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Baldur's Gate Is Viconia evil? and other Drow discussions

Discussion in 'BioWare' started by Storyfag, Oct 5, 2019.

  1. hell bovine Arcane

    hell bovine
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    Dispel is a common spell. And I'm not dismissing magic resistance, but how soon into BG2 can you get permanent (undispellable) 100% mr on Viconia? Aerie's spell defenses work from the get go.
    Btw, I've never said I use Anomen for tanking. I use him for fighting. Which part of this is difficult to get: if I want a tanking cleric, I get Aerie (mirror image isn't the only low level arcane spell that counts, which is how I could get Quayle to tank wolfweres in BG1), if I want a fighting cleric, I get Anomen. Scroll scribing is not a problem with intelligence granting potions.

    And if you care so much about legality, why don't you complain about Viconia not getting any sunlight penalties as a drow? Aren't they supposed to lose mr if they remain on the surface too long?
     
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  2. Reinhardt Arcane

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  3. Falksi Arcane

    Falksi
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    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    I'd argue that since you can complete the game even solo, once you get your min-max kick out of your system you can pick and choose who to get for MAXIMUM AESTHETICS. And Viconia is much more charming than Anomen or Aerie. Min-maxing has its place and I'd say it's a good exercise to do once for every RPG you like, though.
     
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  5. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    Erm, what? Aerie only has one real tanking spell, MI early on. If she wants to cast arcane spells her AC will be crap. Thanks to her multiclassing it takes her quite some time to get to level 11 for Stone Skin but with just mage class she will start at one use per level, 2 if you manage to gain Contingency Stoneskin. That is not enough to tank for a lot. You need around level 13-14 to he able to memorize enough Stone Skins and MIs.

    I got you quite well, why are you still bringing up Anomen for melee fighting when that was never an issue? Why are you still evading the fact that he gets easily outshone by actual melee monsters? His extra attack does not really add that much extra damage. Duhm and HM are fairly short lasting buffs with long casting times, unless you like to rest every 5 minutes you do not want to use them at every turn, but without them his damage falls down quite a lot.
    Thanks to HLAs and how it works with multi and dual classing he falls even farther behind late game in SoA and for most of ToB since he ha no access to fighter HLAs unlike Jaheria for example. Once Whirlwind and Hardiness come into play Anomen is best left behind the front lines in tough fights where he does worse than Viconia. Aerie has the problem that it takes her really long to get HLAs, essentially until around mid ToB but HLAs are damn strong. Thanks to that she will also only get a very limited amount of them.

    Edit: Forgot about Viconia's MR, drows are not implemented as a playable characters so moot point to me. Dual classing on the other hand is firmly implemented in the game. You can in fact make a fighter/cleric which surpasses Anomen easily. Then again that is true for most companions.

    Edit 2: I checked and could not find an entry for them losing their mr, just their racial spells. I could also point out that Drow raise their MR by 1% per level, so there is that. There is a lot which is not implemented or differently implemented. That though is hardly a problem, house rules exist for a reason. But Bioware did not go against house rules or anything, they flat out broke the mechanics they implemented. Huge difference.

    http://gobbi.free.fr/Library/Manual/forgotten-realms-drow-of-the-underdark.pdf

    Eye candy:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
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  6. Mr. Magniloquent Learned

    Mr. Magniloquent
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    Viconia has an abundance of spell slots, which is what you want from a cleric. Her magic resistance gives her a massive benefit, because she will rarely ever suffer from status effects or area effect damage. This is paramount, because clerics are your party's panic button to undo disaster. Of all of the things, these matter most. Her single class cleric also gives her a very rapid advancement, so she will not only get access to higher level spells sooner, but more abundantly. Finally, don't brush off Command Undead. If you ever play a no-reload challenge, being able to collect a fighting force of wraiths, mists, and other undead as fodder is immensely valuable--you still even get the XP when they die. It's a common enemy, so it's essentially the game giving you free summons and XP in many dungeons. Her abundance of spell slots and quick advancement also lets you keep Holy Power up quite alot, meaning she become perfectly capable in melee with one of the many STR enhancing items in game.
     
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  7. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    The solution to having a tank is to make your main character a chad fighter/cleric.
     
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  8. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    And constitution is solved by giving her the belt which increases it to 18 for 8 hours which is more than enough to clear a map. At worst you rest twice after the buff runs out and get it back.
     
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  9. Eyestabber Arcane Patron

    Eyestabber
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    Eh, my oversimplified take on clerics in bg2 is that vicky rules the early to mid game with her superior spell progression, anomen is the best midgame option as he needs levels and items to fully "come online" while Aerie is the undeniable ToB powerhouse of the game, since by that point her spellcasting trumps anomen 's extra attack.
     
