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Jeff Vogel Soapbox Thread

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Humanity has risen!, Nov 6, 2013.

  1. Beastro Arcane

    Beastro
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    I like reading history and I find when it's dry and lacks pretense there's a sense that you reading something from someone at least trying to just put a viewpoint out and can leave the entertainment angle to the subject presented (a extraordinary fact is infinity more entertaining to me than the presentation unless you're going for humour in a biographical setting, especially with someone innately humorous like Churchill).

    Going in at first it was out of interest seeing what the maker of Geneforge has to say about games given his years in the industry and that when I usually do it's in the latest thread that's popped up in my Alerts.

    The problem reading through this last one is, the conceit isn't simply in tone, it's in the very heart of the article. He thinks there's this biiiiiig question fighting over and he has the answer and it's the most simple answer possible not realizing he simplified things so much trying to find an answer he completely missed the point and took the word "game" too broadly when the issue has nothing to do with that but video games and everything that comes loaded when you say that word.

    You say "video game" to someone and it instantly brings to mind Super Mario Bros or anything else with a focus on gameplay as well as what a controller or mouse and keyboard and what comes to mind with what you mainly do with those things within video games.

    No one hears "video game" and thinks of the something like Gone Home. You mention a game like Gone Home and your mind focuses on how little use your controls matter in the course of the game.
     
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  2. gaussgunner Arcane

    gaussgunner
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    In the context of software... if you have to ask whether it's a game, the answer is no.
     
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  3. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Latest Vogelblabber: http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2018/01/cuphead-cruelty-and-selling-unfairness.html

     
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  4. CryptRat Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Developer

    CryptRat
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  5. Siveon Bot Patron

    Siveon
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    Well, no ponies at least.
     
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  6. Mustawd Arcane

    Mustawd
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    Was unsure which thread to post this in. I guess technically this is the general Jeff Vogel thread.

    Anyway, he did an AMA today on leddit. Some tidbits from it:



    https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/7vyv09/im_jeff_vogel_founder_of_spiderweb_software_since/

    EDIT: Can someone comment on his planned changes to Geneforge? Not sure i like the idea that's he changing so much form the system.
     
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  7. Mustawd Arcane

    Mustawd
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    :roll:

    EDIT: That's basically the items about the new game. The only other thing I can think of is that he still hasn't decided on the engine to use. He's a C++ programmer so one that uses it and one that he can keep the source code is what he's looking for. Someone mentioned GoDot (which I think recently got C++ support IIRC), and he said he'd look into it.

    The rest of the answers are kinda historical tidbit son his careers and his past games (like he wont make another historical rpg again. And Avernum 4-6 might get remastered but not for a while).
     
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  8. Lhynn Arcane

    Lhynn
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    Have the cuck rerelease exile trilogy + blades for newer systems for fucks sake.

    And he should make that new kikestarter game on exiles engine, all ones used in his later games are complete and utter shit.
     
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  9. Mustawd Arcane

    Mustawd
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    Someone with leddit access should ask him why he went form a 6 man party in the Exile games to a 4 man party for avernum.
     
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  10. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Average Manatee
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    Well Geneforge 1 had basically no incentive to keep around creations. They scaled straight linearly up off level and levelups were 1/2 as powerful as base levels (IIRC), so every time you got a new creation level or slightly better creation equipment you'd resummon your whole lot. This was changed drastically in later Geneforges so that leveling up creations over time was stronger and less expensive in creature maintenance mana than summoning newer, highly level stuff. So it sounds like he wants to go back to more of the Geneforge 1 style. I'm OK with this since I really dislike the idea of such a huge incentive to protect creations since it's effectively just forced reloading as the enemy AI is pretty much random in what it targets, hits for 2/3rds of most creations health, and randomly stuns or paralyzes stuff so it can't escape. On the other hand I'd like some incentive not to ditch creations constantly or just throw them in a meatgrinder to kill one thing per wave in a difficult level before retreating to resummon and do it again. If a balance can be reached it will improve the game.

    More significant customization, I don't know what could be added that fits. Some kind of perk system for creations? But there are already 3 separate lines of creation (magic/fire/battle), having too much customization could easily destroy the uniqueness that each line is supposed to bring.
     
