Let's speculate about the future of CRPGs

[Davaris]

And how do you simulate turn-based combat in VR? It seems destined to be flooded with real-time action games.

Simulate a game room, with a game board and counters you can move with a 3D glove. You could play it solo or with internet friends. Something like Card Hunter.

 

[Haba]

There is no future. We grow old, we die and our legacy dies with us.

cRPGs will remain costly and complex to make, with an extremely limited audience that gets smaller by every year. Maybe there is a hipster retro revival at some point, but that'll be just shallow dressing.

Imagine they finally invent means for immortality when you are 80. An eternity without any decent new games.

 

[V_K]

By 80 you probably won't care - with all that demetia and stuff.

 

[SniperHF]

with all that demetia and stuff.

Then you could finally play Fallout / Planescape: Torment fresh again

 

[V_K]

If you still remember what they are, that is.

 

[naossano]

with all that demetia and stuff.

Then you could finally play Fallout / Planescape: Torment fresh again

Then forget about TB and wait forever for things to happen, when it is your turn.

 

[hiver]

VR is rubbish. Augmented reality is the larpers dream come true.

-also, enough with that overblown optimism and cheery happy posts!

 

[mhm32167]

The RPG room tech demo (https://share.oculus.com/app/the-rpg-room ) was pretty cool and using your head to control the camera feels quite natural, but the controls in VR don't currently lend themselves well to complex RPGs. Using a keyboard/mouse in VR feels awkward. We'll see if the steam VR controller solves some of the current input problems. Otherwise good RPGs will probably stay outside the realm of VR.

Yeah, the RPG's in VR will obviously have to be 1st person perspective. And how do you simulate turn-based combat in VR? It seems destined to be flooded with real-time action games.

The tech demo I linked also demonstrates a top-down 3rd person view. Turn-based combat should be doable if the interface is designed for it, but obviously input will need to be solved first. Surprisingly some of the most engaging/fun VR games so far have been from a top-down perspective (e.g. BlazeRush http://store.steampowered.com/app/302710/). But yeah, no actual CRPGs have been shown for VR yet so it remains to be seen whether good CRPGs in VR are viable.

 

[DraQ]

Ok, I am going to buck the trend and actually stay optimistic. Some years ago, in the middle of the decline, I thought that things would become better in the future based on looking at other entertainment media. Whether you look at literature, movies or television, the same general model repeats itself: a mainstream market that produces terrible dumbed down shit and dominates in terms of numbers and profits, and then healthy niche markets, some of which are aimed at more sophisticated tastes. I still don't see any reason why video games will not turn out that same way. The problem was that in early 2000s, everything changed up, huge new target audiences appeared (console gamers, casuals) and all the companies felt compelled to chase after them, often to their own detriment. But now, things have settled down somewhat, and you have your mainstream (the EAs, Ubisofts, Activisions, etc) producing yearly shit for the masses, and that market is very saturated and competitive. On the other hand, the niche markets such hardcore RPGs are underserved. At some point this might lead certain companies (small and medium sized especially) to target it and choose to become a large fish in a small pond rather than a small fish in the sea.

Some other things that will help that trend along (servicing niche markets) are things like Kickstarter, Steam Greenlight/Early Acess, and cheaper, more wide available and more powerful third party tools. The last one is particularly important, in my opinion, as most of the cost of making these games comes from having to do unnecessary work (build your own engine, produce your own art assets, etc). Sure, every once in a while someone will do really nice things with engine, but for most companies its a huge resource sink without providing any tangible benefits. If they could use an out of the box engine with tons of customizable functionality, this would be huge in terms of driving down costs and making RPG development feasible for smaller companies and even individuals. And then you get to even more advanced stuff down the road, like perhaps procedural voice generation for dialogue, procedural art, and so on.

So because of these things, I do think we may have gotten over the worst of the decline, and will see more interesting games in the future, whether from smaller development teams like Obsidian or Warhorse, or even individual developers. But on the other hand, to me the future of cRPGs does not lie in the past either. Games like Divinity: Original Sin, Wasteland 2, PoE, Torment capitalized on people's longing for old school gameplay, but in the future, I expect the RPGs to be more innovative and try to break new ground. I don't want another Fallout 1 or Planescape: Torment or Gothic 2, I want games that are as much a step forward from those as those were from the games before them. And I think we will see cRPGs (and games in general) capitalizing more on the full potential of the medium, going more procedural to present complex simulations where C&C doesn't mean choosing among 3 developer created choices, but twiddling with any of the myriad of aspects of the simulation and having it organically affect the rest of the game. Or developing completely new in-game systems to replace age-old conventions. There are a lot of things developers can do, a lot of innovations they can make as long as passionate people can get their hands on tools cheap enough to allow them to implement their vision.

