Knights of the Chalice on Ironman - the ultimate challenge

[Paula Tormeson IV]

I challenge you to an ironman game in KotC.

Settings: max HP on level up, and maximize abilities set to one. Rest of the settings WAITING for POLL RESULTS.

The codexer whose characters have the most experience when his party dies will win (try to keep some account of the sum). Alternatively, whoever manages to actually beat the game will win or join the other winners, although I doubt that anyone will.

No cheating etc. You can reset a character three times at characer creation, so that's a maximum of 12 resets total.

If you take up the challenge, we will want you to post the stats and classes of your starting party.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Could be possible now that you can have friendly clerics resurrect your party members.

 

[Paula Tormeson IV]

I forgot to mention: default settings, except running away can fail.

I'll edit this post after I've made my party.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

only 3 rerolls = shitty stats
no max hp
no at least one 18 for your primary stat

this experiment is doomed, unless you grind on random encounters + level squatting which doesn't sound like fun

 

[Paula Tormeson IV]

Yeah, I tried twice and didn't get through the first encounter with the orcs.

The stats weren't shitty but I could have used better ones (my cleric had only 17 wisdom, I think; the wizard didn't have 20 intelligence, etc).

On the other hand, I think my tactics weren't all that fabulous this time either.

What would disabling monster spawning do? Naturally, areas you've cleared would stay cleared, but would it make the game easier or more difficult? How about disabling random world-map encounters?

The good thing about disabling them would be that grinding would become impossible, or, at any rate, no one could grind more than anyone else depending on his own patience and nothing else.

Suppose disabling that grinding possibility would make the game more difficult in the long run, but suppose some abilities were maximized through the settings + full hitpoints given on level up. Would that be the best way to conduct this challenge? (Remember, it's not about beating the game, but who gets the most exp.)

Of course, I'm open to other suggestions involving the ironman mode.

 

[Jim Cojones]

Well, I got killed during the attack on the tower of KotC with exactly 0 experience on my account. Mule knight, human cleric, human wizard and half-elf wizard.

Random encounters don't add much to the game. They are easy enough not to be a problem, maybe a little on the beginning when your pool of spells is drained quickly.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I think at least max HP should be allowed, plus roll 18s at char creation set to 1 ensuring you have 18 in your primary stat

 

[Paula Tormeson IV]

There's a poll now, although a bit buggy; but it serves the purpose perfectly. If I don't get votes within 20 hours then I'll make a capricious and tyrannical decision on my own.

The challenge begins in 20 hours.

I also edited the first post to mention that HPs are maximized and (minimum of) one ability per characer is maximized.

Only one try this time, or as many as you need to get through the first orc encounter.

 

[Paula Tormeson IV]

We need arguments if there is no clear poll winner.

One observation about the game: you can never escape a battle situation, unless it's a random world-map encounter (which you must escape through a dialogue option before the battle begins).

Not entirely realistic, but that's what the game is. A sort of "from battle to battle" tactics game.

 

[Ashery]

I could always start my LP back up

Ironman is really about being overly cautious and exploiting scribe scroll.

For settings: Default with a guaranteed 18 for the primary stat. Honestly, I wouldn't even mind if you spent a lot of time rolling stats if you stuck with random hp.

 

[Paula Tormeson IV]

I could always start my LP back up

Was that ironman? Do you know anyone who has completed the game on ironman?

Ironman is really about being overly cautious and exploiting scribe scroll.

It's about knowing death means death, and playing as though you were really adventuring in a hostile world without any guarantees of not running into a violent death. You would be careful in such a situation too.

Scribing scrolls is what magicians do. But there is always a cost for scribing too many scrolls...

For settings: Default with a guaranteed 18 for the primary stat. Honestly, I wouldn't even mind if you spent a lot of time rolling stats if you stuck with random hp.

Any other opinions on this?

 

[Ashery]

Yea, my LP was ironman using the settings I posted.

And by "overly cautious" I mean healing your entire group with scrolls of cure light wounds after every encounter because it costs so little xp/gold to scribe those scrolls and carrying around practically a full day's worth of spells in scroll form for both your cleric and wizard(s).