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  11. gaussgunner Arcane

    gaussgunner
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    Icon art... I don't like the sound of that. Not that there's anything wrong with mobile visual novels.

    People are telling him to look at Godot.. he could do shitty 3D no problem.. but he wants to integrate his existing C++ code with it. Might be easier said than done; graphics programming has changed a lot in 20 years, and being an engine, will it expect him to do things its way. But he's not throwing everything away so that's good news.
     
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  12. gaussgunner Arcane

    gaussgunner
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    Yeah... like the drama stars in Frayed Knights.. separately for each creation? So if you've got a winning creation you want to keep it going at least until it can unleash that massive attack.
     
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  13. fantadomat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    fantadomat
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    Lets hope that the new game will be weird like geneforge. Just finished the new remake and intend to replay geneforge 2 or 3. Just have to make every item weightless. Really like the junk bag addition and how you don't get weighted down from your inventory and only form equipped items. Also increasing the money cap will be good. Anyway,the games are masterpieces in my book.
     
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  14. ilitarist Learned Illiterate Village Idiot

    ilitarist
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    I asked him about older games having more stuff.

    Q: What would you say to people who reminiscent about older games abundance of spells and skills etc?

    A: Most of the bajillion skills in the old game were dumb. Also, I can barely manage the balancing of 62 skills. I just couldn't handle 162.
    :littlemissfun:

    I agree though. All those skills do not add much to older games.
     
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  15. V_K Arcane

    V_K
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    So he's making a blobber?
     
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  16. Pope Amole II Prestigious Gentleman Nerd Commando Game Studios Developer

    Pope Amole II
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    From the description of that, it sounds more like return to the Exile graphics - at least, I dunno what else could "icon based" mean. Which is kinda ridiculous, but what you can do, greed is a mortal sin and it shows.
     
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  17. Terra Learned

    Terra
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    I'm dubious of Vogel getting the funding he wants if he's sticking steadfastly to his "I don't like music" excuse. Not sure that'll fly with KS backers in the wider world beyond his niche. I think it's more likely that he doesn't want to pony up the cash for new tunes with each game really.

    Sent from my SM-J510FN using Tapatalk
     
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  18. fantadomat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    fantadomat
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    What music do you play while playing his games? I go for something more folk/ethno like medievalbabes or some roman/byzantian music,german and celtic is ok to.
     
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  19. V_K Arcane

    V_K
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    I always turn music off in games - it's rarely good and always distracting. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this.
     
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  20. Mustawd Arcane

    Mustawd
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  21. Mustawd Arcane

    Mustawd
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    You're not alone. :love:
     
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  22. supervoid Erudite

    supervoid
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    For some reason they are calling small graphics "icons". From their note for artists (it's years old):
     
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  23. ilitarist Learned Illiterate Village Idiot

    ilitarist
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    I'm fine with his games having no music.

    This is one of the things you either do well or do not do at all. He doesn't have any genius composer lying around and no orchestra.

    I'm fine with games having atmospheric music necessary to properly *feel* those games. Many big games are partly defined by their music. Whether you like those games or not but all the Baldur's Gates, Fallouts, Arcanums, Mass Effects, Final Fantasy, Elder Scrolls and so on are unthinkable without their music. But many games have no real identity in that regard. Like Dragon Age, Witcher and many other might have as well have no music even if it's good. They're not defined by music, their atmosphere is fine even without it. Vogel's games are fine without the music.

    I usually listen to whatever I'd listen to if I'd just have a walk. Metal. Still as it's fantasy I am drawn to Power Metal like Blind Guardian who made some awesome music for some crappy games.
     
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  24. ilitarist Learned Illiterate Village Idiot

    ilitarist
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    Sad! They force me to switch resolution to something like 1600x900 on my 4K screen to be able to reliably click stuff and read fonts. For fonts they have a special option, for graphics - not so much.
     
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  25. fantadomat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    fantadomat
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    There are a lot of capable and cheep composers in East Europa mate,the most big names in the entertainment industry are shit. Here is a good example:
     
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