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  10. Cassius Dio Barely Literate

    Cassius Dio
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    Anomen is superior to Viconia in everyway that matters. The extra spell slots that she has access to are utterly superfluous because the game never punishes you for resting liberally, especially if you save-scum. Not to mention, she only enjoys extra spell slots in levels 1-4. Her early to mid game superiority is non-existent. Anomen can achieve grandmastery in flails (fail of the ages) and even spend two points in dual-wielding to use the defender of easthaven, which gives him percentage based physical damage resistance. This, combined with the usual defensive spells that clerics have access to, make him the best non-arcane tank in the game. Due to her abysmal constitution, sluggish attack speed and dreadful THAC0, she's completely ineffectual in the frontline. Her backline capabilities are also questionable because of the lengthy casting time of most cleric spells and her susceptibility to interruption. She's relegated, therefore, to the role of a healbot and a party pre-buffer, both roles that Anomen can perform just as well, especially since most of the important protection spells are present in levels 5-7. The only real advantages she has over him are her 18 dexterity and her 50% magic resistance. Her dexterity is wasted on her, because she should never be in harm's way in the first place. If she is under fire, that +4 bonus provided by her dexterity still puts her in a precarious position, given her paltry HP. Anomen's dexterity can quite easily be remedied by the brawling hands. Her 50% magic resistance is also of little consequence, because in all of the fights that it does have a significant impact, you'll end up pre-buffing your party anyway. It's trivial to pre-buff Anomen and provide him with the required resistances for such fights. The fights in the game which require no pre-buffing never end up testing her magic resistance. In the late-game, she finds herself superseded by a summoned planetar and is of no practical use whatsoever.
     
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  11. Lonely Vazdru Pimp my Title

    Lonely Vazdru
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    :martini:[​IMG] [​IMG]
    Drows are not necessarily
    evil you know...
     
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  12. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    Yes and my waifu is exactly one of those rare ones who aren't.
     
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  13. Neanderthal Arcane

    Neanderthal
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    Evil, good, neutral, they all burn fine.
     
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  14. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    What utter bollocks. In enemy territory you can be ambushed. Unless you like save scumming those happen frequently enough that it can easily take 2-4 attempts. Depending on your level and area you can get some nasty surprises here. Regardless of that, sensible people can restrain themselves from exploiting obvious weaknesses in game mechanics and not rest ad nauseum. I know I do.
    The extra spell slots are not wasted. 1-3 has some of the best cleric spells in the game, early on you can get a lot of healing for example out of them. Anomen gets proficiency like a priest, not a warrior. He has 0 points in flails and dual wielding. Assuming he starts at level 8, he will get there at level 36. Good luck with that. Hell just getting 2 in each he needs to get to level 24, yea seriously wishing you good luck with that genius plan. As to tanking, the only tanking spell priests have is Armor of Faith. It takes again a really long time again until this spell actually gives a noticeable damage resistance buff. Defender of Easthaven is also a bonus merchant item which I refuse to use, never installed the mod that gives you that merchant.
    Constitution and strength are easily fixable with items and potions. If you have problems getting spells off with your casters, git gud. Her real advantages over him are a starting 65% MR which can be buffed essentially permanently to 100% with some items. She has 19 dexterity which means you can give the only pair of Gauntlets of Dexterity to an actually good frontline warrior. Give her Shield of Reflection and she is almost immune to ranged damage, which is the main source of danger for her. Since she ignores almost all enemy CC she far more likely to be in a position to get crucial spells to save her comrades.
    Prebuffing priest spells takes a long time and dispelling is a thing. Without DHUM and HM Anomens damage is mediocre. If you have already 2-3 capable melees his melee damage becomes forgettable.
    The last claim of yours is so laughably stupid it is not even worth commenting on further.

    I seriously enjoyed seeing you using Viconia's Baldur's Gate 1 stats as a basis to form your post. Tells me everything I need to know about you.
     
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  15. laclongquan Arcane

    laclongquan
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    1. Viconia win in aesthetic all right, because you should never choose that sucker Anomen~ Dear god! The man whine the worst!

    In the underworld there's a lack of resources, plus not much extreme weather change. Thus there's all the reason for lithe and nubile elves.
    On the surface world, there's abundant of eatings, plus there's daily temperature change. I would argue a female dark elf would gorge themselves upon entering surface, and thus have voluptous/thic figures. Chocolate Butter Win!

    Also her low strength mean she dont have much muscle. Thus Viconia would be thic and delicious.
    [​IMG]
    2. Aerie can learn Minute Meteor and thus having a good source of magic weapons on her hand.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
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  16. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
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    25 Str, 19 Dex, full armour, virtual immunity to missile attacks and hostile spells, full caster progression.

    The only thing that would make Viconia better would be her multiclassing as cleric/mage or fighter/cleric.
     
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  17. Ranarama Learned

    Ranarama
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    This whole thread is stupid. Of course Viconia isn't evil, she's misunderstood and rebelling against her race like every other Drow.
     
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  18. Reinhardt Arcane

    Reinhardt
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    so true
     
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  19. turkishronin Savant

    turkishronin
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  20. GarfunkeL Racism Expert

    GarfunkeL
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    About the ToB ending, it's pretty retarded of Bioware to do it that way because it basically ignores everything in their games just to have a GRIMDARK ending and no, Ascension doesn't fix it. 1d4chan put it well:
    Also, when arguing about min/maxing, remember you have to actually play the game. Having an ultimate badass at lvl 40 is fucking pointless if the game ends 10 minutes after reaching lvl 40 and your journey up to that point has been a miserable slog.

    So really, what you want is all 3 she-elves in your party and the multi-romance mod so that you can have your pointy-eared travelling harem with you at all time.
     
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  21. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    This tread:
    #drowlivesmatter
     
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  22. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
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    Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    They don't
     
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  23. Falksi Arcane

    Falksi
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    #ElfLivesMatter
     
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  24. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
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    Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    No
     
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