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Journey to the Centre of Arcanum - CYOA

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
Patron
Joined
Dec 5, 2002
Messages
18,303
Location
Jersey for now
Well, I think the character is too much of a self-save to really influence the reporter in any way. That's why I think we should let her do her own thing.
We may be the right type in the right circumstances, but these are hardly the right circumstances.
Our little Kleinmann is a fish out of water right now.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
As I figured, Maug saw right through Kleinmann's bullshit instantly and we're now in a worse position than we were before, and we've shown our hand. This guy is our single biggest obstacle right now. Always keep our character's goals in mind, what are we here to do? I've ascertained that it's this:

  • Get a trophy of some big game critter
  • Sabotage this expedition
I see a lot of opportunities for sabotage being present because we can start talking to Langfield now:

Langfield will remain behind to off-load the scientific equipment for the expedition, while Pte. Jenks prepares a fire and builds a small shelter for the evening.
I'm under the impression that the guy is still feeling somewhat remorseful for revealing our position to the bandits, and I believe we can exploit that for our own ends. As for the second choice, clearly we should let Ms. Cochrane do her own thing so that we have opportunities to sabotage the expedition. Having her with us prevents us from doing anything nefarious, while having her with Maug prevents us from making moves against him (although the flipside of that is that it prevents him from doing anything to us as well). Therefore, we should let her go so that we have some free reign to maneuver.

I believe that the A1 voters here aren't really considering the implications of A1. You guys are worried about status, but keep in mind the bet we made; if we don't come back with a trophy and a sabotaged expedition, our status is probably going to be fucked regardless, so we damn well better make sure to keep our goals in mind. I understand that in these CYOA's there's usually some sort of pressure to always pick a choice that involves a lot of action, but in this case I feel that it's a bad call - sometimes sitting back, biding your time, and waiting for the right time to strike leaves you with a lot more room to maneuver. Since we won't be in the thick of things, we should be in a good position to take Maug out with little fuss.

B3
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
Patron
Joined
Dec 5, 2002
Messages
18,303
Location
Jersey for now
I change my vote to B3 based on Esquilax.
Let the Lulz presume.
Though I would prefer to think that we could not really effectively sabotage this expedition.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Ah, I did not notice Langfield will stay behind. That means there is something we can do that is useful. Flop from A3 to B3.
 

Rumsfeld

Scholar
Joined
May 19, 2012
Messages
116
Location
Bilderberg HQ
Always keep our character's goals in mind, what are we here to do? I've ascertained that it's this:

  • Get a trophy of some big game critter
  • Sabotage this expedition
I differ slightly in that I think our goals are to get the trophy, and return to civilisation in one piece. The latter may very well involve sabotaging the expedition, but this depends on timing. If sabotaging the expedition costs us too many casualties and leaves us in a tight spot then rather continuing with the expedition may be the path of least resistance, at least until a better opportunity becomes available.

I'd agree on the sitting back option here if there was any obvious danger and we were further into the expedition. But here we are still on the surface and establishing the pecking order - if we sit in the camp and let Maug assume some sort of leadership role (particularly after his recent 'rescue' on the train) then it limits our ability to order him into danger later on. If we're supposed to play the role of military commander we need to pick and choose the moments to sit back and the moments to make a show of taking the lead - we can't just sit back every time and expect to retain any authority. A quick, easy win seems to be available here and we aren't yet in a position to eliminate Maug so we won't be achieving that at camp either. Let's wait until the bullets are flying or there's a beast's lair to enter and then find a reason for sit back while Maug takes the lead.

A3
 

Monty

Arcane
Joined
Mar 24, 2012
Messages
1,582
Location
Grognardia
Yes I'm all for sitting back and keeping out of danger but we can't sit back every time or everyone will soon realise what a coward we are. We need to be a devious coward, and choose the occasional moment where we appear to lead from the front (when there is no danger, naturally), allowing us to pass ourselves off as some sort of leader. This is one of those moments.
 

tuluse

Arcane
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,400
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Why are we wanting to sabotage the expedition again?
The expedition is foolhardy and likely to get us killed. Sabotage seems the safest way back.

