Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

KickStarter Jon Shafer's At the Gates

Destroid

Arcane
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
16,628
Location
Australia
Damn, this looked like it had a lot of game put together already in 2014 :(

Cleveland Mark Blakemore

I read somewhere that the broad strokes of game development were the easy parts; It's the nitty gritty details that consumes the most development time.

Do you agree?

I've made several myself (mostly game jams), and this is true.
 

Cleveland Mark Blakemore

Golden Era Games
Übermensch Developer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
11,557
Location
LAND OF THE FREE & HOME OF THE BRAVE
Damn, this looked like it had a lot of game put together already in 2014 :(

Cleveland Mark Blakemore

I read somewhere that the broad strokes of game development were the easy parts; It's the nitty gritty details that consumes the most development time.

Do you agree?

It is like that in all software development.

Two hours to build the data loader, editor and repository. Six hours to get the damn input keyboard to fold up when tabbing away from it.
 

Grotesque

±¼ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
8,987
Divinity: Original Sin Divinity: Original Sin 2
So backers got royally screwed over.
Another successful kickstarter story for the archive
 

Alienman

Retro-Fascist
Patron
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
17,046
Location
Mars
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
So what kickstarters are actually considered good/success?

The only one I can think off that I really enjoyed was Original Sin even for it's flaws, like story telling. Okay, Xenonauts was pretty good too, but it wasn't the super sequel to X-com that I hoped it would be.

Pillars. Enjoyable at times, but a far cry from the Baldur's Gate magic.

Wasteland 2. Started out pretty good, but just turned mediocre so fast. Haven't even finished it yet.

Shadowrun. Total disappointment for me. Haven't played the follow up games, but I have heard they are better. The first one felt like a fancy mobile game.

Torment. Well we know that one... not played it yet, but...
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,889
So what kickstarters are actually considered good/success?

The only one I can think off that I really enjoyed was Original Sin even for it's flaws, like story telling. Okay, Xenonauts was pretty good too, but it wasn't the super sequel to X-com that I hoped it would be.

Pillars. Enjoyable at times, but a far cry from the Baldur's Gate magic.

Wasteland 2. Started out pretty good, but just turned mediocre so fast. Haven't even finished it yet.

Shadowrun. Total disappointment for me. Haven't played the follow up games, but I have heard they are better. The first one felt like a fancy mobile game.

Torment. Well we know that one... not played it yet, but...
Grim Dawn.
 

Doma

Augur
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
311
Location
Norway
So what kickstarters are actually considered good/success?

The only one I can think off that I really enjoyed was Original Sin even for it's flaws, like story telling. Okay, Xenonauts was pretty good too, but it wasn't the super sequel to X-com that I hoped it would be.

Pillars. Enjoyable at times, but a far cry from the Baldur's Gate magic.

Wasteland 2. Started out pretty good, but just turned mediocre so fast. Haven't even finished it yet.

Shadowrun. Total disappointment for me. Haven't played the follow up games, but I have heard they are better. The first one felt like a fancy mobile game.

Torment. Well we know that one... not played it yet, but...


SR: Hong Kong is much better than the first. Even has a redesigned matrix that does not suck.

WL2 and Pillars are both successes when it come to Kickstarter. Put a ton of hours into both.

As for upcoming games that I have backed, I think Battletech looks pretty sweet. Lets hope its any good :)
 

Doma

Augur
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
311
Location
Norway
I admit that I backed Star Citizen back in 2012 when it was first announced. But back then it was just "The guy who made Wing Commander and Freelancer wants to make another game".

It was not the gigantic behemoth of a cocktease project we got going now.

Tbh, I just want a good Freelancer 2 to play with my mates.. :(
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
:necro:

Out of paradox, back to the gate: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jonshafer/jon-shafers-at-the-gates/posts/2049993

Project & Personal Update

Hey all,

You may have heard, you may not have, but recently I've parted ways from Paradox. In the end it really was creative and cultural differences - I can't go into details and will simply leave it at that. I still love Paradox and its games, but things sadly just didn't work out. I'll still always be rooting for all my friends over there, and wish them the best of luck.

So what's next?

