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Nevill

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Right, and why would we be the one selected if Wuxing's candidate fails?
Wat.

Could you please tell me where I ever implied that? Or why it is relevant to what I am saying if I didn't?

By casting a vote for the future wielder of the Xuanyuan Sword and having our allies support us.
Oh, I see. My bad.

"By casting a vote for the future wielder of the Xuanyuan Sword and having our allies support our choice."

Better now?
 
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Baltika9

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By casting a vote for the future wielder of the Xuanyuan Sword and having our allies support us. The bonus reputation won't do you much good if they can't support you because you are not there.
This made me think that you want Jing to be selected as the bearer. That's the only reason we would have to be directly participating. Everything else can be achieved by our allies, since we have similar goals here.
 

Nevill

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Can our allies come up with a wielder that Wuxing can't argue against without losing face?

Can they support their case with convincing words?

Again, we are talking about Miazhou Miaofang, Guo Fu and Lingshu here. Possibly Yifang. They are green n00bs when it comes to politics. Well, except for Miazhou, whom we don't know all that well.

I loathe to repeat my argument, but that is only because you repeat the same question of 'how having allies do your job might be worse than doing it yourself?'
 
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treave

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Codex 2012
Ah shit, it just occurred to me: treave, if we don't have any Great Swords on us, what will Shun do if he wishes to make his voice heard? He is going incognito here, so it's not like he can walk up to someone and say "Hi, I'm the Emperor. Mind giving me your Sword, please?" because we're the only one that knows of his identity. Does he have any proof that he is really Emperor Xuande? If our goal here is to give Shun the Xuanyuan Sword - and I believe it is - then giving the Swords away would make things very difficult for him.

He has the Imperial Seal with him if he needs to use it. Rather than the results of the conference itself, though, he's really more interested in who is hosting it and why.

In any case, given that Abbess Miaozhu is a sect head and has been around the jianghu for a long time, I think we can assume that she's at least a bit savvy with how politics works.

I guess I should have clarified, but the Abbess isn't here. The current head of the squad, Sister Miaofang, is taking the lead for Emei in this event.
 

Nevill

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Nevill, do we even know if Guo Fu will be the Wudang Sect representative here? Guo Fu mentioned he would meet a bunch of his bros when he departed from us, perhaps he won't be the one with the Sword. In any case, given that Abbess Miaozhu is a sect head and has been around the jianghu for a long time, I think we can assume that she's at least a bit savvy with how politics works.
Yes. Yes, we do.
Guo Fu is accompanying you as you depart from Shaolin: he would be representing Wudang at the Ten Swords Conference, as they would like to see just who it is that took their Qixing Longyuan sword. He would be meeting up with a few other Wudang disciples in Yangzhou, and so for now he and his family would be travelling with you.
And if the only case for Miazhou you can make is that she is an old-timer (because you never saw her in action - unlike, say, Wuxing), then it does not really bode well for us.
treave said:
I guess I should have clarified, but the Abbess isn't here. The current head of the squad, Sister Miaofang, is taking the lead for Emei in this event.
Great. A complete blank.
 

Nevill

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Still better than having Xu Jing as Emei Sect representative. :lol:
Why?

You expect Wuxing to accept the legitimacy of her claims when she is going to speak against him? :lol: Simply because she is not us?

We are not going to make things worse for our side by participating. The blocks are formed already. But we can - potentially - state our case and support it better than they would.
 
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Tribute

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as they would like to see just who it is that took their Qixing Longyuan sword.
Well, now they know. We have it and we're giving it back. Is Guo Fu still going to be their representative now that they've got their sword back?
 

Nevill

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Yeah. Because she's an Emei nun. An actual nun. From Emei.
What does it change?

Well, now they know. We have it and we're giving it back. Is Guo Fu still going to be their representative now that they've got their sword back?
I assume they do not change their representatives at a drop of a hat. They wanted to be present, they chose their man. I don't see why not.
 

Tribute

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Well, the purpose they chose him for is accomplished. They may want to send their best swordsman instead now, or something.
 

treave

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Guo Fu has built up a pretty big rep in Wudang and the orthodox world in the past two years thanks to his martial prowess, steadfast personality and kind heart. He's the most promising and respectable young man they can send.

...Meanwhile Emei is at a stage of not giving enough fucks that they're okay with having Man Tiger Pig rep for them.
 

Baltika9

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She's not Xu Jing, for one, and doesn't have our horrible rep (like killing a scion of a certain clan). Not much for our allies, yeah, but for the few swing votes that there will be, that can be an important difference.

She's an actual nun from Emei, so her words will be worth more as a member of Emei than ours. Also, less opportunities for Wuxing to talk smack about them with a male representing them. After all, everyone knows about our debaucherous ways. Wonder what we did to warrant such a high honor from them? Keeping the Abbess done company in her old age, perhaps?
 

Tribute

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Guo Fu has built up a pretty big rep in Wudang and the orthodox world in the past two years thanks to his martial prowess, steadfast personality and kind heart. He's the most promising and respectable young man they can send.
Fair enough, I didn't know about any of that.
 

Nevill

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She's not Xu Jing, for one, and doesn't have our horrible rep (like killing a scion of a certain clan). Not much for our allies, yeah, but for the few swing votes that there will be, that can be an important difference.
Well, killing a scion of a certain clan is how we gained our allies in the first place, so the question of the horrible rep is up in the air.

Let's be honest, here. The only swing votes are Qingfeng and Lanhai, who are not going to be swayed with mere words, and zhang Minyue, who is very likely to be pushed for the position of the wielder of the Xuanyuan Sword.

That means that the discussion we are having now is about Minyue alone. She is the only one that can be swayed one way or the other.

In that case, it might be better to have our allies there instead of us, just because they didn't kill her brother. On the other hand, we saved her life just a day ago, so we might want to seek contact with her and her master and come to an understanding that way. Either way, we are going to speak against her as a candidate.

You still did not answer me, however, why would having an 'excellent' reputation with our allies be better than having just 'good' reputation if we are not participating? What difference does it make?

...Meanwhile Emei is at a stage of not giving enough fucks that they're okay with having Man Tiger Pig rep for them.
Damn, that makes me feel bad for them.
 

Baltika9

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You still did not answer me, however, why would having an 'excellent' reputation with our allies be better than having just 'good' reputation if we are not participating? What difference does it make?
Well shit, I think I see where the miscommunication is coming from. That was never mine or Esquilax's point: giving away ALL THE SWORDS isn't meant to win over our allies right now (though it is a great side-benefit that wil help us later down the line), it is to:
Our attempt at heroism didn't quite work out, given we took a -50 hit to our orthodoxy rating. This was a move that could have been seen by her as greedy, while returning every sword we've got would really make her (and everyone else) reconsider their stance on us. We may not have an "official" voice in the Conference, but this action will speak far louder than any words. Our allies will speak with our voice.
This is the best of all worlds. We keep one sword for the conference, and possibly a bit longer. We don't attract aggresion or ire. We confound those who would think the worst of us. We do not feed the Demon.

I don't buy that, everything has pros and cons. We have a voice in the Conference if we keep the Yuchang Sword, but we really show that we're out there to make amends with and ally ourselves with the orthodox world by providing both sect treasures. Giving all three swords away would confound people far more than keeping one would. If you want to keep the sword, then that's understandable, but it isn't the "best of all worlds". Nothing can be.
The "actions speak louder than words" factor, the one that paints us in a completely different light and makes people like Minyue willing to completely rethink their stance on us if we don't act like the jackass our actions and our enemies painted us as. That's the point of giving the swords away right now, to give our side openings to exploit the against the other guys.
 

Nevill

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Well shit, I think I see where the miscommunication is coming from. That was never mine or Esquilax's point: giving away ALL THE SWORDS isn't meant to win over our allies right now (though it is a great side-benefit that wil help us later down the line), it is to:
Well, excuse me, I didn't think we were trying to win over our enemies.

I don't think the gesture is going to win the Taishan disciple over to the point where he would cease supporting Nie Wuxing against the wishes of his master. Their sect acknowledges Wuxing as the leader of the pugilistic world, after all.

That leaves Minyue. Is that what it is about? Are we going to bet on a chance that the gesture would be so grandiose that she would forsake her own candidature (well, if they make her one, that is - I still have no idea what Wuxing's angle for the conference would be) and go along with whatever the sects and people allied with Man Tiger Pig would propose? Because it sounds like this is what you are trying to get out of it.

I don't know. If something meaningful can be achieved without swords, I would not be opposed to it. It's just I doubt that we can do anything better by leaving the others to do our job for us. We never really chose to be on the sidelines before, and for a good reason. You want something done, you are better off doing it yourself.
 

Baltika9

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Well shit, if they'll be pushing Minyue as their candidate, what can we do with our without the sword? Absolutely nothing, who is our alternative? Us?

treave, I remember how you said that the mere thought of Lord Zhang Jue and Xu Jing supporting the Emperor will be enough to make certain people shit brix. My question is: is he at all willing to intervene and claim the Xuanyuan sword as his own if we plan for it? I would be totally down with us being the one to lend him our sword as a show of support (the Emei would be extatic). Big deal for me, so is like to know.
 
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Nevill

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Well shit, if they'll be pushing Minyue as their candidate, what can we do with our without the sword? Absolutely nothing, who is our alternative? Us?
The Saint. Guo Fu. Murong Yandi as yet another Saint's disciple.

Bai Jiutian. :lol:

Alternatively, we can make a case that the sword has to be returned to the Emprah. They would find it hard to argue against that.

Or we are just wasting time trying to predict what would happen without having a clue if our understanding of how the conference works is even correct. Instead of, you know, going there and checking things out for ourselves.
 

Baltika9

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And what CB is all about is letting the orthodox sectarians do the talking in the conference, where their words will weigh heavier with the HONORABRU orthodox crowd than ours will, while we use the public goodwill we can build up with that to try and sway the outlyong votes to our bloc. Yes, Minyue. Yes, the Taishan kid. Yes, the Saint if he bothers to show up.
 

treave

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Codex 2012
treave, I remember how you said that the mere thought of Lord Zhang Jue and Xu Jing supporting the Emperor will be enough to make certain people shit brix. My question is: is he at all willing to intervene and claim the Xuanyuan sword as his own if we plan for it? I would be totally down with us being the one to lend him our sword as a show of support (the Emei would be extatic). Big deal for me, so is like to know.

Only he can say, and he's not telling. In fact, when you ask him, he makes this face:

:troll:

In other words, you'll have to wait and see.
 

Baltika9

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Flipping to xB since I'm suddenly indecisive about giving up the Yuchang. And not just because I want to troll the Douchebag Council by lending it to Shun on the podium. I can see the merits of both Nevill's and Esquilax's arguments, just can't decide which one is better for us.

On the one hand, yeah, we make a very large gesture that can really turn public perception of us around, solidify our alliances and screw Wuxing's plans up with a very unexpected move from us. Instead of the trollish MTP with a horrible two whose words he can shit all over from his ivory tower, he is facing two highly respected reps from Wudang and Emei and a beefed up Lingshu.

On the other, we souks be the perfect speaker against him, we would have more control on the ground and we'd keep the Yuchang, the sword we are very familiar with and which is the basis of our own style, with us for a while longer in case shit hits the fan.

Hmmm.
 

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