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Game News Larian is making Baldur's Gate 3

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
D:OS (in Cyseal, mostly) had really fun and creative encounter design. If Larian can recreate that, I'll be thrilled. The second game was pretty abysmal in that department, however, though that was due in part to the fact that every enemy had an unholy mish-mash of skills which made it impossible to predict what they would do and where they'd be able to move. That won't be the case in a D&D game.
 

hexer

Guest
We need another RPG Renaissance! Please gods of RPG make it happen!

Larian's writing, quest and combat design skills might be a good fit for Baldur's Gate in those respective aspects but I wouldn't trust them with the art direction or world building yet.

Inb4 cartoony style Baldur's Gate 3 reveal

:negative:
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
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Oct 3, 2015
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What exactly is so exciting in Baldur's Gate?
The Forgotten realms setting at least is.
:nocountryforshitposters:

TSR created the Forgotten Realms campaign setting as a blander, more generic replacement for the Greyhawk campaign setting that had been based on Gary Gygax's personal campaign and was therefore no longer considered suitable as the default AD&D setting after the change in ownership in 1985 and Gygax's ouster from the company he had founded.
 
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
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I strongly prefer turn based combat to RTwP. However I hate when the identity of games I love changes and becomes diluted. I am not a hypocrite, I am against selling out franchise identity even in rare cases when it is in my benefit.
 

Spectacle

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Turn based would obviously be incline. Particularly BG2, being known for its encounters and Larian well not being so, I'm not sure they can pull that off.
DOS 1 & 2 games on hardest difficulty had encounters comparable to BG 1 & 2 with SCS on the hardest difficulty.
I'd say both games even went a few steps further with encounters that were almost impossible without cheese (such as setting up traps with barrels prior to the encounter, blocking paths with paintings, etc.).
Nothing wrong with a bit of cheese though, no one has as many friends as the man with many cheeses!
 

Rinslin Merwind

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If it will be TB - incline
If it will be RTwP - decline

Also, whats wrong with people who spewing bullshit about OwlCat being better developer for BG 3 than Larian? OwlCat wasn't even able to implement properly majority of classes from Pathfinder (yes, I wasted some time on research in Pathfinder ruleset) And they fucking sold one class as DLC, apparently people want future for CRPG where only one class comes with game and others are dlc.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,394
If it will be TB - incline
If it will be RTwP - decline

Also, whats wrong with people who spewing bullshit about OwlCat being better developer for BG 3 than Larian? OwlCat wasn't even able to implement properly majority of classes from Pathfinder (yes, I wasted some time on research in Pathfinder ruleset) And they fucking sold one class as DLC, apparently people want future for CRPG where only one class comes with game and others are dlc.
First, if you are going to judge Owlcat by how complete their implementation the pnp is, then all RPGs based on rule sets are condemned, a complete implementation of an PnP system on a cRPG is impossible, what actually matters is if the developer implemented the rules enough to guarantee fun gameplay and Owlcat did just that with Pathfinder.
About the DLC, sure, that is shit but while there is a decent rooster of classes on the base game and they don't go full Paradox, I'm fine with it.

Larian as the choice of WOTC makes me worried because, Larian always made simplistic lite RPG mechanics for their games, the systems on DOS 1 are pretty barebones and in some cases like the loot system, completely atrocious. The thing that saved DOS 1 was the encounter design and the fact the game was TB, what made the game fun despite its limitations. DOS 2 is another beast because the changes Larian did on combat pretty much crippled the game.

I confess I'm not following everything Swen says and maybe he changed his opinion, but from what I saw based on his reactions of criticism after DOS 2 launch, his whole argument was, "we sold 2 million copies so whatever you say is invalid", Swen repeatedly after criticism of the loot system since even DOS 1, insists on the retarded loot system and his whole argument is that Diablo's Diarrhea of useless items sells more copies and unfortunately he might not even be wrong. After the success of DOS 2, it is to be very,very naive to think Swen will stick to a niche market with Baldurs Gate 3 and the danger is the thinking "Hey, we got all those mechanics on DOS 2 and the game sold 2 million of copies, how about we use them on BG 3, making an hybrid of 5e and DOS 2?"
 

Rinslin Merwind

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First, if you are going to judge Owlcat by how complete their implementation the pnp is, then all RPGs based on rule sets are condemned, a complete implementation of an PnP system on a cRPG is impossible, what actually matters is if the developer implemented the rules enough to guarantee fun gameplay and Owlcat did just that with Pathfinder.
About the DLC, sure, that is shit but while there is a decent rooster of classes on the base game and they don't go full Paradox, I'm fine with it.

Larian as the choice of WOTC makes me worried because, Larian always made simplistic lite RPG mechanics for their games, the systems on DOS 1 are pretty barebones and in some cases like the loot system, completely atrocious. The thing that saved DOS 1 was the encounter design and the fact the game was TB, what made the game fun despite its limitations. DOS 2 is another beast because the changes Larian did on combat pretty much crippled the game.

I confess I'm not following everything Swen says and maybe he changed his opinion, but from what I saw based on his reactions of criticism after DOS 2 launch, his whole argument was, "we sold 2 million copies so whatever you say is invalid", Swen repeatedly after criticism of the loot system since even DOS 1, insists on the retarded loot system and his whole argument is that Diablo's Diarrhea of useless items sells more copies and unfortunately he might not even be wrong. After the success of DOS 2, it is to be very,very naive to think Swen will stick to a niche market with Baldurs Gate 3 and the danger is the thinking "Hey, we got all those mechanics on DOS 2 and the game sold 2 million of copies, how about we use them on BG 3, making an hybrid of 5e and DOS 2?"

You know, the funny thing is that I agree that complete implementation of PnP is impossible and, also,with criticism about loot and armor system, rpg system from Larians. Hell I think I have uneasy feeling about BG 3 too, although it's about different things. It's just people talking about OwlCat like they flawless and cannot fuck it up, meanwhile they did only one game and that had their flaws. Besides, Pathfinder setting shouldn't be abandoned after one game, so I think it would be better for everyone if OwlCat will work on new game in Pathfinder setting, than making ANOTHER BG.

Speaking about Paradox, they will sell clan as DLC in new Bloodlines game, so I think we are have chance to be in real danger of class DLC in the future.
 

mindfields

Learned
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May 26, 2017
Messages
156
I wouldn't mind it being RTWP, but if it isn't a full (or at least mostly full) implementation of D&D rules I will fucking riot.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
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Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,394
I confess I'm not following everything Swen says and maybe he changed his opinion, but from what I saw based on his reactions of criticism after DOS 2 launch, his whole argument was, "we sold 2 million copies so whatever you say is invalid"

I assume you're aware that he has folded on the armor system and at least for Divinity: Fallen Heroes, on the turn order.
I wasn't aware of this talk and listening to it, near the end there is a guy asking about balance and Swen pretty much is the anti-Sawyer in relation to that and that is good news. Still skeptic, need to know about the loot system (assuming Larian won't be stubborn again with a shit system like the armor one), we are talking about a series where people still remember the names of the unique weapons on it and Larian style of Diablo shit loot is a big threat to that. I could even tolerate their shit loot and Swen can get away with his loot shower if at least the uniques don't get fucking outclassed 30 mins later because of insane damage/hp scaling.

The whole difficulty spike Larian did on that patch was ridiculous, now I know why I felt I was playing a Final Fantasy game all of sudden and the insane stat bloat of the enemies, yeah, Swen, I was on the group of players that took the difficulty walls on the face and I was the guinea pig for the other players that were taking their time... nice, now makes sense. Never play a game before the definitive edition comes out.
 
Joined
Jan 26, 2007
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522
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Germoney
Kingmaker is fine. However, none of the nu-RtWP devs quite understood what a) mainly influenced Oldschool Bioware back in the day (their Warcraft 2 sessions in the Offices) and b) what they did to translate the then AD&D rules to the Computer, which is simplifying them. Not that Bioware fully succeeded. But whilst I enjoy good chunks of the combat in more recent RtWP games; at the more complex battles it's at times the worst of both Worlds much moreso than in any IE game. Anybody looking at the Combat log alone who doesn't see the conflict at Play here between the supposedly more "natural" flow of real time and some of the more abstract tabletop combat resultions doesn't understand the minds at Bioware back then either. The thing explodes in particular at more higher Levels of Combat, with each char and enemy resolving multiple attack rolls per round, triggering attacks of opportunity conditions, engaging in concentration checks, etc. simultaneously.

tldr; Bioware back then tried to adapt the abstract mechanics of a tabletop into a real-time environment and also tried to cut some serious corners. Meanwhile, Obsidian, Owlcat et all cram their Systems into a format that they perceive was Baldur's Gate.

BG3 may settle the RtWP conundrum once and for all though. If Larian go with TB and the game sells like hotcakes (hey, it's BG+D&D+Larian of GOTY Original Sin fame rolled into one smash hit formula burrito!), market research will conclude that TB rules the day. And things become a self-fullfilling Prophecy from then on, similar to how they did for TB Prior until X-Com, Larian et all came around. Maybe they'll "fix" nu-RtWP though, who knows.
 
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Strange Fellow

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Larian as the choice of WOTC makes me worried because, Larian always made simplistic lite RPG mechanics for their games, the systems on DOS 1 are pretty barebones
..which makes them a good candidate to develop a game using an established ruleset, no?
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Oh, I hope everybody is prepared for this to be a multiplatform, not PC-exclusive game. It should go without saying but there's always somebody who is surprised.
 

Ol'man

Educated
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
71
It's going to use 5e combat system and if anyone thinks otherwise they haven't been paying attention to wotc for the last 7 years.

Best thing would be if Larian puts a DM tool like DOS:2 in but expanded, so even if they drop the ball with BG3, players can put together modules and/or rulesets.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,158
Oh, I hope everybody is prepared for this to be a multiplatform, not PC-exclusive game. It should go without saying but there's always somebody who is surprised.
Of course it will release on everything possible , old school rpg like the ultimas used too. But first and foremost , it will be a pc game as it core. Cause sven is a good guy with a soul.
Dont report me for optimistic button harvesting...
 

aris

Arcane
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
11,613
If it will be TB - incline
If it will be RTwP - decline
Do kids these days even know what kind of games BG and BG2 were?
:hmmm:

Jesus fucking christ. Games do not automagically become better or worse based on if it has TB-combat or not.
 

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