I'll be focusing on At The Gates again. I can honestly say it'll be nice to go back to working on it full-time now that I've had some space and can return with fresh eyes and enthusiasm.

So what's happened with AtG?

I got burned out, to be honest, and ultimately wasn't really sure how to wrap things up in a way I could be proud of. I'm a perfectionist, and at times that trait definitely works against me. It sounds obvious of course, but when you're years deep in a project, have a task list a mile long, and run your own company with one full-time employee it's easy to lose sight of the fact that actually finishing something is more important than making sure it's perfect. Needless to say, it's been a hard lesson. I'll probably always lean a bit too far in that direction, but at least now I'm aware of that and can fight against it.

I made a few attempts at getting back into things but it became truly overwhelming at a certain point, so I stepped away. I'm not proud of that, and I apologise to all of the people I've let down. Making a full-scale 4X game mostly by yourself is an insane undertaking, and not one I would recommend. I thought I could pull it off within the time frame of a normal game's development cycle, but that was an incorrect assumption.

I had hoped my time at Paradox would serve as a source of inspiration, and fortunately I was definitely right about that. I learned a lot even in the short amount of time I was there, and have a clear plan on the design front for how I want to finish up AtG now. I've also recruited new help on the production and AI programming side to assist in shipping this bad boy, so it won't all be on my shoulders any more.

So what's the plan then?

The main places where AtG still needs attention are the mid-game (somewhat) and the late-game (a lot). The first few hours are very solid (aside from bugs and an outdated tutorial), so the goal now is a complete experience from start to finish.

To achieve that we're going to modify the arc of the game from what was originally pitched. I kept banging my head against the same wall over and over again, but the time away has allowed me to explore a new approach I'm confident will be superior. Instead of just migrating around the map for ten hours as resources run out all around you, roughly a third of the way in you'll start to settle down before building a secure kingdom and eventually confronting the Romans directly.

While this might sound ambitious the mechanics actually won't need to change much. 90% of what's in the game now can stay exactly the same, though we will be incorporating permanent structures in order to foster this new approach. I've also brought borders back in a related change (the main challenge right now is how exactly to transition between transient and permanent ownership of map structures), but we have yet to fully playtest the change - I'll keep you guys updated on the results.

Speaking of which, from here on out I'll be posting a project status update on the 1st of every month. I've been bad about this in the past, I know. I basically stepped away from social media last year, but I'll be active again here and on Twitter so if you have any questions (or justified rants) I'll be around to answer them. As for when the game will be done, I can't say for certain until I've built a task list based on our new, final objectives and had a couple other folks double-check things, but the target is mid-2018. Estimates from the last year or so have been based on part-time work, which is incredibly hard to get right with a big project like this, so I'm optimistic that things will turn out better this time. Could the game slip again? Of course, but I'll make sure to let you know if it does along with what progress we're actually making along the way.

Thanks to all the backers and fans who've hung around over the years. I promise there truly is a good game here, we just need to finish it. It's been a long road, both for the game and me myself. But now it's time to finish what we started. Thanks for sticking with us!

- Jon
 

rezaf

Cipher
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
650
Isn't that basically the same premise he posted when he tried to explain away his last hiatus? Or was it the one before that? I kinda lost track...
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
December update: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jonshafer/jon-shafers-at-the-gates/posts/2060227

Hey all,

This monthly project update will be dedicated to talking about the mid-game, as that's currently the largest challenge remaining.

One of the biggest challenges with AtG is figuring out exactly what the arc of the game is. All along we've known it's about "barbarians", moving around the map, depleting resources, the seasons, and so on. But as I alluded to in my last update the vision of having the entire experience be based on migration wasn't something that held up over the course of a multi-hundred-turn game. So it's been time to evaluate what that extra step is, as is often the case in developing a big, complex game. You start with an idea and need to iterate on it in order to reach full potential. Having good, solid, fun mechanics are a nice start, but that only holds up for so long. You need a cohesive "fantasy" to tie it all together, to provide a reason why you're playing in the first place.


So what's that cohesive fantasy in AtG?

First of all, this is a survival strategy game. It's not so much a game about a continuous upward arc throughout history, ala Civ, but about fighting against the world and the odds in order to make it. The fantasy is also tied into the subject matter: in this case, the fall of the Roman Empire, and the place of the Germanic Tribes within this new world order.


