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Jeff Vogel Soapbox Thread

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Humanity has risen!, Nov 6, 2013.

  1. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Somebody wrote a puff piece about Jeff: https://www.pastemagazine.com/artic...ar-vision-of-videogame-designer-jeff-vog.html

     
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  2. TigerKnee Prophet

    TigerKnee
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    What the hell am I reading.

    Yes, I do wonder why repeating the same ideas over and over ad nausem isn't often praised
    :backawayslowly:
     
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  3. Mustawd Arcane

    Mustawd
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    Vogel's biggest issue isn't revisiting the same world. People would give him a lot less shit for that. For example, Stephen King practically never leaves the New England setting and sensibilities in most of his books (except for Dark Tower series). But Vogel just literally copy pasta's everything. I personally don't mind. Played Avernum 1, and it had its fair amount of issues. So I welcomed the HD version. I also welcome the inevitable Geneforge remake.

    But I can see why people just roll their eyes at his remakes.
     
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  4. gaussgunner Arcane

    gaussgunner
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    "Antonio Vivaldi composed over five hundred concertos, yet Stravinsky joked that Vivaldi actually wrote the same concerto five hundred times."

    But it's no joke to say Jeff Vogel wrote the same game 22 times... 7 remakes, 11 sequels, 4 first in series... 1 game.

    Imagine what he could've done if he'd only made 5 games in 22 years.
     
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  5. Space Insect Arcane

    Space Insect
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    It is really ridiculous to claim that Exile, Geneforge, Avadon, and Nethergate are the same game overall.
     
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  6. HoboForEternity sunset tequila Patron

    HoboForEternity
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    havent played nethergate, or the exile / pre-remake avernum games, what i played are:
    geneforge 1-5
    avadon 1&2
    Avernum eftp and crystal souls

    they're pretty different in core, but similar in packaging
     
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  7. gaussgunner Arcane

    gaussgunner
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    I've played Avadon and Crystal Souls, and 20 mins of Geneforge 1 demo just now. Same engine, same mechanics. Slightly different graphics, items, classes, skills. Only the maps and stories are different.. but who plays these games for the story? They're video games. You go out and kill everything. The End. Gameplay-wise they're 90% identical.

    When I played Avadon I thought it was a pretty good first effort, maybe Vogel's 2nd or 3rd game, not his 20th. It's like he declared his core engine "good enough" after his first few games and never felt the urge to change anything or even polish it.
     
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  8. TigerKnee Prophet

    TigerKnee
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    So, you're not a storyfag then.

    Geneforge is generally praised for its Writing/C&C, the ridiculously repetitive filler combat being the criticism that you have to slog through to actually advance the plot.
     
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  9. Space Insect Arcane

    Space Insect
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    Geneforge has a good setting, a good faction system, a good story, and pretty good exploration. Unfortunately, you have to get through so much trash combat. In my opinion however, it was worth it.
     
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  10. HoboForEternity sunset tequila Patron

    HoboForEternity
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    On the othe hand, while more hated series, avadon series has some of the best, and frustratingly creative boss battles
     
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  11. Space Insect Arcane

    Space Insect
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    Try to think of the way that Jeff Vogel uses his engine as the same as the Infinity Engine was used. Just because Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment used the same engine does not make them the same game.
     
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  12. gaussgunner Arcane

    gaussgunner
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    So would you say it'd be awesome if Jeff remakes Geneforge as a point'n'click or visual novel? Not trolling, honest :)

    I do feel the writing and combat are both worse off for the forced marriage. Combat doesn't make the story any more interactive; the writing doesn't make the combat meaningful. I would rather have better-balanced combat that stands on its own, with minimal writing. But I would play a VN if I thought the writing was as good as a decent book or movie.
     
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  13. Infinitron I post news Patron

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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2016/09/no-video-games-arent-art-were-better.html

     
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  14. HoboForEternity sunset tequila Patron

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    :salute:
     
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  15. Elwro Arcane

    Elwro
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    Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
    :salute: I've always liked his writing, also in his games :)
     
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  16. taxalot Gone forever. Patron

    taxalot
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    Codex 2013 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
    That's a lot of text to write for the effort of not making a point.
     
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  17. Agesilaus Antiquity Studio Patron Developer

    Agesilaus
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014
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  18. V_K Arcane

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  19. himmy Arcane

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    John Waters is a niche film director famous for his high-camp films and Jandek is this outsider artist who sort of intentionally never broke into the mainstream, preferring to hang around on the fringes of the music industry. I guess they're both, like Vogel, cult-creators that are semi-worshipped by their fans, yet remain completely unknown to the outside world. Cases in point, your comment and the fact that I have no idea who the other two guys are.
     
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  20. duanth123 Arcane

    duanth123
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    All the intensity of a rebellious teenage girl.

    The expression "Never meet your heroes" comes to mind.

    yeah and it better be another Geneforge, motherfucker.
     
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  21. ColCol Arcane

    ColCol
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    I would honestly like to see him start a kickstater and make a game not limited by his usual weaknesses.
     
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  22. HoboForEternity sunset tequila Patron

    HoboForEternity
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    Mid budget jeff vogel game wil be awesome. He write and design, outsource the art at programming little.

    Hell, at least he should take an apprentice before he croaks out.
     
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  23. Morkar illiterate

    Morkar
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    I ... I ... I mostly agree with him!?
    :what:

    That was unsuspected.

    :bro:

    Hope he gets some steam with his new self awareness to improve on his game mechanics by making them a bit more complex again and not trying to streamline everything.
     
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  24. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2016/09/a-very-long-post-about-how-to-become.html

     
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  25. Mustawd Arcane

    Mustawd
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    Full of cliches is right, but sound advice at least. Especially the college piece.
     
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