Yes I'm all for sitting back and keeping out of danger but we can't sit back every time or everyone will soon realise what a coward we are. We need to be a devious coward, and choose the occasional moment where we appear to lead from the front (when there is no danger, naturally), allowing us to pass ourselves off as some sort of leader. This is one of those moments.
We just killed 2 orks in the train robbery, I think that buys us some rep. We also warned the expedition of our rivals.

Also, remember, we're an officer and noble born. Our calling in life is in grand strategy, not running around willy nilly. That's what enlisted men are for.
 

ironyuri

Guest
Why are we wanting to sabotage the expedition again?

What tuluse said, it may be my fault for not having properly fleshed out his motivations, since the whole CYOA format restricts me from writing long descriptive passages, but basically: you're only here because you made a bet at the Club that you could get yourself chosen for the expedition. Then you made another bet that you'd bring back some grand trophy.

Not realising the magnitude of the undertaking, and because gnomes are all about personal/family honour, you're now stuck with the expedition although you'd rather be drinking sherry at the Wellington. The safest and quickest way back home, and into a considerable sum of money, will be sabotaging the expedition so that the others are killed/lost underground while you might just pop over to the Isle of Despair, or elsewhere, bag a big game animal and keep its head as a trophy (like the Stillwater Giant pelt in Arcanum it can be a fiction), and ???? -> profit.

Of course, pretty much everything I've written into the story so far is to thwart your ability to get home quickly. I enjoy the character, but I have had some trouble making his motivations believable (as long as he can get home, why doesn't he just leave the expedition behind?). Why would a noble officer in a comfortable position which is his by family name go off on an expedition like this when he doesn't give a fig for advancing himself, when his Uncle can pay the military college for it anyway? Well, because he's a gambler. Why would he stay with the expedition when it's already in trouble? Because now he has a grudge against Maug and wants to see him come to ills, for his own sense of personal pride.

As a tidbit for later, there's more to the journalist than meets the eye. Part of the reason I wrote her in is because a) I didn't have any female characters and it seems like the sausage party was going to be a bit much (and I'm not into writing cliched maidens to be rescued from some underground civilisation), b) having a journalist at hand means that I can limit/direct scheming, because now someone might be there photographing your actions, so you can't just go about shooting people in the back as a straightforward sabotage, c) she provides further motivation for Kleinmann to actually get some action and really do something, other than hide in the wings while Maug does the work, then steal the glory later.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
As a tidbit for later, there's more to the journalist than meets the eye. Part of the reason I wrote her in is because a) I didn't have any female characters and it seems like the sausage party was going to be a bit much (and I'm not into writing cliched maidens to be rescued from some underground civilisation)
...he's a tranny, isn't he?

Anyways, the same motivation by which Kleinmann decide to even come on this expedition in the first place, upholding family/personal honor through upholding the bet, can also give him reason to actually see it through To success, for family/personal prestige.
 

ironyuri

Guest
As a tidbit for later, there's more to the journalist than meets the eye. Part of the reason I wrote her in is because a) I didn't have any female characters and it seems like the sausage party was going to be a bit much (and I'm not into writing cliched maidens to be rescued from some underground civilisation)
...he's a tranny, isn't he?

Anyways, the same motivation by which Kleinmann decide to even come on this expedition in the first place, upholding family/personal honor through upholding the bet, can also give him reason to actually see it through To success, for family/personal prestige.

Yes. Depending on how people vote, will probably decide the outcome of that. I've been trying to shape the character along the lines taken by votes, while limiting voting options to the kind of things that would be "in-character", so no votes for over the top heroics, etc. as in the train situation.