So how does that translate into a strategy game?

AtG will now comprise of three "acts". The first will be based on survival and migration, and embody the philosophy which has defined the game thus far. The second act will be settling down and establishing a kingdom, putting your stamp on the world. The third will be defending and reinforcing this new polity, protecting it from those who seek its destruction - the Romans in particular.


In detail, this means two big changes: declaring your kingdom and "Control".

Declaring your kingdom is an important dividing line between the early-game and the mid-game. It will now be an action you declare which causes your Settlement to be permanently fixed in place for the rest of the game. It will also cost a small amount of Resources, but also provide a large bonus to compensate. In a sense, it's an important punctuation mark on transitioning into an important new phase of the game.

Control is, in essence, borders. To prevent players from simply building and capturing Structures anywhere on the map there needs to be some kind of rule dictating what you can own, where. Previously you could only construct things adjacent to your Settlement, but they would remain online after you moved away. This was strategically interesting, but somewhat confusing, and doesn't really work super-well with the new concept of having a glued-in-place Settlement. Control now extends from every Structure you own, giving your kingdom the ability to grow over time, and building certain special Structures will now allow you to plant your flag anywhere on the map, as long as you have the proper Clans and Resources to allow for it.

Together these two changes will reshape what the mid-game looks and plays like. Can't show them off in-game just yet, as they're currently in-progress. On the 15th though I'll be back with another post which articulates what all of this means in detail. 'Til then!


- Jon
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
He's keep doing monthly updates.

Second December update (makes up shorter January update): https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jonshafer/jon-shafers-at-the-gates/posts/2072199

January update: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jonshafer/jon-shafers-at-the-gates/posts/2082346

February update about the diplomacy system: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jonshafer/jon-shafers-at-the-gates/posts/2104676

...and some screenshots:

Screenshots!
The first couple images here show off the new tutorial system.

It's mostly made up of basic popups triggered by particular events (e.g. if you're running out of food), but the cool part of the system is that most of it is optional. This supplements the fancy tooltips-in-tooltips system we started working on early in the project, and together should provide a much smoother on-ramp into the 4X experience than any previous title.

a6dee63207108aa7b0096914a568a14b_original.png


Optional tutorial follow-up explanations.


The system is also cool in that the tutorial messages themselves can be nested multiple levels deep.

4fd57ddbd939c32cc1f4081284f9032f_original.png


Tutorial messages can now be embedded and link to one another like tooltips.


We've also made sure everything is accessible in one place, just in case you want to go back to something later, or maybe turn off the tutorial system entirely and explore the in-game help at your own pace.

0c83e1be0a53b09e387ecfe70b5d58c4_original.png


The game help screen.


You can access this screen either by pressing the '?' button in the upper-left or by pressing the ? key. Not particularly fancy, but it gets the job done!

Speaking of ways to make the game easier to play, I may I've touched on the 'Notes' system in the past, but I can't help but show it off here now, as it was a really helpful feature in my latest playtest.

Right-clicking on any Clan Card brings up a screen which allows you to attach a colored note to the bottom.



b5195006f30686648e1cad8e5c40e9d7_original.png


Adding a note to a Clan Card.


247abb9f7aa25a574f0b45b2aed11632_original.png


Clan Card notes in action!


This feature is rather handy, as it makes it easy to keep track of who you want to do what, something that's pretty important in a game in large part about managing Clans! It's especially useful when you have to stop playing for the night and would otherwise have no clue what you were up to the next time you pick things back up.

It's also possible to write notes on the map itself in order to keep track of spatial information, e.g. where to construct that Logging Camp or cut a path through the forest in order to make it easier to get around.

25d0f1a1f106da9f69f124dd9c608ce9_original.png


Tile notes revealing my grand plans for the forest.


The last screenshot I'll include shows off the new 'Declare Kingdom' button you might have noticed in one of the previous screenshots. It doesn't show much in and of itself, but I promise the button does work! Just need a bit more Parchment...

faac7b4298a2c34f2b9af649dd004e2d_original.png


Declaring a Kingdom! Well... eventually.


