Legend of Grimrock

[made]

You playing on Hard, right?

Yes. Only damage numbers scale though, so if you're not getting hit you're not getting hit. I can understand playing on normal if you cba with circle strafing. The attack buttons and casting UI are a bit fiddly; BC was much easier on the wrists.

3rd level was more fun with its fast spiders and some not-so-obvious puzzles. Difficulty seems to slowly ramp up. Taking my time to explore and find as much as possible on my first run as I'm not likely to replay it.

 

[Angelo85]

Jasede please tell me if I'm on the right track for the slimes

Spoilers for the slimes, minor spoiler for floor 4:

Spoiler

I found this piece of a map on floor 4:

Since the icon in the corner resembles a slime I guess this is a map to find them? I searched the map of floor 4 for a place that resembles the part drawn on the little map but couldn't find it for the life of me. But from what you said I reckon that the entrance/access point is actually located on floor 3 and not on floor 4?

/e: found it :D the map indeed showed me the place. But the area itself was a "secret" which I missed the first time around hence I wasn't able to see it on the map because it was not cartographed yet.

btw I just went through floor 4 and now I'm getting my ass handed to me in the final combat encounter. Any hints for a poor noob?

Spoiler

I assume this is the endfight of this floor at least. I placed the four scrolls into the pillars and am getting swarmed by those little green thingies. I retreated into a single tile wide floor, gave each of my front row fighters 2 health potions each and spam the ice shard spell down the corridor for maximum damage. Still these little pests wear me down during the fight and kill my party one by one.
I got first row fighter - fighter second row rogue - mage. When the top right fighter takes too much damage (he has low evasion and maximum possible armor) I turn my party so that top left fighter and rogue are exposed (the rogue has massive evasion boni) so I try to spread the damage out a bit.
Still this fight is very hard for me - did you guys just made a run for the stairs and cleaned up the little buggers later or did you actually manage to finish them off the first time you encountered them?

/e2: alright, beat that final combat encounter as well now, actually managed to pull it off with only one party member dying.

 

[made]

the time it takes you to move the mouse and right-click for basic strikes and cast spells (with the potential to screw up your runes) is where much of the difficulty and tactics come in.

Well, moving the mouse should not be the game's central challenge. Ofc in a RT game good reflexes will give an advantage, that's not avoidable, but there are ways to make combat more tactical and put more focus on stats over reflexes even in a RT crawler.

Again I point to Black Crypt, which had 4 centralized, easy to access attack buttons and a similarly comfortable spell book that was limited to 5 memorized spells per char. Mouse movement was minimal. You could cast all spells in a matter of seconds, but that would render your mages useless for the next fight and you had to consider whether to fill your spell book with damage spells or utility (unfortunately, BC made resting too safe most of the time and food was a non-issue). It also pulled a number of (sometimes cheap) tricks like freezing you in place and spawning mobs on your head forcing you to stand and fight instead of running circles.

 

[Cypreana]

This is a great game, atmosphere is good. Lots of puzzles. And I'm only at level 3 and already getting lost.
I do want a better way to cast spells though, are at least if you need to recast the same spell. And maybe a list with found spells. (although could be on purpose that this wasnt included.)

But in short, im having a great time.

 

[sser]

Awesome game. Just got down to Level 4.

IMO, the combat is fine. Mages requires some pre-planning which is nice deviation from the comical uber-wizards of recent titles. You should always have a spell ready to go which, IMO, reflects the classic ponderous nature of the mage. Spell-casting while being chased is as palm-sweating and crazy as it should be, as one could imagine a frail mage frantically trying to get his shit together while hordes of horribles descend on the party. I think a four-mage run through the game would be highly entertaining once the gameplay is better understood. The real-time combat itself hits and misses, but overall I enjoy it. The claustrophobic nature of the dungeons really amps the pace up when multiple enemies are running at you; ironically, it is at times way more intense than the typical modern-FPS with all its bells and exploding whistles. Totally love the puzzles. They are clever without being too ridiculous and it feels great to solve them. That is good game design. And there are secrets everywhere that makes for great level-exploration and you always get well-rewarded for your efforts. I found the sound and graphics to flow well with the gameplay, a consistency many modern games inexplicably lack. The chink of the legionnaire armor or the skittering legs of the spiders sets me on edge; as does their running up into your face. This game and Dark Souls have been great surprises this past year; total high marks, 110/10, A+++, Double-Double-Offer, etc.



My party ...

Frontline: Human (Fighter) , Human (Rogue)
Backline: Minotaur (Rogue) , Insectoid (Mage)

I always like to try something a little non-vanilla when playing games so that's my line-up. The fighter is putting on all the shiny armor, naturally. Basic tank. Human rogue is an assassin/evasion artist. Not sure how it's gonna shake out in terms of damage, but so far she pretty much never gets hit in physical combat. Minotaur rogue was just an idea I had when I saw that throwing skills leveled and built off of strength. It worked splendidly -- a mix of creativity and effectiveness; that brute brings some serious pain to the field. The insectoid is an earth-mage. I'm still not sure if I should learn multiple trees with the mage, so that's all I'm doing so far. One particular earth-spell made the spider-hordes a little easier to take down. Playing the game on Hard -- it's not too brutal, really. Normal has to be a cakewalk if this is as bad as it gets.


Some random stats, I guess:

 

[Elwro]

This game really takes me back to the golden memories of DM and EoB... opened the first iron door (weird Brotherhood of Stell-like symbol) and felt like a boss even if all it took was simple searching for switches. The spell buttons are a bit small in 1440x900, but it's bearable. Shame I have to work so much these days...

 

[Jaedar]

Since we're all posting stats:

Those fucking spiders man, killed me several times. Also, I ran away from the slimes like a coward, but at least I managed to steal a treasure from them.

 

[Wulfstand]

Can anyone help me out? Near the ending of level 2, there's a trapped door, with a huge statue face near it, and a riddle that says 'Only a patient man can defeat daemon's gaze'. What am I supposed to do? I tried placing a rock and then sleeping a bit, nothing.

Edit: nevermind, I found out. The game's really awesome, I've been having a blast playing through it so far, and besides M&M 6,7 and , alongside the last Wizardry game, which I barely played, this is pretty much the only blob-based crpg I've ever played, and I hope other, sort of newer players in this genre, also get into it.

 

[Grunker]

I haven't gotten nearly as far as any of you yet, did you play this for the last 10 hours? :O

Anyway, I'm really liking it so far. Will return once I've gotten further.

One non-spoilery question:

I couldn't really see the benefit of having a rogue... My guess is a fighter is better. So even with the extreme small selection of classes I chose to go with fighter/fighter/mage/mage. Is this a colossal mistake? Unless there is some ridiculous hidden information we don't know about (über-weapon only available to rogues or some shit like that), I just don't see why I should bother with a Rogue.

 

[mindx2]

Who needs Steam!!

Achievements pic

Achievements pic

Achievements pic

Achievements pic

Achievements pic

Should we rename this thread the "Codex Achievements" thread?!! :p

As to the game itself: it's really addicting. I'm having a blast with it but am only on lvl 2 as I'm stopping at every wall to examine it :D.

 

[Grunker]

Can anyone help me out? Near the ending of level 2, there's a trapped door, with a huge statue face near it, and a riddle that says 'Only a patient man can defeat daemon's gaze'. What am I supposed to do? I tried placing a rock and then sleeping a bit, nothing.

Edit: nevermind, I found out. The game's really awesome, I've been having a blast playing through it so far, and besides M&M 6,7 and , alongside the last Wizardry game, which I barely played, this is pretty much the only blob-based crpg I've ever played, and I hope other, sort of newer players in this genre, also get into it.

Wow, you should play some other great blobbers then. Lands of Lore, M&M8 (yes, I know, I like 6, 7, 8 more than World of Xeen, shoot me) and finishing Wizardry comes to mind.

 

[made]

So even with the extreme small selection of classes I chose to go with fighter/fighter/mage/mage. Is this a colossal mistake? Unless there is some ridiculous hidden information we don't know about (über-weapon only available to rogues or some shit like that), I just don't see why I should bother with a Rogue.

With class selection already small as it is, why would you limit it even further?
Personally, I wouldn't want to manage 2 casters; one is already hassle enough. Let us know how it works out for you tho.

 

[Crooked Bee]

I'm playing an all-mage insectoid party on Hard. Have only beaten the first floor at the moment, but so far so good. Took me lots of reloads to find out some initial rune combinations, but that was the only irritating part. Controlling them isn't that hard once you memorize the combos.

Will only be able to play more extensively next week, though. Fucking work.

 

[Grunker]

made: Why I would limit myself further? Because the Rogue seems like a bad choice. It is situational and has no real advantages to make up for it. Much rather have a fighter specialized in Dex and Evasion (Lizardman). However, as I said, I might have misjudged rogues. Let me know if I have. I will in turn let you know how my playthrough goes with two fighters and two mages. Basically I have Typical Tank/Strength fighter (Minotaur), Dex-based fighter (Lizardman), Air-mage (Human) and Fire-mage (Insectoid).

 

[Angelo85]

I couldn't really see the benefit of having a rogue... My guess is a fighter is better. So even with the extreme small selection of classes I chose to go with fighter/fighter/mage/mage. Is this a colossal mistake? Unless there is some ridiculous hidden information we don't know about (über-weapon only available to rogues or some shit like that), I just don't see why I should bother with a Rogue.

I think if you have one fighter in the second row, his abilities are somewhat limited due to lack of skills/limited selection or spear weapons.
If you want someone with throwing or missile weapons in the back row a rogue is the better choice because of the rogue skills. For example the missile "skill tree":

Enables a rogue to shoot his bow/crossbow much faster eventually.

/e: just saw that you roll with 2 fighters / 2 mages. I guess there's no real downside to that. I got 1st row Fighter - Fighter, 2nd row Rogue - Mage. If the top right fighter takes too much damage I can turn the party while they recharge their attack and split the damage a bit on the rogue who is very good at evasion.

Also I think I wouldn't be able to coordinate the rune usage of 2 mages in a hectic fight, but that's just me being slow

 

[Jaedar]

I think it's plenty hard to manage my one mage against fast moving enemies like spiders or the flying things. Can't imagine playing with 2 or 4 for that matter.

 

[Eyeball]

I also wish it was turn-based. I don't like how frantic and "messy" some battles turn out, having me fumbling to the inventory, trying to quickly use a healing potion on one of my dying party members, only to fail because I wasn't speedy enough. Should be able to hotkey that shit.

That is basically the entire point of combat. It's meant to be fast and frantic. Time is a resource like in any action-style game. That's why being able to hotkey "everyone drink a potion" or "everyone attack" would be stupid - the time it takes you to move the mouse and right-click for basic strikes and cast spells (with the potential to screw up your runes) is where much of the difficulty and tactics come in.

In which case they should have made the interface LESS FUCKING SHIT!

There is no excuse for this bullshit in this day and age. I actually like this game so far for its brutal challenge and lovely presentation, but combat remains fucking horrible for anyone but the worst nostalgiafags due to the shit interface.

Compare and contrast this with KOTC. Also retro as hell and very challenging, but it had a clear and easy to use interface which made it a joy to play. Not so with this. I doubt I will manage to finish it.

 

[DwarvenFood]

I have no problems with the interface, strangly.. Also, what's the complaining about combat, this is the style of the game if you have not asked for it, then it's not for you it's simple. You can't expect to criticize the combat because of it's real time nature, it is what they intended to do from the start and it is done not too bad. Eyeball you played AoD demo yet ? Maybe rage over there, I'm sure you will find a ton to bitch about as well.

 

[Elwro]

I still think the spell icons are bit too small at my resolution, I misclick every once and again...

 

[Regdar]

That is basically the entire point of combat. It's meant to be fast and frantic. Time is a resource like in any action-style game. That's why being able to hotkey "everyone drink a potion" or "everyone attack" would be stupid - the time it takes you to move the mouse and right-click for basic strikes and cast spells (with the potential to screw up your runes) is where much of the difficulty and tactics come in.

[Perception] And that sounds like good game design to you?

 

[Eyeball]

I have no problems with the interface, strangly.. Also, what's the complaining about combat, this is the style of the game if you have not asked for it, then it's not for you it's simple. You can't expect to criticize the combat because of it's real time nature, it is what they intended to do from the start and it is done not too bad. Eyeball you played AoD demo yet ? Maybe rage over there, I'm sure you will find a ton to bitch about as well.

Real time combat is fine. People bitching about this are homos. What is bad is the interface - no keyboard shortcuts, everything requiring way too many clicks, no easy way to drink healing potions and I can't see how more than 1 mage is at all feasible considering the excessive clicking involved.

Fuck nostalgia. This could have been made a million times more functional EASILY. It's clunky for the sake of being clunky, and with a game as beautiful as this, sticking this kind of interface on it is like putting a steam-driven engine in a Ferrari.

 

[Gord]

Obviously it boils down to personal preference whether you consider the real-time approach in LoG good or bad design.
If you expected turn-based you will be disappointed, but in that case you better avoid the game.

Can I expect to find all spells on scrolls, btw?
I haven't found any scroll containing an air-magic spell, yet.
Still, from the basic fire-magic scroll I found earlier it was pretty easy to guess how to do the equivalent air spell.
So, am I supposed to transfer spells to different schools, or will I eventually find them all (given that I'm exploring thoroughly enough).

 

[Snufkin]

It's hard to play any crpg after you played Knights of the chalice. That game was perfect. Legend of grimlock blows btw!

 

[Grunker]

I think if you have one fighter in the second row, his abilities are somewhat limited due to lack of skills/limited selection or spear weapons.
If you want someone with throwing or missile weapons in the back row a rogue is the better choice because of the rogue skills. For example the missile "skill tree":

Enables a rogue to shoot his bow/crossbow much faster eventually.

/e: just saw that you roll with 2 fighters / 2 mages. I guess there's no real downside to that. I got 1st row Fighter - Fighter, 2nd row Rogue - Mage. If the top right fighter takes too much damage I can turn the party while they recharge their attack and split the damage a bit on the rogue who is very good at evasion.

Also I think I wouldn't be able to coordinate the rune usage of 2 mages in a hectic fight, but that's just me being slow

Huh? I have two fighters in front row, two mages in back row

I haven't even used runes yet so who knows? I might regret my choice.

 

[Mortmal]

Its a fine dungeon crawler , puzzles are quite challenging, i got stuck a bit on some of the first one. Problem is lot of save scumming or backtracking when fighting spiders, you get poisoned , you have no healing spells , or at least i have not found them, and not enough reagents for potions.
Big problem is how easy it is to gimp your party, i dont see any reason to pick rogue except as a front line fighter with evasion, you could think its fine in the back row with throwing weapons or bow yes, thats what i did until i realized than dexterity is completely worthless to a rogue in this game, Why ? theres not hit and miss on range, only strengh matter, so all the dex is only usefull for evasion, therefore completely useless in the backrow...
Spells ? seems they give you scrolls only for earth school at the beggining and you have to figure it yourself for the other schools, wich is not intuitive at all compare to dungeon master.
Traits ? pick the minotaur bounty hunter trait, you get at least 5 skulls according the achievment , so thats 5x 2 power attack while the trait aggressive is 4 power attack.