At the moment, I think he's fairly neutral on the successful completion of the expedition and just wants to go home. If voting pushed towards his getting more involved in the expedition, I'd probably drive him towards trying to see it through for personal glory, while continuing to be ruthless/cowardly (perhaps trying to off Maug, etc) in other ways. Outright sabotage is not necessarily in his best interests as he needs the others for now til they actually discover something he could take home, but small sabotages (maybe he plants some of the Professor's belongings in Maug's luggage) that would enhance his standing in the group would be in-character. I'm mainly writing updates as we go (I start as soon as I take the final tally, write for 2-3 hours then post it up, although not with Part v.i, which I sat on for 2 weeks due to other things), so I'm trying to keep control of where the character goes, while allowing freedom to develop. Hopefully the narrative won't run away with itself in the mean time.
 

oscar

Arcane
Joined
Aug 30, 2008
Messages
8,036
Location
NZ
I think we can still have him want to successfully go forwards with this expedition and still be in character. Think of all the eternal fame him and his family would earn by having their name as part of the intrepid explorers who delved into the centre of the earth.

I also don't see him as a coward but more willing to leave the real dangerous stuff to the enlisted grunts like Maug. The very fact that he is a gambler indicates that he is not afraid to risk himself if he can see it as likely to resulting in him coming off better. He also seems to have a fiery temper (a true coward probably wouldn't have spoken like that to a person far stronger and larger than he).
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
oscar, it's quite apparent that Kleinmann is a huge fucking coward. For fuck's sake, this is a man who shoots his opponents in the back of the head during an honorable duel! He's clearly chickenshit, and it's no surprise that Maug sized him up accurately in just about five seconds.

In any case, the former Secretary of Defense makes some good points regarding A, so I'll think about this some more and possibly flop.

I change my vote to B3 based on Esquilax.
Let the Lulz presume.
Though I would prefer to think that we could not really effectively sabotage this expedition.

Oh certainly. Once the plot progresses, I highly doubt that it's going to be as simple as "sabotage the expedition, then gtfo". There is clearly more to the situation than this, and once we're a few miles below the Earth, we're probably going to be in a situation where we can't escape quite so easily. A lot of unexpected things are going to occur that we can't really anticipate.

However, the one thing I am certain about is that we have to take some steps in dealing with the Maug situation. Choice 2) isn't bad because it effectively neutralizes Maug as a threat for the moment. I'm not sure about 1) because I'm not sure that Kleinmann has the balls or the skill necessary to actually be a hero once shit hits the fan. He's basically a braggart and completely full of shit, so I think he should rely more on his strengths. On the other hand, there is something to be said for faking it 'till you make it.
 

tuluse

Arcane
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,400
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Meta discussion: It seems the best source for motivation to complete the journey would be the rival expedition. If we needed to beat them to the center for some personal reason I could see Kleinmann begrudgingly going ahead.
 

ironyuri

Guest
oscar I'd say you're partially right. The way grotsnik wrote the character up is based on Flashman, from discussions grot & I had. Flashman is basically an "unlikely" hero, his heroics only came about because he was trying to avoid danger and he had the persona to fool his audience.

The way I've been trying to construct Kleinmann is along the lines of a Henry Simmerson in Sharpe, whereas Maug himself is like Sean Bean's Sharpe, or Sweet William. It's the difference between a gentleman officer (whose knowledge of fighting and warfare is that of the armchair, but who has obviously been schooled in pistols and sabers) and a braggart. Kleinmann *can* fight, it's just that he'd rather *not* fight. He's angling for an easy life spent in the gentleman's club and he wants a few tall tales to tell that will amuse his drinking buddies, to get to that stage, he'll shoot anyone / everyone in the back to ensure nobody finds out the truth of his life.

Basically, he likes the idea of becoming famous for his heroics, but when danger is at hand, he's going to let others risk their lives first, and then shoot them in the back if they succeed, and claim the glory for himself. It's not that he wants the expedition to fail, but if it is to succeed and earn him fame, he either has to do something incredibly heroic (which is not his bread and butter) or he has to make sure the others meet with an unfortunate accident during their descent, leaving him the only survivor who escapes to tell the tale of the devilish beast which ate the rest of the expedition, which he managed only to escape with his wits and his pistol (which would of course be a lie).

The way I tried to write the train choice up was an example of this: We had three choices: hide, fight (dishonourably), flee.

If we'd hidden, then Maug would've been the hero and saved the train. If we'd fled, we'd have been captured and beaten/nearly killed, which might've had more severe consequences. The choice we made was a fair one, but because Kleinmann isn't the best fighter, he got the drop on the first two opponents, but when the half-ogre bandit chief came round, he has no real recourse for that.

