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KOEI strategy titles?

Ruprekt

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What's the Codex verdict on these?

I've read favourable things about Celtic Tales, but what about the flagship Romance of Three Kingdoms series?

Via Gamefaqs I've learned that XI was decline and X the apogee; any Codex opinions there?
 

eric__s

ass hater
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Jun 13, 2011
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11 is the best, 7, 8 and 10 are roleplaying games of which 10 is the best and of all the older titles, 3 has the best AI. I think the best title in the Nobunaga's Ambition series, Iron Triangle for the PS2, is better than Romance of the Three Kingdoms 11, but they are both very good games worth checking out and there's an English PC version of 11. Celtic Tales is probably better than the older Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Nobunaga's Ambition games and has a really cool and largely unexplored setting.

If you want I could elaborate on why 11 is the best in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms series but it's mostly pretty boring and probably wouldn't make much sense if you haven't played them. Basically, I like it because everything takes place on one large map like a Paradox game, there's no separation of domestics and battles.

Anyways, yeah, they're very, very good games and they're worth checking out.
 

Tigranes

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Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
If you can stomach the graphics, etc, 3, 4 and arguably 5 were the pinnacles of the series - think of them as, say, 5/6/7 of the Final Fantasies. 3 has the best AI; 4 upgrades to a more bearable map and for the most part, adds a lot of conveniences and UI improvments without killing the gameplay; 5 is very similar to 4.

7 is worth trying if you are into the lore or really like playing the one guy that rises up through the ranks, but it is quite simplistic and far, far too easy, so there is really no strategic element. For that kind of experience I'd really strongly recommend the three turn-based, small-squad story-progression games they made, where you play Cao Cao, Zhuge Liang and Liu Bei respectively - think FF Tactics and the like, though not as complicated. They're the first, second and fifth entries in the Eiketsuden series, and I believe you can find at least the last one (also called ROTK: Legend of Cao Cao) in English somewhere.

11 finally returns to what ROTK was all about and adds several interesting things, but the AI isn't as good - still, it's worth checking out. I'd hit 3/4 first if you can find translated versions. Unfortunately I can't help, as I played these games in Korean.
 

Renegen

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I've only ever played RotTK 6, 10, and 11. For a good nice experience with PSX - style graphics, go with 6. It has all of the basics, good game. 10 is the best, you can start as a lowly general and rise through the ranks to become the emperor, while 11 has real time combat and focuses much more heavily on strategy.

I'd say the best is 10, except it has one glaring flaw, bad AI (but they all do really). In that game as mentioned, you can roleplay many more things than just warfare. You can be a wondering scholar, lending your talent to a particular state, or be a general, or turn like the wind as different states rise or fall, or commit to one faction for the rest of the game. I actually ended up playing for Dong Zhuo (the evil dude). What's amazing is the attention to detail, every local general I recruited or met turned out to be from that same area in history too. You start really getting into the lore, I really liked how brilliant my character had been in history. The game also has a lot of nice touches like a hero & item & event database.
 

Majestic47

Learned
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rtk3 is abandonware and is a tough game to beat. But if u abuse charismatic officers you can basically turn a rich kingdom into your personal sugar daddy and raise army from the cash.

It's quite stupid IMO. .

I really, really wanted to play the 10th on PC but can't find fully translated version. I felt sad about it, but what can you do.

11th is all about crazy macromanaging and super officers dominating the battlefield. Once you're created your elite core army with high research invested, it's GG.
 

MicoSelva

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I've played Genghis Khan 1 & 2. Second one is pretty hard unless You use an exploit which allows You to destroy enemy armies with inferior forces, then it becomes pointless.
 

Tigranes

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Renegen said:
I've only ever played RotTK 6, 10, and 11. For a good nice experience with PSX - style graphics, go with 6. It has all of the basics, good game. 10 is the best, you can start as a lowly general and rise through the ranks to become the emperor, while 11 has real time combat and focuses much more heavily on strategy.

I'd say the best is 10, except it has one glaring flaw, bad AI (but they all do really). In that game as mentioned, you can roleplay many more things than just warfare. You can be a wondering scholar, lending your talent to a particular state, or be a general, or turn like the wind as different states rise or fall, or commit to one faction for the rest of the game. I actually ended up playing for Dong Zhuo (the evil dude). What's amazing is the attention to detail, every local general I recruited or met turned out to be from that same area in history too. You start really getting into the lore, I really liked how brilliant my character had been in history. The game also has a lot of nice touches like a hero & item & event database.

The lore is excellently done in every ROTK game and that's really its greatest strength - I read the books over and over when I was a kid and pretty much, within the confines of the medium and genre, you could not have a more accurate translation of the books and the setting. It's amazing how they kept track of thousands of generals and persons, their loyalties, abilities and where they were at a given year. The AI is indeed silly and you get silly exploits in every iteration, but what is incredibly balanced is that if you recruit certain generals and use them in a certain way, you get the results that you really can read about in the books.

It helps that in that era, "super-generals" were really possible. Probably not to the extent that the books tell - e.g. Zhao Yun killing 7(?) generals in single combat and riding through thousands of foot soldiers with a baby in hand - but the super-heavily-armoured rider versus what was basically a loose collection of conscripts with improvised equipment means that it makes sense for generals to turn the tide of battles in the game. In, say, ROTK3 or 4, if you do it right, you could conceivably defend a key chokepoint in the map (terrain plays a huge role in 3/4) outnumbered 5:1 or more because your general is badass and you've invested proper equipment for troops under him.
 

mondblut

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KOEI is a sole justification we still tolerate the existence of Gookaland.

The late dos/early windows titles before they went all consoletard are all superb, Genghis Khan 2, Pacific Theatre of Operations 2, RTK4, shouldn't even mention Celtic Tales which is the best gaem evar.

RTK11 was a disappointment, the MTG-wannabe "dispute" minigame, action "duels", flashy animufag graphical FX, no separation of domestic and combat modes, meh. Decline. At least the battles were still turn-based, contrary to what an earlier poster said.
 

Ruprekt

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Well, I'm starting with X. Barely understand what I'm doing (understatement) but one thing I can say is I'd love to see the personal interaction aspect of this game in something like Crusader Kings.

re: books... What would be good to bring myself up to speed on the history/lore?
 

Tripicus

Augur
Joined
Oct 22, 2011
Messages
161
The website http://threekingdoms.com contains the full translation. There was also a (at least one) series produced in China of the RT3K. One is translated and was on Youtube when I watched it, so you could likely find it there.

As for the early RT3K games, the computer was never very aggressive. Quite often, if you fortify your numbers, the computer would focus on neighbours often beating each other into incredibly weakened states.

I only played the first 5 and part 9. The 9th one had a real time system, but was slow enough that timing wasn't an issue, and everything was contained on one map. However, there is little emphasis on unit placement aside from ensuring siege reached cities first.

Bandit Kings of Ancient China is interesting because the computer has control of the powerful central state, and the better cities are located in their provinces and by their provinces. If you come out of exile by their territory you get threatened with war if you don't pay taxes. In addition if you don't unify China by a certain year the 'barbarians' come from the North causing you to lose. So if you play a slow cautious game you will run out of time.
 

Heresiarch

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What? You guys actually play games made by jap with a Chinese setting? I thought Koei produced only the Musou series?




Srsly, I want them to make a Daikoukai Jidai 5 but all they have got out since 4 is a shitty MMORPG. At least they haven't declined THAT much by making a Daikoukai Musou game...
 
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The late dos/early windows titles before they went all consoletard are all superb, Genghis Khan 2, Pacific Theatre of Operations 2, RTK4, shouldn't even mention Celtic Tales which is the best gaem evar.

This. And I also enjoyed the older titles like L'Empereur, Nobunagas Ambition, Bandit Kings and so on. Haven't played any of the newer stuff.
 
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
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Heresiarch said:
What? You guys actually play games made by jap with a Chinese setting? I thought Koei produced only the Musou series?




Srsly, I want them to make a Daikoukai Jidai 5 but all they have got out since 4 is a shitty MMORPG. At least they haven't declined THAT much by making a Daikoukai Musou game...

Pretty sure we have a better shot at getting Wizardry IX than we do Daikoukai Jidai V.
 

Tripicus

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Oct 22, 2011
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I never knew such a game existed. How is the difficulty and how does it compare to other similar games such as Fire Emblem, etc?
 

oscar

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I haven't personally played Fire Emblem, but apparently it's quite similar. Probably easier due to the fact that there's (with a few exceptions) no permadeath.

It's got a impressively branching storyline based upon your actions in-mission and even a morality meter (whether Cao Cao is fulfilling his canon role as a sort of amoral semi-villain or becoming a benevolent ruler-type) that completely switches around the game.

It was actually Wyrmlord who got me onto it, and yeah it's pretty cool. Though not as difficult as he said it was (so far).
 

Heresiarch

Prophet
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Mar 8, 2008
Messages
1,451
If you want EXTREME difficulty, definetly try Legend of Heroes (literary translated anyway, it should be called Legend of Liu Bei), the first of the series. All the later of the series let you keep your newly earned experience if you retry a mission. Which means you can say let a level 99 Guan Yu go killing spree in the first level by repeating it. In Legend of Heroes/Liu Bei there is no such mechanism and the combat is absolutely brutal, with no in-mission savegame to boot.

I remember the mission in which you must escort the refugees to reach a port and it was a two part mission too, with no save game allowed. I needed to hold the chokepoints to prevent the Wei armies massacre them but the Wei outnumbered us like 2:1, with LOTS of them were named generals and were cavalries. It was a nightmare.
 

saenz

Scholar
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Oct 31, 2009
Messages
166
mondblut said:
KOEI is a sole justification we still tolerate the existence of Gookaland.

The late dos/early windows titles before they went all consoletard are all superb, Genghis Khan 2, Pacific Theatre of Operations 2, RTK4, shouldn't even mention Celtic Tales which is the best gaem evar.

"Celtic Tales" was easily their best game, and they have fallen far since their golden days on DOS. HOWEVER, they had some decent SNES titles before they sold out making Playstation crap.

The "Uncharted Waters" series is probably one of the best pirate strategy/RPG hybrids ever made:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncharted_Waters

The "Aerobiz" series was an airlines strategy/sim. Fairly light, but holy shit, non-violent strategy/sim on the SNES:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerobiz_Supersonic

"Liberty or Death" was the RTK engine ported over to fit the American Revolution. However, the almost HOI-like events and C-and-C system really made this game something special.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_or ... eo_game%29
 

PorkaMorka

Arcane
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
5,090
I've hear that a disappointing AI is a common problem with KOEI strategy games, especially in Romance of the Three Kingdoms 11.

Is it bad enough that it's not worth bothering with the game, because the AI problems will ruin the game even before you get good?

Or is it just bad in the way that most strategy games are bad; unable to provide a challenge once you get good?
 

Delbaeth

Learned
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Nov 21, 2013
Messages
320
Sorry for the necro.

It's been years that I was interested in Matrix War Plan Orange and War in the Pacific. But I don't plan to play them very soon (although I will, someday), because I don't think I could manage these games (IIRC War Plan Orange is easier to get in).
So I wanted a simpler strategy game about Pacific warfare during WWII.

That's why I wanted to know if the Pacific Theatre of Operations series is a good entry.
 
Last edited:

Baptismbyfire

Liturgist
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Sep 9, 2012
Messages
182
Sorry for the necro.

It's been years that I was interested in Matrix War Plan Orange and War in the Pacific. But I don't plan to play them very soon (although I will, someday), because I don't think I could manage these games (IIRC War Plan Orange is easier to get in).
So I wanted a simpler strategy game about Pacific warfare during WWII.

That's why I wanted to know if the Pacific Theatre of Operations series is a good entry.

Yah, loved the PTO. That's how I learned my Asian geography when I was a wee boy.
 

mondblut

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Yeah, PTO(2) was damn fine. It did that whole "design your own uberships" back when it was still a novelty. The results were ridiculously overpowered, but that's the entire fun of it, eh?
 

Delbaeth

Learned
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Nov 21, 2013
Messages
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Sorry again for the late answer.
Thanks, I will seriously look at PTO 2 at first. (the other weren't translated, right?)
 

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