Spoiler

Yeah, the RPG's in VR will obviously have to be 1st person perspective. And how do you simulate turn-based combat in VR?

Like in Wizardry?

 

[Lady_Error]

Yeah, the RPG's in VR will obviously have to be 1st person perspective. And how do you simulate turn-based combat in VR?

Like in Wizardry?

Yeah, maybe it can be done. Though turn-based combat in VR might be a bit weird: all the enemies freeze and you have pop-up menus to choose your attack mode or spells.

Maybe there are ways to do it without menus, sort of like having a book with magic spell with you. And moving the weapon in different ways signifies different kinds of attack.

 

[DraQ]

Yeah, the RPG's in VR will obviously have to be 1st person perspective. And how do you simulate turn-based combat in VR?

Like in Wizardry?

Yeah, maybe it can be done. Though turn-based combat in VR might be a bit weird: all the enemies freeze and you have pop-up menus to choose your attack mode or spells.

Maybe there are ways to do it without menus, sort of like having a book with magic spell with you. And moving the weapon in different ways signifies different kinds of attack.

VR is just fancier 3D. There is no reason a thing would work in one, but not the other.

 

[Lady_Error]

The immershun is different. And lack of a keyboard in front of you.

 

[mhm32167]

Yeah, the RPG's in VR will obviously have to be 1st person perspective. And how do you simulate turn-based combat in VR?

Like in Wizardry?

Yeah, maybe it can be done. Though turn-based combat in VR might be a bit weird: all the enemies freeze and you have pop-up menus to choose your attack mode or spells.

Maybe there are ways to do it without menus, sort of like having a book with magic spell with you. And moving the weapon in different ways signifies different kinds of attack.

There are okay menus/interface elements currently in various VR games, usually in which you turn your head to look at the menu item and press a button on your controller (as there aren't decent motion-tracked controllers widely available yet). I'm hoping with Valve's controller this christmas you can just point at a menu item and click the controller (the new controllers use motion tracking, so in theory its simply point and click, like a mouse but in VR space). This might work for an isometric turn-based CRPG in which the camera follows the head-tracking and you press something on your controller to trigger the interface, and point and click on the various interface buttons. We'll see though; this kind of input may turn out to be more cumbersome than current methods.

 

[Durante]

I don't see any inherent issue at all with creating a traditional party-based RPG (with a zoomed out third person camera) and turn-based combat in VR. The only question is how compelling that would be.

 

[naossano]

What is VR ?

 

[Lady_Error]

 

[DraQ]

So far clunky accessories remain the most limiting factor for VR.

 

[hiver]

Why arent you guys seeing the awesomeness of AR? Especially in context of cRPG games?

 

[Sykar]

I shudder already thinking of the next gen Dragon Derp 15 and Mass Tard 23 in some odd 20 years, when finally no straight male character exists and the games become utterly retarded bisexualtransgenderfurryhumping steaming pile of turd without even the illusion of gameplay or choice and the retarded masses will continue to buy them while morally bankrupt gaming reviewers will praise even the most brain dead turd into 90%+ heaven. Heck the rating standards will increase to such idiotic standards that any game under 95% will be considered garbage...
Meanwhile the SWJ/Manginas will continue to hump their dogmas in favor of censorship whatever they deem unworthy.

Yeah I know, I'm edgy as fuck.

 

[Jaesun]

Joined: Dec 2, 2014

 

[Sykar]

Joined: Dec 2, 2014

Just call me newfag already.

 

[M0RBUS]

Each year that passes we get closer and closer to the day I release my own cRPG.

So things can only improve, I say! Turn based tactical story-driven survival simulation in a fantasy world with guns? Oh yes...
Granted I still need to learn my way around Turbulenz. God damn script kiddies and their visual editors :shakesfist:

 

[naossano]

Joined: Dec 2, 2014

2004 feels just like yesterday...

 

[Durante]

Why arent you guys seeing the awesomeness of AR? Especially in context of cRPG games?

I don't really see anything in an RPG context which AR would do better than VR, but a lot of things it does worse. Care to clarify?

 

[hiver]

Whats to clarify?

Isometric pov is better presented and feels more natural in AR in the first place. That whole table top schtick and style. You can have PnP sessions with friends locally or online with whole presentation closer to the actual style of playing.
Without any helmet on your head or nausea of artificial space around you. While still being able to do anything else you might need with ease. Like fixing a drink or rolling a splif or whatever.

Why would you need the VR for that? What does that give you? More graphikz?
I could see why VR would be better for FP shooters and such action games but RPGs?

And what does Ar do worse, especially a lot of things worse?