Kleinmann is also not a genius, so he doesn't fully "get" what this whole thing is all about. The scientific aspects are beyond him, but he'll go along for the ride and the Professor's enthusiasm is hopefully infectious. If we'd taken a scientific character, he'd be here for some reason. Kleinmann is here for utterly personal reasons, which also means that he has no real idea what he's doing here yet (because nobody even knows if he'll find some great beast to slay, or if the passage to the earth will actually be real or just a myth). Because of this, I've been trying to string the narrative together update-update in a way that gives us reasons to be doing something, if not completing our overarching goals.

If for example, we'd taken the option to go home and do nothing when the Professor gave us time to prepare for the meeting, I'd planned to write in a spy from Caladon contacting the character, asking him to be a mole for them, for a sum of wealth and assistance in winning our bet. That would've given us clearer reasons, had we accepted that. But I think as the narrative goes on (and I do enjoy writing it), that we'll get into the swing more. Of course, Kleinmann might be killed, in which case we can take on the role of another character, or roll up a member of the team from Caladon and play differently. We'll have to wait and see.
 

Erebus

Arcane
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
4,763
Meta discussion: It seems the best source for motivation to complete the journey would be the rival expedition. If we needed to beat them to the center for some personal reason I could see Kleinmann begrudgingly going ahead.

Good point. It would be rather humiliating to sabotage our own expedition, make up a great story about we alone managed to survive against desperate offs, and a few weeks later, learn that the rival expedition is coming back after making some amazing discoveries.

Clearly, the solution is... accidents ! Accidents everywhere, happening to everybody ! Second Lieutenant Maug shoots himself in the back of the head while carelessly cleaning his gun ! BAM ! Professor Brockenlid suffers from a lethal and unexplainable case of food poisoning ! ARGH ! The rival expedition is buried in a sudden landslide ! BADABOOM ! And Miss Cochrane suffers from a heart attack in a midst of having sexual intercourse with a small yet impressively potent gentleman ! BANG !
 

ironyuri

Guest
*Gets pistol out
Answer the mothafucking question!

Haha, sorry bro. I'll add 4 "other" to the tally, though unless indicated I'd rather avoid homebrew schemes as it can derail a clear narrative and force the hand of the author. If there's a clear possibility of death and some hairbrain scheme can be concocted to avoid it, I'd consider writing it in, but it's often a problem in the CYOA that if you start homebrewing choices they can quickly derail the character away from its intentions (Schaefer in root's WH40K CYOA had this problem: medicae, cunning/survivalist soldier... REDEEMUH, daemonhost, dead).

As for the raccoons, we'll have to wait and see.

Inb4 a race of subterranean furries:

220px-Niels_klim_illustration_f%C3%B8rsteudgave.jpg
 

ironyuri

Guest
You know, I don't like double posting (I do, really), but could someone please tally the current votes with flip-flops for me, as the flip flops have screwed up my tally and I am too lazy to redo it myself. Can't do all the work around here bros.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
Here's the tally:

oscar A1
Kz3r0 B2
Monty A1
Salvius A4 (shoot Ms. Cochrane and make it look like an accident)
Major_Blackheart B3
Baltika9 A1
Gondolin A3
grotsnik B3
Arpad B3
Crooked Bee A1
Erebus A1
Bloodshifter A1
tuluse B3
Esquilax B3
Tigranes B3
Rumsfeld A3

Voters, give me the heads-up if I got anything wrong. A = 9, B = 7, 1 = 6, 3 = 8. ironyuri, I don't know if you're counting the votes separately or as a whole but if it's the latter, then A1 = 5, B3 = 6
 

ironyuri

Guest
I'll be writing the next update this weekend, probably over the course of Saturday/Sunday. In the mean time, I'm sitting down with a glass of wine this evening to watch this:



I watched this again last night:



And I'm saving this for next week:



I watched most of them when I was much younger, but I'm looking forwarded to enjoying them again.
 

Bohr

Arcane
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
1,878
If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well
It were done quickly.

Macbeth I:7
 

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