucking manual.
Driz'zt and Liriel and Zaknafien and a bunch of others, like those worshipping Eilistrae says you are full of shit.I have. Drow aren't even a playable race in 2E, and are chaotic evil in the manual, there is no mention of good or neutral aligned drow at all. Their whole lore is that they were the evil elves driven underground by the others. I don't think it's deeper than "she's a drow who worships an evil goddess". Yes, you can be a neutral follower of an evil deity, but not as a drow in this particular case. At least that's how I interpret it.Wrong!Viconia is evil in the D&D sense, she's a drow that worships an evil goddess = evil. Objectively. That kinda cheapens "evil" as a concept and a word, though.
In DnD, you can be a Neutral worshipper of an Evil deity.
Read the fucking manual.
Ok, they are non-evil aligned (and quite the exception, and all came out after the first print of 2E), but none of them worship an evil deity. Drizzt worshiped either Gwaeron Windstorm or Mielikki, depending on the edition; Liriel either Mystra or Eilistraee; and I can't find any info on who Zak worshiped. And perhaps we are overthinking this, I doubt Bioware wanted to make a female version of Drizzt and preferred to have an evil drow companion, so she's evil and worships an evil deity. The good/neutral drow are exceptions in 2E, which aren't mentioned in the monster manual, mostly made to be protagonists or party members in books so people can root for them.Driz'zt and Liriel and Zaknafien and a bunch of others, like those worshipping Eilistrae says you are full of shit.
Unlike you, I judge individuals according to their actions.Ok, they are non-evil aligned (and quite the exception, and all came out after the first print of 2E), but none of them worship an evil deity. Drizzt worshiped either Gwaeron Windstorm or Mielikki, depending on the edition; Liriel either Mystra or Eilistraee; and I can't find any info on who Zak worshiped. And perhaps we are overthinking this, I doubt Bioware wanted to make a female version of Drizzt and preferred to have an evil drow companion, so she's evil and worships an evil deity. The good/neutral drow are exceptions in 2E, which aren't mentioned in the monster manual, mostly made to be protagonists or party members in books so people can root for them.Driz'zt and Liriel and Zaknafien and a bunch of others, like those worshipping Eilistrae says you are full of shit.
No! My waifu can't be evil!: The Thread
That's not true. They're in the infamous Complete Book of Elves.Drow aren't even a playable race in 2E
Character sheet says otherwise.
...And that's one of the reasons why alignment system is shit and followers sharing their full character sheets with you fucking derpy.