Kerbal Space Program

[Riel]

Just in case anyone is mildly interested in how the rest of the Duna mission went since I only posted up until I reached Ike's orbit with all ships and docked them with spare fuel to do the first refuel mission I will report briefly btu sparing you the details since they are not that interesting:

1: The MinMus refinery proved to be a very apt Ike miner, it's been officially renamed Ike Refinery after refuelling all mission fuel deposits in two uneventful trips.
2: After that I made a short trip with the lander to Ike to get XP and get science for the labs work to work on, very easy.
3: Finally when I managed to get a couple hours of real life time at a moment I wasn't tired I went for the big prize of actually going to Duna.

I took it very cautiously and aerobraked all the way to low atmosphere, it took me 4 passes.
I landed in the lowlands which gave the parachutes plenty opportunity to slow me down, so I spent only like 60M/s from Ike's SOI exit to Duna's surface (I had 3.5Km/s dV left when landed)
When coming back I was a little too overconfident and I inserted myself in Ike's orbit in exactly the wrong direction which forced me to waste like 200 m/s (not sure here) just reversing turning direction...
Still I managed to dock with EE Duna with around 1.4 km/s dV, which bodes very well in terms of assessing the ship's capabilities for more complicated missions to Duna

All in all the mission is capable of refuelling and accomplishing its objectives, so SUCCESS!!

 

[Nutria]

I assumed that Duna was the next step after the Mun & Minmus. Was I wrong? I've started over my campaign like 5 times and getting guys stranded on Duna because I forgot one part on their ship is the farthest I've gotten.

 

[Prime Junta]

I assumed that Duna was the next step after the Mun & Minmus. Was I wrong? I've started over my campaign like 5 times and getting guys stranded on Duna because I forgot one part on their ship is the farthest I've gotten.

Duna is the easiest to reach for sure.

I usually do a general rehearsal of my interplanetary missions in the Kerbin system. Happily it has three bodies which are close approximations of many of the places you can reach. If you've made a Mun return mission with a little bit of dV to spare, you should be able to deal with Duna with the same craft with some minor tweaks, like some parachutes to save dV on the way down. If your lander is very un-aerodynamic though you'll have to go straight up for a bit to get out of the Dunatian atmosphere on the way out.

 

[Hellraiser]

I assumed that Duna was the next step after the Mun & Minmus. Was I wrong? I've started over my campaign like 5 times and getting guys stranded on Duna because I forgot one part on their ship is the farthest I've gotten.

Eve is easier to reach, a landing and return from Gilly's surface has to be the easiest interplanetary flag and footprints mission with return to Kerbin from a delta-v perspective. The only thing harder than with Duna is getting a Gilly rendezvous and in general that requires a better grasp of navigation than just getting a Duna encounter (which also is not so easy, getting an Eve encounter is far easier).

The key question here is what you have a problem with. Are you running out of Delta-V on the lander or return ship? Is it difficult for Kerbals to get back to the capsule after they collect the rocks and plant flags? What is you mission profile and plan?

You should post a screenshot of your craft(s) for the Duna mission, we could probably give you some hints how it could be improved to be Duna-worthy. This also depends on the tech you have and funds.

 

[Riel]

If you are failing because you forget something basic like landing gear, ladders, parachutes or whatever do try a check-list before you launch anything you design. J had the same sort of problems in my early experiences with KSP, going to Mun only to discover I didn't have landing gear, or even a ladder to get back in the ship (*), or going back to kerbin and having that moment: Oh shit parachutes... Another favourite of mine is unmanned missions and losing coms due to lack of antenna.... Since those days I do check everything twice, and go over a basic list on my mind before I even consider launching.

I can happily say my OH SHIT! moments have decreased noticeably.

(*) Later a I learnt to use the built in RCS system in Kerbonaut's gear to just levitate to the hatch, very useful for very low G places, but the first time I went to the Mun I forgot ladders and spent like 15 minutes jumping from the ground up to the command's pod door until I managed to grab it it was a very pathetic excruciation.

 

[Nutria]

The key question here is what you have a problem with.

To be honest, mostly just that they keep updating the game and I start over so I can play with all the new features from the beginning. I gotta have the self-control to stick with one game long enough to get out there.

try a check-list before you launch anything you design

I can't understand why nobody has made a mod to do this automatically yet. I'm tempted to make one myself. In the long run it would probably take less time than what I waste on flying missions that I don't realize are doomed until an hour into them.

 

[Prime Junta]

I can't understand why nobody has made a mod to do this automatically yet. I'm tempted to make one myself. In the long run it would probably take less time than what I waste on flying missions that I don't realize are doomed until an hour into them.

You could automate a few of the checks but a lot of them really couldn't be because they're so situational. There is already an "engineer's report" there that shows some potential problems. Most of the checklist though depends on the mission of the craft so the mod would somehow need to know all about that. These have caused me innumerable facepalms but I can't imagine how it would be possible to automate the checklist because none of these are required on all craft; it's just that when they're required, they're really required.

- Parachutes
- Unobstructed hatches
- Reachable ladders
- Sufficient battery power
- Sufficient power generation
- Sufficient antennas

 

[Riel]

There's actually a couple checklist mods. I have never tried them myself but you can if you are inclined to.

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.co...ued-customizable-editor-pre-flight-checklist/
https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.co...eer-report-continued-ship-sections-continued/

 

[Norfleet]

2: My target orbit is a geosynchronous orbit around Dunna only in reverse direction....

Err...how does that work? A geosynchronous orbit has to be the SAME direction, otherwise it's not geosynchronous...

 

[Norfleet]

I can't understand why nobody has made a mod to do this automatically yet. I'm tempted to make one myself. In the long run it would probably take less time than what I waste on flying missions that I don't realize are doomed until an hour into them.

