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KickStarter Kingdom Come: Deliverance - Dan Vavra's medieval chad simulator

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by conan_edw, Feb 13, 2018.

  1. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    This game has literally nothing in common with M&B. And it definitely is on par with Gothic. If there was a Gothic-like genre (after Souls-like) then KCD would be a great Gothic-like game.
     
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  2. Master Arbiter

    Master
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    :decline: of Czechia then. You would think a decade later this wouldnt be a problem. Oh well...

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Paul_cz Arcane

    Paul_cz
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    Crysis was ridiculously ahead of its time and you have to realize that current gen consoles have 2010-era CPUs in them. Tablet level Jaguar 1.6ghz. It is what it is. Hopefully next generation will use at least Ryzen.

    Because Dan Vávra, lead writer/designer has opinions that hardcore leftists (all of game press) disagree with, like this:
    https://medium.com/@DanielVavra/dispelling-the-myth-of-not-enough-diversity-in-games-7b66cde9bbeb

    And therefore he must be a nazi, as the moron logic goes.

    If you like 3D RPGs like Gothic or New Vegas, you will like KCD.
     
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  4. Grampy_Bone Magister

    Grampy_Bone
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    It all started when a Current Year garm jurnuhlist asked warhorse devs an important question: Is your game going to have black people in it??? They said no, there weren't any black people in backwater medieval Bohemia. Cue outage.

    This was at least partly in response to Vavra roasting game journos in general during the Gamergate clusterfuck. Or maybe they shot first, I don't know.

    So now people play up this stupidity by calling the game all sorts of right-wing buzzwords. Because if you don't put anachronistic cultures into your historic narrative, you are a nazi. Clearly.

    *Edit*
    Ninja'd by someone with more knowledge than I
     
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  5. Beowulf Liturgist

    Beowulf
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    Don't forget the - "Barmaids certainly did one night stands with passing black merchants on the Silk Road, so there should be black children" angle, that some "journalist" came up with.
     
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  6. Grim Monk Arcane

    Grim Monk
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    Vavra got hounded by Leftist fools for stating that people from Sub Saharan Africa where not likely to be randomly chilling out in the late medieval rural Central European countryside.

    They started spamming stuff like:
    "What about the Moors!" (They weren't all black and are more relevent to another area of Europe).
    False conflation of "medieval" with the "1500s/1600s" (when the "Age of Exploration/Colonization" was in full swing).
    Utterly failing to grasp the concept of "trade intermediaries" inspite it being the root of power, wealth, and even existence of empires and kingdoms throughout history.
    Not understanding that "knowledge about =/= contact with".

    And a bunch of other stuff which he mostly correctly pointed out was ignorance.


    Goal posts where also shifted to semantic weaseling over "PoC" also meaning other non-white/non-black groups such as Asian steppe nomads and Schrödinger examples like Jews and Roma. And promptly ignored his responses that they where either litreraly present ingame (Cumans) or mentioned and acknowledged (Link). Or then twisted as being somehow "biased depictions" that are proof of malicious agenda. (Such as steppe nomads historically famous for "loot and pillage" are shown raiding villagers...)

    And a statement basically amounting to: "Hey I'm just some random Czech dude speaking about my historical backyard, its not my job to tell you all the stories of the world." "Go find some Black/PoC developers and support their projects."

    Through the lense of idoicy "woke vision" it became:
    "I IZ DA MASTERRACE DEV AND ALL DA UNTERMENSCH BE TO PUNY IN BRAIN TO INTO GAMEDEV!!"

    The subsequent smear attempt to get him fired for "Disrespecting PoC" failed due to him being the Founder and CEO and basically going: "That's not what I said, and request denied..."
     
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  7. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    They did shoot first, before the whole clusterfuck with blacks in 1400s Silver Skalitz Vavra wasn't anti-SJW, I doubt he even knew what it meant. I guess for him it came out of nowhere so he started looking into it and discovered SJWism, GamerGate and all those goodies.
     
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  8. Grim Monk Arcane

    Grim Monk
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    That was a quote by a unspecified "consulted historian" in a post release review and shows multiple points of ignorance.

    Also something that bothers me is that they don't grasp the reality of "racial assimilation/absorption".

    I was surprised nobody mentioned this during the time leftists where posturing about Black British from the Roman Period.
    Those North Africa auxiliaries/legionnaires stationed at Hadrians Wall would have been reproductively absorbed by Celtic Briton neighbors within 2/3 generations.

    See Also: "Meghan Markle"
    [​IMG]
    Genetics isn't a one way street...
     
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  9. Beowulf Liturgist

    Beowulf
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    For people not believing their eyes, while reading this:
    "You just can't know nobody got sick and stayed a longer time," he says. "What if a group of black Africans came through and stayed at an inn and someone got pregnant? Even one night is enough for a pregnancy."
    From: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-02-20-kingdom-come-deliverance-review

    There is also this gem from the venerable RPS:
    "Kingdom Come: Deliverance isn’t propaganda, but there’s still a semi-coherent ideological framework at its core. KCD looks at medieval society through a lens of patriarchy, and the various -isms it’s associated with: sexism, classism, and chauvinism. [...]",
    I don't know what I'm writing about, but there sure is something wrong, all the people on twitter say, so I will just write "[...] the issue of race deserves further examination." And add "I’d especially like to read a critique of its portrayal of the Cumans, a Turkic nomadic people represented by other characters as vicious killers, who often feature among the ranks of your enemies.", just in case they're right.
     
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  10. D_X Arcane Patron

    D_X
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    Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Yes, because 16 square fucking kilometers of fucking 15th century Cehia is going to have a whole damn tribe of fucking Zulus running around. We wuz Czechs and shiet, gib reparashuns.
     
