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Anime Legacy of Kain retrospect (obsessive fanboy tl;dr inside)

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Master Planetar, Nov 28, 2019.

  1. Duraframe300 Arcane

    Duraframe300
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    Funnily enough when the majority of Legacy of Kain is written by a women said soyboys don't really like.
     
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  2. Terra Learned

    Terra
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    Still need to get around to finishing defiance personally. I always wished we'd gotten another entry in the same vein as Blood Omen.

    I remember how obvious it was that loads of stuff got cut from SR1; I remember gliding over to the semi-hidden human stronghold and there was pretty much nothing to do there as I recall. I recall there were meant to be various reaver upgrades and I think only the fire-reaver ended up making it into the final product. All the encounters with Kain were epic though, Templeman's voice fit the character perfectly.
     
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  3. J1M Arcane

    J1M
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    If this series was an MMO they'd continue it by just opening up some new continents. You could do a story about Kain subjugating a new land where a non-vampire fantasy race holds dominion. Werewolves might be a little too similar to other intellectual properties, but you get the idea.
     
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  4. catfood AGAIN

    catfood
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    I didn't know you played video games.
     
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  5. Humanity has risen! Arcane Patron Repressed Homosexual

    Humanity has risen!
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    Convoluted, boring and pretentious. I couldn't bear more than 30 minutes of each game.
     
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  6. Rahdulan Arcane Patron

    Rahdulan
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    Didn't this basically become Shadow of Mordor? I think the problem is this difference in writing quality and style. Comparing it to existing games is like night and day, and those things are pretty important no matter how you look at it. Verbose soliloquies are a standout feature of Legacy of Kain as a franchise.
     
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  7. Beastro Arcane

    Beastro
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    I don't like how they handled the Hylden, but I appreciate they went with creating a new race rather than retrofiting in an old one kinda the way they did with the vampires.
     
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  8. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
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    Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    No one's falling for your ruse this time Moebius.
     
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  9. J_C One Bit Studio Patron Developer

    J_C
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    Unfortunately I never managed to finish any of the games in the series, but I can wholeheartedly agree that the story, music, voiceacting, atmosphere, artstyle and world building is top tier in these games. I would love a new one, with some modern touch.
     
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  10. Master Planetar Hi, my name is Liberal Patron Dumbfuck

    Master Planetar
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy
    Get a PS2 and finish them all, starting with Blood Omen. That's my plan, anyway.

    The "ancient vampires" thing is very confusing to the uninitiated. I remember trying to explain to someone who never played the series past Soul Reaver how in this universe, "Vampire" originally was the name of a blue-skinned winged race that had no relation to being bloodsucking undead, and ironically enough, actually worshiped the cycle of reincarnation and the "Elder God" who claimed to be its keeper.

    They were later turned into bloodsucking undead against their will by their enemies, and the name "vampire" ended up changing its meaning in human culture, when they forgot the blue-skinned race entirely.

    Also, there's the weird and unexplained aspect (potential plothole) of the Ancient Vampires turning humans into vampires... by passing on the curse of undeath? Which was never a part of their original race, and is in fact anathema to them?

    The way I could resolve this apparent contradiction is by assuming that the Ancient Vampires had always possessed the ability to "adopt" humans into their species (not that this makes a whole lot of sense)... but after they became undead, this also entailed passing on the curse of undeath as a side-effect. Still doesn't explain why none of the "adopted" vampires ever developed wings or blue skin (Vorador ended up turning into a green goblin - another odd creative choice by Silicon Knights, Kain turned into a gold-skinned ubermensch, and Raziel actually developed wings... but leathery bat-wings that looked like those of the Hylden, rather than the dark-feathered wings of Janos Audrin).

    More examples of seams across the games, produced by the fact that the Ancient Vampires vs Hylden backstory wasn't invented until Soul Reaver 2. Still, they managed to work around their limitations by embracing Raziel's incidental resemblance to the Hylden by making it a plot-point in Defiance, and even including one image of a blue-skinned winged version of Kain on one of the ancient murals in the final boss battle room of Defiance (perhaps, Kain's ultimate evolution, now that he is purified of his corruption?)
     
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  11. BING XI LAO Magister

    BING XI LAO
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    I think Blood Omen / Soul Reaver rivals Planescape and Kotor2 for the quality of its plot and its vibe - though it's less expansive than them because it's not a true rpg of course.
    I wonder if the WC3 campaign was partially inspired by Blood Omen? There is a certain commonality between Kain and Arthas; they fall, they are arrogant bully-boys, their tone is flat and cynical, and in their undead state they are partially controlled by a great sorcerer. That's one of my favourite details of Blood Omen - the way Kain is arguably controlled to a great extent by Mortanius, and yet that is is never explicitly stated. It is so tasteful when something like that isn't explicitly stated because to do so would be unnecessary. It is quite heavily implied, by Kain swiftly following all of Mortanius's suggestions (which he hears in his head across great distances) without questioning them. Not to mention being raised by Mortanius in the first place. Playing as a vampire partially controlled by a necromancer who is himself partially controlled by a demon - the edge is so thick it has layers.

    "Call your dogs! They can feast on your corpses!" - Vorador is such a chad in the first game. Can't believe they turned him into a fucking Yoda impersonator in later games.

    Hilariously, the writer for the first game, Denis Dyack, is now spending his time on some vampire-themed MMO arena combat game. How can people decline so much lol? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zDxLYa1eUc

    Come to think of it, for the good ending, you have to kill yourself. Interesting commonality with Planescape.
     
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  12. Darkforge Scholar

    Darkforge
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    Blood Omen had the best story and script of any video game as far as I am concerned. It just dripped atmosphere, and the voice actor of Kain is the best ever.
     
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  13. Tarantulos-Eduardo-Sanchez Arcane

    Tarantulos-Eduardo-Sanchez
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    It also had a really badass soundtrack.


     
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  14. Beastro Arcane

    Beastro
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    There's mention of it done in SR2 about being their only effective was of procreating and passing on their culture as their numbers dwindled.

    It's all retroactive to fit in the vampires in, which couldn't be helped, and I appreciate the Hylden weren't something like Orcs purposed for the setting.
     
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  15. Deflowerer Arcane

    Deflowerer
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    If I'm not mistaken, then actually even with the original planned ending for SR, there would've still been sequels. I think the idea was that Raziel does indeed exterminate all vampires in Nosgoth with the Silenced Cathedral thingie but then finds out that he has been tricked by the Elder God and goes back in time or shit like that.

    Also:

     
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  16. Bigg Boss Prophet

    Bigg Boss
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    I did not know Blood Omen 2 started as Chakan 2. Wow. They really should have brought Chakan back. It would have made that game so much better. I loved it at the time but even then I knew the writing was shit. I just liked roleplaying a vampire sneaking up and necking people. My favorite part of Soul Reaver is all the Gnostic influence. They really touched on a lot of interesting concepts that were not covered up to that point.
     
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  17. Master Planetar Hi, my name is Liberal Patron Dumbfuck

    Master Planetar
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    Blood Omen 2 was a repurposed Chakan 2, and Soul Reaver 1 was a repurposed Shifter (original IP with no connection to Legacy of Kain). Even after becoming Soul Reaver, the game was supposed to be a complete story that left no room for (direct) sequels...
    Show Spoiler
    but then Crystal Dynamics ran out of dem dolla bills and released about 2/3 of the content they had planned, with a random cliffhanger ending.


    In the whole series, only Defiance was a planned sequel to the previous game... and Dark Prophecy, the cancelled sixth game. [​IMG]
     
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  18. Bigg Boss Prophet

    Bigg Boss
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    It's insane that they diluted Blood Omen by jamming 2 into the timeline instead of just making another good IP by exposing how awesome the Chakan series could have been. They should have kept with the first Blood Omen style (like they were going to I believe) with the first sequel and then did the Soul Reaver spinoff like they did.

    Show Spoiler

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Now some moron will probably remake it.
     
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  19. Tarantulos-Eduardo-Sanchez Arcane

    Tarantulos-Eduardo-Sanchez
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    I would like another game that had the same atmosphere/mood of BO1's world. It had that notably gritty, dark gothic style to it which just stood out at the time. It was like playing Zelda for adults. Just thought the original medieval world of Nosgoth should have had another game whether it be spin-off or not, maybe you play as Malek before he is defeated by Vorador and is serving as the Circle's guardian who ruthlessly hunts down vampires.

    Still think BO1 has a fantastic opening in any game ever. Kain's deathknell when the iron sword is plunged through his chest is still memorable over 20 years later.
     
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  20. Master Planetar Hi, my name is Liberal Patron Dumbfuck

    Master Planetar
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    Where the fuck did you get that idea?
     
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  21. Life Coach beer can Patron

    Life Coach
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    ur mum
     
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  22. Bigg Boss Prophet

    Bigg Boss
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    Notice the name of the song.
     
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  23. BING XI LAO Magister

    BING XI LAO
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  24. Master Planetar Hi, my name is Liberal Patron Dumbfuck

    Master Planetar
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    Soul Reaver 2 reveals that the reason Malek was too late to save the circle is because he was held up by Moebius, who was using him to intimidate Raziel into taking the Blood Reaver in his hand.

    Oh, and the reason Vorador decided to attack the circle at that particular time, is because his master, Janos Audrin, was just killed by... Raziel the Sarafan knight... who followed the footsteps of Raziel the Soul Reaver.

    As far as retroactively-added backstories go, it's almost seamless. It only adds to the story, and gives more drama and motivation behind what was originally a fairly simplistic tale of a powerful vampire attacking helpless wizards for shits and giggles.
     
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  25. BING XI LAO Magister

    BING XI LAO
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    I liked the original idea that Malek was vain and complacent and got caught out because of that. However, the later version is pretty good too. As Guardians, Moebius and Malek are nominally equal, but we see Malek obeying Moebius' commands. I like to imagine that Mortanius' punishment of Malek served a dual purpose of bringing the Guardian of the Pillar of Conflict more under his power and out of Moebius's orbit.
     
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