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Level scaling should be scaled to equipment level

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Heresiarch, Jun 2, 2010.

  1. Heresiarch Prophet

    Heresiarch
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    I've been thinking about this: why must a freaking major city like Baldur's Gate, or Athkatla sell only inferior stuff compared to some backwater remote village? Just because the latter must be reached much later in the game?

    Games which did well (and realistic) in this regard are Daggerfall, Morrowind, and sandbox games in general - you CAN obtain very powerful items early on if you're willing to grind grind grind, either looking for hidden treasures which can be reached any time, or just buy them if luck makes a vendor sell it. Heck, in Daggerfall you can get Daedric items in random inn closets.

    But wouldn't level 1 characters with a randomly obtained Vapour Hammer or Daedric Boots of Ass Kicking overpowered? I think the solution is quite simple (but no game has ever done this): why do YOU, the hero, want to kill goblin kings, dragons and infamous powerful outlaws or anti-heroes? Because you KNOW they have phat lewts on them and you want to rob them. So imagine if you're a chaotic evil (or just about any alignment) character, you've heard some puny level 1 NPC has juicy Adamantine Staff of Elemental Annihilation on him, would you like to seek out and hunt him down for the awesome weapon?

    Yes, I think level scaling is not a bad idea, but it should be done scaled to the equipment level, not character level. No sane person (or monster) would be tempted to kill a super powerful character with 99 str 98 con and 99 int (unless eating his corpse would increase its stats), but anyone would want to kill anything - regardless how scary, terrible, dreadful it is - as long as it has the uber equipment which would make him awesum or can be sold for lotsa $$$.

    So maybe one day, in a good RPG, you, Kingcomrade the Luckyass, after having picked up the Power Plate of Ubermensch at level 4, has been suffered from repeated attacks from level 10 elite bandits and level 11 senior wizards. You're quite frustrated, then one day at some local bar after asking the bartender "Newest rumor", he replies:"Have you heard about it? Some weakling has gotten some powerful armor of the Ubermensch"...you now understand why all the guys go after you!
     
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  2. Reject_666_6 Arcane

    Reject_666_6
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    What about if you're playing as a monk, which is really not dependent on equipment for kicking ass? That or a generic glass-cannon type spellcaster?
     
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  3. Jimmy McDunce Novice

    Jimmy McDunce
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    shitty idea
     
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  4. Reject_666_6 Arcane

    Reject_666_6
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    The idea's not shtty at all, but you can't base a game's entire encounter design on it unless you specifically design the game's classes to be equipment-based. The best way to integrate this would be as a mix of this, level scaling and good ol fashioned tough monsters.
     
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  5. Jimmy McDunce Novice

    Jimmy McDunce
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  6. Donkey Balls Educated

    Donkey Balls
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    Enemies should be scaled to your stats/skills, not level, nor equipment.
     
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  7. Jimmy McDunce Novice

    Jimmy McDunce
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  8. kingcomrade Kingcomrade Edgy

    kingcomrade
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    I always didn't like that in Freespace the Liberty ships sucked compared to ones from later areas of the game. It hurt the idea of a cohesive environment. I mean, I understand Freespace was designed as like a single player MMO, so Liberty was Goldshire while Rhineland was the Eastern Plaguelands, but it bugged me.
     
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  9. Reject_666_6 Arcane

    Reject_666_6
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    Not all stats or skills are combat-oriented. You can't make an enemy stronger because your Fighter took a few more ranks in Appraisal. Same with Charisma, Luck or whatever else.
    I think that was Freelancer.
     
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  10. Hobo Elf Arcane

    Hobo Elf
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    Here's an idea: how about no level scaling at all? Holy fucking shit. :idea:
     
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  11. Donkey Balls Educated

    Donkey Balls
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    Yeah, I meant the combat skills. E.g. in Oblivion if you spend a few levels raising your stealth skills only, then you just gimp yourself, since the level scaling only cares about your level.
     
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  12. Donkey Balls Educated

    Donkey Balls
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    Yeah, and enjoy your no free exploration. Like in Divinity 2 you have to first to go to an area with lvl 2 goblins, then lvl 4 goblins, then lvl 6 skeletons, etc.
     
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  13. Gerrard Arcane

    Gerrard
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  14. Hobo Elf Arcane

    Hobo Elf
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    I think it's very adorable when you use Divinity 2 as an example.
     
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  15. Reject_666_6 Arcane

    Reject_666_6
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    Drog's right, having no level scaling at all shoehorns you into very linear paths. (I'm not advocating Oblivion's method of lvl 90 rats either because there are much better ways of doing things.)
     
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  16. Darth Roxor Prestigious Gentleman Wielder of the Huegpenis

    Darth Roxor
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    Yeah. Like in Gothics and Risen.


    Wait, why the fuck am I replying to Drog in the first place?
     
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  17. Donkey Balls Educated

    Donkey Balls
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    My point is there should always be challenge no matter where you go. It shouldn't be possible for someone who's terrible at a game to simply overlevel a difficult encounter.
     
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  18. Reject_666_6 Arcane

    Reject_666_6
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    Gothics pulled it off well because you don't become that much stronger when levelling up, at least not nearly as much as in a D&D game. Tbh, I prefer the Gothic way, but it wouldn't work everywhere.
     
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  19. Lumpy Arcane

    Lumpy
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    I'm not saying that people who advocate level scaling are necessarily stupid - I'm simply suggesting that the world would be a better place if they were euthanized.
     
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  20. Awor Szurkrarz Arcane In My Safe Space

    Awor Szurkrarz
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    Codex 2012
     
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  21. Nex Cipher

    Nex
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    We don't like that kind of revolutionary thinking round ere
     
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  22. Reject_666_6 Arcane

    Reject_666_6
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    yee haw
     
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  23. Squirly Educated

    Squirly
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    Fuck scaling in any way or form. It might be very well impossible to do a properly "balanced" game that way, but then RPGs are all about un-balance (I made teh word) - my stick is bigger than your stick and I can swing it in a superior fashion. Observe!
     
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