Because doomed space missions due to critical design failures are an integral part of Kerbal Space Program. Having things go horribly wrong like this is pretty much core gameplay. Even the promotional materials feature this.

 

[Prime Junta]

Because doomed space missions due to critical design failures are an integral part of Kerbal Space Program. Having things go horribly wrong like this is pretty much core gameplay. Even the promotional materials feature this.

It's highly amusing to me though that KSP has its own grogs with their wishlist for KSP2. They want n-body physics, full-featured life support, a real-scale system, replacing kerbals with humans... and no explosions!!!!111!!1one

 

[Yaar Podshipnik]

Principia is great mod for n-body physics in KSP. Life-support you have many choices, I always liked kerbalism (though it does get too invasive so doesn't play well with other mods). Real Solar System exists, though I don't think it's working on 1.7.x yet. And there was some terrifying mod putting human skins on kerbals (though not changing the models). So no idea what grogs could be missing.

 

[Prime Junta]

They want all that in the unmodded game. Also manoeuvre planning in Principia is a mess.

 

[Yaar Podshipnik]

N-body is way more difficult to play with than the simple SOI model KSP has. And I agree that Principia GUI is horrible in general, not just the planner - but I don't think it is possible to make it as simple as the default KSP widget, since that assumes that manouvers are instantaneous, while principia models the burn time.

 

[Prime Junta]

Yeah I don’t want n-body either. KSP2 has a double planet though, making that work without at least 3-body is going to be tricky. Brachistochrone trajectory planning is in though, pretty much has to be for interstellar stuff.

 

[Drax]

I dunno about that men body or brachiosaur stuff, when I fail I just add MOAR BOOSTERS until I succeed.

 

[Prime Junta]

I dunno about that men body or brachiosaur stuff, when I fail I just add MOAR BOOSTERS until I succeed.

Well you're gonna need a lot of them in KSP2. Interstellar travel is Sirius business.

 

[Nutria]

I want n-body as much as I want a game where you're a sniper and you have to actually crawl 8 hours through the grass and mud to get into position.

 

[Prime Junta]

In the meantime... I got back to more conventional Kerbal engineering. I created the MIKS, or Modular Interplanetary Kerbal Shuttle. It'll carry up to 51 kerbals almost anywhere in the Kerbol system with a minimum of fuss. It's intended for a late-game colonial liaison craft, because it does expect to be refueled at each end of the trip, and is based on permanent infrastructure serving each of the bases.

The core of the system is the Payload and Fuel Module, or PFM. It is launched from Kerbin using the Kerbin Orbital Shuttle module, or KOS:

Once in orbit, it swaps the KOS for the Interplanetary Tug (IT) module. Fully fueled (as it is after reaching orbit with the KOS), it has just over 5000 m/s dV.

The PFM/IT combination will then fly to the destination system and park itself in orbit. With the legs it has, it can reach almost any celestial body in the Kerbol system. There, it RV's with and swaps the IT for the shuttle module serving the destination body. For Laythe, this could be another KOS. For most other bodies, it could be the Munar Orbital Shuttle (MOS) or a variant. Duna would need a MOS variant or perhaps some type of VTOL airplane. Eve is probably unreachable using reusable assets and this kind of payload. Tylo might also be, or at least the Tylo shuttle would be humongous.

The PFM carries all the fuel needed for the trip, so the system doesn't require any extra refueling launches. All the modules except the PFM use RTGs for electrical power; the PFM will only be un-docked from another module during the short time it switches from one to the other so it has no independent electricity generators. It has no engines either, just RCS. However it does have a probe control point and a short-range relay antenna, so with two pilots it can easily handle the RV and docking operations with the uncrewed modules even with no connection to KSC.

 

[Riel]

Very interesting concept. What are you using as landing gear under the 4 legs in the last picture? Is that stock? Does it help with stabilizing once in contact with the surface?

I have a heavy refinery that bounces like crazy when landing...

 

[Prime Junta]

Very interesting concept. What are you using as landing gear under the 4 legs in the last picture? Is that stock? Does it help with stabilizing once in contact with the surface?

I have a heavy refinery that bounces like crazy when landing...

They're heavy hydraulic cylinders with friction pads at the ends. They're from the Breaking Ground expansion, so stock/DLC. (I have clipped them deep into the fuel tanks though.)

Yes they work, I've tuned the springiness so they take the edge off a hard landing, and the friction pads are pretty effective at stopping it from sliding. While these cylinders are pre-tuned, it's possible to make the tension adjustable in flight. So yeah it's totally possible to use these as refinery legs, both to level it and to stabilise it.

In fact I inadvertently stress-tested them because on my first trial flight I ran out of juice just a bit before touching down and dropped the rest of the way, landing quite a bit harder than I planned, and nothing broke.

 

[Prime Junta]

So hey here's another thing I made. It's a (theoretically) reusable Eve launcher. Two-stage but both stages are recoverable without mods or other shenanigans, you fly the orbiter to orbit, switch to the lifter, and glide it down.

I'm also developing the support craft for it although I doubt I'll ever fly a single recovered mission with this, it would be a tremendous amount of work. But the engineering is fun.

 

[Prime Junta]

Did a successful test run of the support plane. It grew a little and now packs an ISRU as well so it has everything needed to service the lifter/orbiter.

 

[Alienman]

Looks a bit like a Junkers 52.

 

[Prime Junta]

Looks a bit like a Junkers 52.

In the tail section perhaps? Otherwise I'm not seeing the resemblance, the Ju-52 is a three-engine and the wing has a nearly straight leading edge. (Which actually looks damn good, maybe I should redesign the wing...)