I think my party had finished the first dungeon before I stopped the LP, although I didn't post that particular update. Keeping that dwarf alive in ironman is an absolute bitch :/

 

[Paula Tormeson IV]

If spawning and random encounters were disabled, gathering little bits of experience and gold to compensate for scribing scrolls wouldn't be so easy. But would it make a difference?

House-ruling the scribe-scrolls ability away would be one possibility, but I suppose without scribe-scrolls no one will get much past the first serious encounter.

I know you probably don't want to start another ironman game from the beginning, but I'm just curious how to make the game as interesting as possible.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I think KotC isn't the best candidate for ironman. It's doomed to fail. Especially without munchkin stats & max HP, but even with all 18s & max HP it's still doomed to fail. Here's why:

- you cannot prepare before combat
- this results in encounters that are designed in a manner that initiative rolls are a decisive factor for success, (sure I would take imp initiative at lvl1 but with shitty stats eg low dex that remains a problem) meaning it's pure luck sometimes
- some encounters (surprise rounds etc) will force you to take a beating for 2 rounds before you can even act, combine this with shitty stats & HP and not being able to prebuff and it's obvious that it's only a matter of time until your luck fails you
- there is no defense to petrification and you'll have to fight gorgons several times, and once your wizards get petrified you can never bring them back (they're the only ones with stone to flesh spell, clerics don't have that so you can't get it at a temple) plus low fort types as wizards are the first to fail their saves vs petrification
-generally a lot of encounters are too luck based due to lack of preparation possibilities, that's one thing I didn't like in the game

Feel free to try it though.

 

[Paula Tormeson IV]

My wizards always have a good constitution (for concentration and hitpoints).

As I wrote before, I no longer expect to get very far on ironman; but it should be a fun little competition.

Lack of pre-buffing makes the combats more tactical.

I'm not sure I can think of better candidates for ironman, except maybe something like NotR (but that has too many soft-exploits, such as guides).

 

[Paula Tormeson IV]

Here's an idea:

Random world-map encounters AND cleared areas STAY cleared.

It currently has the most votes (whether some of them are troll votes I don't know), but would also mean escaping from a hostile place to sleep somewhere less hostile wouldn't necessarily always be an unqualified success. Of course, "running away can fail" should be turned on.

Whether you spend your time scribing scrolls or travelling (with some risk) from a hostile place to a cosy place to sleep your nights is your own business. No one cares.

Areas would stay cleared. You could grind random world-map encounters. Your business; just remember you might encounter something you weren't looking for, something that's hungry too.

HPs maximized, because otherwise you're likely to be orc-food before you ever get out of the castle. And max abilities set to one.

I suppose if someone wants to, they can exchange maximized HPs to as many re-rolls as they like, and turn on spawning if they've already started a game with such a setting. It's not a big deal, as long as it's mentioned in the final report.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

OK, I rolled up a party. One 18 at char creation and max 3 resets per char.

Darik, human Cleric (2nd roll)
STR: 15
DEX: 15
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 18
CHA: 16
Forge Weapon & Armor
Imp. Initiative

Karinna, human Cleric (2nd roll)
STR: 13
DEX: 14
CON: 12
INT: 11
WIS: 18
CHA: 10
Imp. Initiative
Sup. Concentration

Sigurd, half-elf Wizard (3rd roll)
STR: 11
DEX: 19
CON: 13
INT: 20
WIS: 14
CHA: 8
Imp. Initiative

Valina, half-elf Wizard (2nd roll)
STR: 14
DEX: 20
CON: 12
INT: 19
WIS: 15
CHA: 14
Imp. Initiative

Decent stats for only resetting 2 or 3 times.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I'm past the first battle with the Orcs fyi. No casualties.

edit:
update: I'm also past the first challenge - the 30HP centipede in one of the storage rooms in the keep. I had 2 unconscious plus the stupid beast destroyed the armors of my clerics with its rusting grasp. I had to craft new ones.

update: lvl3 achieved

 

[Paula Tormeson IV]

Here's an idea:

Random world-map encounters AND cleared areas STAY cleared.

It currently has the most votes (whether some of them are troll votes I don't know), but would also mean escaping from a hostile place to sleep somewhere less hostile wouldn't necessarily always be an unqualified success. Of course, "running away can fail" should be turned on.

Whether you spend your time scribing scrolls or travelling (with some risk) from a hostile place to a cosy place to sleep your nights is your own business. No one cares.

Areas would stay cleared. You could grind random world-map encounters. Your business; just remember you might encounter something you weren't looking for, something that's hungry too.

HPs maximized. And max abilities set to one.

I used these settings.

I got to 188 exp points from lvl 4. My raid to the nest of the spider queen was a bit too reckless. Healing scrolls wouldn't have helped my unlucky adventurers. I wasn't far from winning the battle though. Just when I was about to heal my better fighter (the one that was still alive), he got hit instead of not ... and died. That was pretty much that. The queen was already at half of her hitpoints, etc.

I had all humans except half-elf wizard with 20 intelligence and pretty good dexterity. One cleric, two fighters. The good charisma of my cleric turned out to be useful.

The other fighter had 16 strength but 18 constitution. The other had 18 strength, maybe 15 constitution. One of them had 14 dexterity, which was nice after I got an enchanted half-plate, which my favorite fighter wore for a brief while before giant spiders ate him. (Or maybe it allowed only +1 dex bonus.)

Maybe I'll try again. If you get this far, you can try again.

P.S. I had never played this game this "far" before, so there was some added challenge in not knowing for sure how tough some place was going to be. (Of course, I knew I was adventuring in the spiders' nest before the fateful encounter.)

 

[Jim Cojones]

I started playing with the new rules:

Human knight
Str 18, Dex 13, Con 17, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 16
Cleave, Improved Initiative, Forge Weapon and Armor

Human Cleric
Str 10, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 11, Wis 18, Cha 18
Improved Initiative, Superior Concentration

Half-Elf Wizard
Str 8, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 20, Wis 15, Cha 11
Spell Focus: Enchantment

Human Wizard
Str 10, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 18, Wis 11, Cha 13
Spell Focus: Enchantment, Improved Initiative

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I cleared Corinth and made the first few fights in the cave. I just made lvl5. The pre-fireball phase has been survived without casualties. It was tricky when fighting the vampire in the cave. I killed him with Cure Moderate but he'd dominated one of my wizards before, who kept casting spells on the party. Anyway, now the post-fireball phase begins... muhhahhhaaa.

I traveled to Vanicia though, to donate 1000 gold in the temple thus picking up easy 2000 XP.

 

[Big Nose George]

Post screens when you die.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I cleared the cave (except I didn't disturb the babaus & the vrock), couldn't save the dwarf, he died too fast. I'm lvl6 now and will venture to the Orc Stockade. Noone died so far, I could even avoid being leveldrained while fighting the mummy in the ancient tomb. Improved Initiative on everyone pays off.

 

[Monocause]

I wonder how will you guys manage the orc stockade. I remember a couple of fights to be nightmarishly difficult - the first dragon fight and the gnolls who surround you at the end.

I'll give the challenge a go myself though. Rolling a party now.

EDIT: My party:

MR. SMITH - Human LN Knight, (1st roll)

STR 17/DEX 17/CON 18/INT 16/WIS 10/CHA 12

Feats: Weap. focus (Longbow), Improved Initiative, Cleave
__

JOZAN - Human LG Cleric of Pelor (3rd roll)

STR 16/DEX 12/CON 12/INT 11/WIS 18/CHA 15

Feats: Improved Initiative, Scribe Scroll

__

OPTIMA - Half-Elf TN Wizard (2nd roll)

STR 10/DEX 19/CON 13/INT 20/WIS 15/CHA 13

Feats: Improved Initiative

__

FAIRFAX - Half-Elf CG Wizard (2nd roll)

STR 14/DEX 15/CON 12/INT 20/WIS 15/CHA 13

Feats: Spell Focus (Enchantment)

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

'sup guys, I'm past the dragon in the Orc Stockade!!! Had not even an unconscious one. Greater Acid Protection recommended.