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  11. Wilian Arcane Patron

    Wilian
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    Divinity: Original Sin
    My understanding also on this matter is that the engine was built around the idea that CPU speeds would get faster and faster which is why it'd be easier to calculate all that clutter physics but the industry opted on dual and multicore with lower clockspeeds so it became relatively unfeasible.
     
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  12. Zed Duke of Banville Zo Kath Ra Patron

    Zed Duke of Banville
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    Kingdom Come: Deliverance is the Faery Tale Adventure of 2018. +M

    Show Spoiler
    Not really, since it doesn't have any rideable giant turtles.


    More accurate to say Kingdom Come: Deliverance is the Darklands of 2018, if Darklands were an open-world action-RPG.

    [​IMG]

    Definitely worth playing sooner than 2023.
     
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  13. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    Isn't Darklands more like a fantasy game set in realistic-ish setting?

    KCD is realistic through and through. There's nothing epic, heroic or fairytale-like in the setting, story, NPCs or the protagonist.
     
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  14. ArtB Erudite Patron

    ArtB
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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    The fantasy in Darklands is grounded in the beliefs of folk at the time. Nothing epic or heroic about it, either - just devil worshippers and witches lurking around. In that sense, the game is as strongly tethered to reality as can be - and, by video game standards, I'd say that makes Darklands and KCD at least somewhat related. And equally niche.
     
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  15. passerby Savant

    passerby
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    My understanding is, that there is nothing as easy to scale with multi cores, as physics simulation.
     
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  16. Raghar Arcane

    Raghar
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    What does it have with entities during AI calculation? It was one of my specializations decade ago, AI and artificial life, you know stuff like wolves and various other stuff like forest growing and inventing algorithms that allows simulate whole ecosystem... Of course animation of each animal is real PITA and it's definitely infeasible in garage game era where one person on team is doing in spare time two other professions thus is saving money for hiring additional developers who would in effect cause drop of work efficiency (and before they would be able to do stuff, it would be deadline) If people were as willing to do stuff, and release stuff, for free as they were 20 years ago, there would be freely usable auto animal animation model easy to integrate into any project. Current development model where money earning is more important than in house research and development, and less important than technological and art advancement of industry doesn't create tools and skills for future. It's more like model where merchants found a way how to educate themselves in simple skills, and they are using these simple skills for profit. (And they are more interested in optimization of expenses than in actual industry improvement.)


    AI goes async. One to 3 cores for simulations that goes into detail. Nearfield environment destruction is bound to graphic engine. It's typically solved by raytracing, and possibly by a buffer that holds calculated values until scene behind changes, assuming they don't pretend one bullet can slice off one tree, and keep calculation of damage per area until the possible damage moves over threshold for raytraced destructible geometry piece.

    Then you have either trigger for pre-canned animation, or they handle things by bit more computationally intensive way. (While typical animation can look better, player might notice there is something bit weird, and sometimes alternative ways are used even when they look worse. Alternative ways do have a lot of advantages, but they are much more CPU intensive.) Still an elementary stuff like breakable trees might be doable for developers that didn't bought tools and used them as office lady, but rather wrote and developed major part of code in house. (Assuming they have at least 15 people in company.)



    As for AI CPU intensiveness. I seen developers who had similarly fast stuff as I had, who compiled AI into DLL and simply restricted themselves by forcing RAM compatible model in rest of program. For me calculation of 100000+ AI was doable without problem. But of course I learned AI programming outside of school system, thus I didn't even have a chance to learn bad habits. And I think using scripting language for AI fucks stuff up.
     
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  17. throwaway Arbiter

    throwaway
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    Ok thanks for the info everyone.

    The Darklands analogy strikes me as the most apt.

    Soz for derailing with what sounds like gamergate-like BS.
     
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  18. Smejki Warhorse Studios Developer

    Smejki
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    I hate our herbalists. They are basically fairytale, without any magic. Tho they make kinda sense game-wise
     
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  19. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
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    Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Think you meant venereal.
     
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  20. AwesomeButton Cut a deal with the authorities Patron

    AwesomeButton
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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    References:
    - Witcher 3
     
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  21. IHaveHugeNick Arcane

    IHaveHugeNick
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    I thought herbalists were sort of like millers running the organized crime. I doubt if Bohemian organized crime left any documents on how they operated, so historical accuracy is impossible to achieve. Sometimes you just need to make an educated guess about how things were and try to make that guess plausible. Same goes from herbalists, yeah, we don't know if they were old ladies living in the woods talking in spooky language, but it's not out of a realm of possibility.
     
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  22. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    My understanding is herbalists were a real thing. They were usually older women collecting, drying and preparing various plants and mushrooms for food or medicine. But I doubt they typically lived deep in the forest, that would be quite ballsy and impractical. Tho I could be wrong.
     
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  23. vonAchdorf Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    vonAchdorf
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    Save the historical authenticity - burn a herbalist today.
     
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  24. passerby Savant

    passerby
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    Seriously, I remember when multicores where new, there was all the talk about the awesome physics simulation we will have in games and GTAIV and Crysis where supposed to be first attempts at things to come.
    Fast forward, 95% of gamers have 4+ cores processors, with 2 times more processing power than top of the line models from GTAIV/Crysis era and...

    GTA V has more basic physics/ destruction model than IV and we can't cut a single bush with a sword in KCD, when it would cost 1/10th processing power of one required by the mayhem one could do with a minigun in Crysis. WTF !
     
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  25. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    Both Crysis and GTA are extremely "dumb" and simplistic in their handling of the AI and the world. They're not even in the same universe with KCD. In KCD the entire world population is simulated, continuously, everywhere, which requires an enormous amount of processing power (that's why it takes so long to skip time during sleep). I imagine they wanted to save CPU power wherever they could.
     
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