These screenshots are actually from a pretty interesting playtest that I've been writing up notes for. I'll probably compile them into a future update post giving a more in-depth look at how the game plays out.

This was a pretty tough and interesting game where I found myself in the far north without many Resource Deposits but plenty of Forests to harvest Timber from. It also brought up some interesting design questions (How accessible should Resources be? How much variance between starting locations should there be?), so it would be a fun game to explore in more depth.

8f577e7822ebd9ed1714eac59a436037_original.png


Brrrrr...


That's it for now. Thanks again for reading, and we'll be back with another update soon!

- Jon
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
:necro:

Coming next month:





At the Gates is a 4X grand strategy game from Jon Shafer, designer of Civilization 5.

You are a Dark Age lord. Your destiny is to build a kingdom in the shadow of the crumbling Roman Empire. Explore the dangerous landscape around you, harvest its resources, and build a mighty economic and military machine. Your clans have their own personalities and desires, so carefully consider how you use them.

It won't be easy. Your path is unsure. Overcome your immensely strong neighbors. Outlast the frigid winters of the far north to discover a source of gold and vast riches.

Are you the leader who will usher in a new era of European history? Or will you be forgotten?

--- Features ---

An Evolving Map

Seasons and weather dramatically transform the landscape around you. The river that once served as a barrier in the summer might become a highway in the winter - for both you and your enemies!


Character Management

Each of your clans has unique traits and desires, so choose carefully how you use them.


Survival & Roguelike Elements

Keep your clans fed through the harsh winter. Resources run out so always be hunting for more. Your neighbors can be immensely strong. Every game poses new challenges and opportunities.


Watercolor Art Style

A beautiful watercolor landscape serves as the canvas for your clever economic and military strategies.


Tooltips-in-Tooltips!

AtG features a revolutionary user interface which utilizes "tooltips-in-tooltips" for the very first time, making it far easier to learn without sacrificing any gameplay depth.
 

Got bored and left

Guest
Wow, I stopped paying attention to this ages ago. Considering how much Civ sucks these days, I might give it a try.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.pcgamer.com/the-new-game-from-civ-5s-designer-is-all-about-conquering-rome/

The new game from Civ 5's designer is all about conquering Rome
Hands-on with At the Gates.

At the Gates, the latest project from Civilization V designer Jon Shafer, has a lot of basic things in common with Sid Meier’s ongoing dynasty. It models the European world around the time of the collapse of the Roman Empire with a sprawl of hand-drawn tiles, many of which contain resources that can be exploited. We’ve got turn-based combat and the ability to tech up to better units. There’s a diplomacy system that has you sizing up everyone from the Roman Emperor to Attila the Hun.

But digging deeper, there’s a lot more different than there is familiar. And most of the changes are pretty great, breaking from the Civ formula to model a very different type of society. To start, you only get one settlement, ever. This settlement can be packed up and moved across the map, representing the great tribal migrations that took place around the 300s and 400s CE. Doing so not only offers enticing opportunities, but becomes necessary as you will eventually deplete the resources available in your starting area completely, and increasingly harsh weather will make your people long for the more fertile, marble-paved lands of a Rome in retreat.

The overall goal is to outright conquer either the Eastern or Western Roman Empire.

Units, both on the map and locked to your capital, are represented by Clans. Each has a pair of personality traits you had better pay attention to if you want to keep them happy. Each Clan can be assigned a single job, and a Creative clan will want to work in a trade, like opening a blacksmithing shop in the settlement, rather than being trained as a military unit to go out on the map and conquer. Rowdy clans don’t play well with others, and might start feuds if left in the settlement. Clans are limited by a population cap that can be expanded through spending hard to acquire luxury resources like cloth, and this hard limit forced me to make a lot of interesting decisions about how to specialize my economy.

It’s almost impossible to have a society that produces everything it needs, but a merchant caravan that arrives three times a year (with each turn representing about a third of a month) gives you the opportunity to fill in the gaps with commerce. In my most successful campaign, my Goths started with a large herd of horses and two rich coal deposits pretty close by. What we lacked was arable land and access to iron, essential for making weapons and tools. So I set some clans to be miners and others to train these wild stallions into incredibly valuable warhorses (which I did not yet have the tech to take advantage of in my own army). We produced enough coal and loyal steeds to make us very wealthy, able to buy all the iron we needed along with preserved foods like cheese to help our growing population make it through the lean winter months.

