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Eternity Josh Sawyer reflects on his failure with Pillars of Eternity

Discussion in 'Obsidian Entertainment' started by Roguey, Nov 3, 2019.

  1. biggestboss Savant

    biggestboss
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    I don't care about why the character says it. I care that my character says "I. Hate. Boats." with that exact wording and punctuation.
     
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  2. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    LotRO’s Loremaster started out* that way. Now it has a pet who can solo most of the content on top of nuking.

    * - DreadLocked by goblins in Limuel’s Vineyard. Good times.
     
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  3. Jason Liang Arcane

    Jason Liang
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    Skipped 13 pages to say this.

    My experience playing POE 1: I spent two hours with a Ranger before I realized that combat was useless since it doesn't give experience points. So I restarted rolling a Rogue, and solo'ed game in 8 hours stealthing by 90% of the encounters and sniping the rest one enemy at a time.

    What is wrong with POE 1 (in order from worst to least worst):

    #1. Absurd loading times
    #2. Stupid, embarrassing AI. The enemies basically have no AI. I would kill one enemy, run away, the rest go back into position, then I snipe another one, etc.
    #3. Terrible, boring spell system. After playing around with Eladir Aloth (whatever his name is) and the Chanter, I had no interest whatsoever in the game's magic system with cookie recipe spell effects
    #4. Without a well developed spell system, class differentiation falls apart. Honestly, the only enjoyable class was Rogue
    #5. Without combat experience, combat becomes a chore with no reward, when combat is supposed to be the main gameplay. Therefore basically POE has no real gameplay since stealthing past a fight is the correct choice 90% of the time
    #6. Terrible stat system/ mechanics/ skill system
    #7. Classes are designed for soloing, not for party play. Most classes have so many per/encounter, per/rest abilities that need to be micromanaged that it is a chore with a full party
    #8. The rhythm of the game is off. In the same way that both Arcanum and Path of Exile also have the rhythm off. Infinity Engine got the rhythm of rtwp perfect

    Sawyer is probably responsibly for #3, #4, #5, #6 and #7... that puts a lot of the responsibility on him.

    UPDATE: Just looked over recent POE discussion. It seems like solo PotD is the only really interesting way to play the game. And even then, rogue is not even considered the easiest class, supposedly Chanter, Wizard, Cipher, Druid, Priest and Paladin are all even easier.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
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  4. luj1 You're all shills

    luj1
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  5. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    Except it does, it's called filling the bestiary.


    Resource conservation is also present in PoE and it's not an inherent problem of the lack of pre-buffing, so this is irrelevant.
     
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  6. abnaxus Arcane Patron

    abnaxus
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    Soywer really should go work at Piranha Bytes. Shame his German will never exceed kindergarten level.
     
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  7. Lichtbringer Self-Ejected

    Self-Ejected
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    How many experience points are received from filling the bestiary in relation to the total amount of experience points received from quests? Also, is filling the bestiary required to hit the XP cap or is it a cosmetic feature?

    Honest question.
     
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  8. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    You get more xp from quests obviously, but I don't know the ratio. You hit the xp cap like halfway through the game (a huge problem btw), so half the content is cosmetic in terms of xp.
     
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  9. Riddler Prophet Patron

    Riddler
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    Bubbles In Memoria
    It is absolutely not needed.
     
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  10. Atchodas Savant Edgy

    Atchodas
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    You need to kill enemies so your bestiary updates and you know what defences those enemies have

    Show Spoiler
    wait ... that does not make any sense ...
     
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  11. MajorMace Learned

    MajorMace
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    Bestiary filled after defeating enemies is taken from m&mx by the way.
    Or from pokémon depending on your references.

    ps : hey guys isn't sawyer, like, stupid ? ahah high five !
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
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  12. Verylittlefishes Scholar Patron

    Verylittlefishes
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    The story and lore in PoE was actually good.

    It's the execution of that story in game format that was a disaster.

    I.Hate.Loading.
     
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  13. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    Sawyer doesn't seem to realize how consumers think.

    PoE1 sales were based on their love of BG.
    PoE2 sales were based on their "love" of PoE1.

    There, mystery solved. PoE1 was never good.
     
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  14. taviow Magister

    taviow
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    I think PoE was eventually fine but then it was too late.
     
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  15. santino27 Arcane

    santino27
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    Mechanically, I think I'd mostly agree. POE 3.0 was a huge improvement over what launched. The narrative issues didn't go anywhere though.
     
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  16. Beastro Arcane

    Beastro
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    For me it's the situational aspects that RPGs often use specifically with blood magic where your enemy needs to have blood for it to effect them. Head in with a weapon and other mundane equipment as you engage in melee combat then use the environment to fight your enemy, pick up wood to make the best fire spells you can, whatever water is around can be used to some end, maybe bring gunpowder with you to use magically in the way Gandalf suped up his fireworks with it, etc.

    The point though is to make mage users more than just death rainers who stand in place but engage more and require more equipment than a robe and wand. The Fellowship of the Ring tried to do more with the Saruman's reveal but even that has a weird vibe to it and leaves me asking why Gandalf wouldn't dedicate himself to counter Saruman's magic and then charge with his sword (The book gives the impression more that Gandalf realized resistance would get him killed and surrendered hoping to bide his time).

    T'was Elrond's in the book and created as a magical trap as the first line of defence of Rivendell, effectively just being water held back in a reserve until the Enemy might to cross which triggers it; could be seen as a good equivalent of the Watchers of Cirith Ungol.

    Even then Gandalf later brags to Frodo that it was he that added the horses to the water as he helped add power to it that made it so more potent than a simple flood.

    What Arwen does in the movie is simple RPG spell casting.

    I find that kinda thing boring as it just makes wizards a simple tier above others. Still is good in a game like Dominions.

    LOTR wizards are less than and more an amplifier of those they help. It's a reason why Saruman is dangerous but fragile reliant upon trying to use his charming less to directly dominate the way enchanters usually do in RPGs and more swaying them and causing chaos, effectively being a magical sneaky rogue or thief the way they usually play in RPGs.

    In the book there's weird moments of that with Saruman off on his own hiding himself to do things like sabotage Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli by chasing their horses off and avoiding direct confrontation with them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
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  17. Lilura RPG Codex Dragon Lady

    Lilura
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    Which is why I mentioned it. Glad it gave you an opportunity to show off common Tolkien knowledge, though.
     
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  18. Beastro Arcane

    Beastro
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    I liked that game. They really put a lot into it even if it didn't pan out all that well in the end.

    Best WoW clone/theme park MMO made I'd say.

    I only said something due to you referencing Arwen, and as I said, how different the movie portrays it.
     
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  19. Verylittlefishes Scholar Patron

    Verylittlefishes
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    I almost forgot how fucked up Saruman's arc becomes towards the end of the book, compared to the movie.
     
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  20. Tarantulos-Eduardo-Sanchez Arcane

    Tarantulos-Eduardo-Sanchez
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    POE made me think I didn't like IE games anymore unless it was those with heavy nostalgic ties like IWD or BG1. I remember many people praising POE at first and I couldn't get into it. I tried for twenty hours but just couldn't do it. It didn't feel satisfying, there was no sense of wonder, no want to keep exploring. I truly thought that maybe the IE games I loved from yesteryear came at a perfect time in my life.

    Then Pathfinder: Kingmaker came out and made me realize that wasn't the case at all. It's more that POE really was a boring slog I was supposed to like because it was pitched as a spiritual successor to a game like BG when deep down POE couldn't hold a candle to it. I didn't keep up with Kingmaker's development cycle but I don't remember it being heavily pushed as the second coming of Baldur's Gate and did its own thing which turned out to be to its advantage since when it did come out, with all those bugs and all, I was stunningly surprised.

    POE was pretentious, Kingmaker was ambitious. I'll always take ambition because it at least showed the developer had their heart in the right place. POE felt like I got catfished for years.
     
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  21. commie The Last Marxist Patron

    commie
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    Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
    Zoomer detected....there WERE games before the 21st century on PC no less that did the same thing...even way back when procolophonids walked the earth in the 1980's....
     
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  22. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    bestiaries you fill yourself are stupid
    go fucking open a book god DAMN are you really the first person who encountered a fucking goblin in generic fantasy world #329 with millions of goblins?
     
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  23. Xeon Augur

    Xeon
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    Yeah, I kinda liked Witcher's approach, where you read a book or something to get a bestiary on the monster and act on it, tho I kinda wish it had a little more impact maybe.
     
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  24. MajorMace Learned

    MajorMace
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    Sawyer himself mentioned m&mx :roll:
     
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  25. HoboForEternity sunset tequila Patron

    HoboForEternity
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    spells themselves are ok imo, but the spells effect is implemented badly. "10 seconds buff on X stats" on top of you spending alot of time micromanaging, the buff/debuff expire before you can act. in D&D ruleset based game they are usually counted / round so there is less pressure to you to decide how to act on those buff/debuff period, and ffs tracking buffs/debuffs that are counted in seconds is literally painful.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
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