Weather has a huge impact on At the Gates’ map, with many resource deposits becoming completely unusable in cold or snowy weather. Investing in agriculture lets you build up a large stockpile of food, but you’ll have entire clans producing nothing in the colder months. By contrast, focusing on hunting (especially if you can get a hold of salt to cure your meat) provides a year-round trickle that will keep your people fed, but doesn’t provide much of an emergency stock. Entire tiles can also be flooded by rain, particularly next to major rivers. And there is a full supply system that will slap your clans with attrition if you send them wandering too far from the settlement once winter hits.

The overall goal is to outright conquer either the Eastern or Western Roman Empire by sending an army to take their capital, or to be proclaimed Magister Militum of Rome by sending your loyal clans to serve as legions and eventually hand power over to you. The latter requires a powerful economy, as you’ll need to equip martial clans with the best armor and weapons available and will not have access to them for conquest or defense once they’ve been sent to Rome. In the early game, both Roman Empires can swat away your cagey tribal warriors with ease. But as the years march on, their decline progresses and their underbelly grows riper for your spears—spears which, by then, are hopefully made from fine, castle-forged steel.

The big mid-game shift comes when you decide to proclaim a kingdom, fixing your capital in place and ending your tenure as nomads. At this point, it becomes possible to set up watchtowers to extend your civ’s zone of influence and, with access to stone, create permanent resource-extracting buildings that won’t deplete the tile over time, like the wooden ones available to migrators do. When and where to proclaim a kingdom is a puzzle I wasn’t quite able to test my wits against in the 100 turns of the demo I played, but it seems like a rewarding way to force you to change up your thinking partway into a campaign.

I wasn’t as impressed with a few technical aspects of At the Gates. There is some noticeable interface hitching, clicking on goods on the caravan screen didn’t always properly bring up the trade menu, and I got a persistent tooltip error past about turn 50 any time I opened the tech tree that made it difficult to select my next research path. In addition, the three campaigns I played close to the turn limit would eventually hit a point where they would consistently crash to desktop when I ended a specific turn, preventing me from ever actually reaching turn 100. Ending turns also lacks an animation, forcing the entire screen to freeze up for a few seconds, which was a minor but ongoing annoyance.

It’s clear that At the Gates needs a little more time in the oven, but the design direction it’s taking is very promising. Compared to Civ, it’s a much more detailed and granular modeling of history that still provides that zero to hero feeling, beginning with not much more than a circle of tents and working your way up to a kingdom to challenge Rome. By killing some sacred cows that Firaxis seems hesitant to, it shines a light on how this genre could and should evolve.

At the Gates will be releasing on January 23, nearly six years after its announcement on Kickstarter.
 

Alpan

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
Messages
1,340
Grab the Codex by the pussy Pathfinder: Wrath
Wow, I stopped paying attention to this ages ago. Considering how much Civ sucks these days, I might give it a try.

As the architect of V, he's one of the main reasons behind the feeling of Civ sucking these days.
 

tsiforb

Learned
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2013
Messages
87
From the forums

AtG is almost ready to be released, but that doesn't mean there won't be bugs and it certainly won't be perfect in terms of pacing, balance, AI, etc. So the plan is to release patches over the next several months on a fairly regular schedule:


• 1.01 … 0-2 weeks after release … Stability

• 1.1 … 4-6 weeks after release … Balance

• 1.2 … 8-12 weeks after release … Strategy + Mod Support

• 1.3 … 5-7 months after release … AI + Diplomacy


This doesn't mean support for the game ends after this, but the above is already set-in-stone and I want you all to be in the loop with regards to the plan. It's also possible things will change a bit, but if and when this happens I'll be sure to post here and let you know.

- Jon

It's pretty much the norm at this point, but this implies it may be releasing a bit undercooked.
 

Got bored and left

Guest
Eh, I didn't mind V all that much.

*ducks behind cover*
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom