[LP CYOA] 傳

I don't really think that the C choices make much sense. We are already posing as the merchant's son, and we have told a number of people (I think) that we have an invite as our persona and that we are planning on entering.

If we enter as a person with a mask, someone might realize that our persona did not enter and that the pig-masked guy was not seen before, so they could connect who we were anyway. It seems silly to try to make another disguise when most everyone already believes our first one, anyway. If anything, the mask might make people even more suspicious about us.

I don't think we should throw the poor farmer under the bus. He is a bro and has done nothing to us. If we are intent on hiding our real identity anyway, we shouldn't stir the flames lest they come back and burn us.

 

This. We already have a perfectly good cover identity that allows us to freely mingle with our competitors. Why jeopardize that by inventing yet another unnecessary identity that could then be traced to us, leading to question of who we really are and what are our motives? Why complicate by adding more ways that things can go wrong with our plan?

Oh, and it's not like this is a Superman movie, where we can just put on glasses and suddenly nobody will recognise us the guy they were talking to 5 minutes ago. Somebody will notice sooner or later that the new guy in a mask is built, dressed and talks remarkably similar to their new merchant friend that just never seems to be around with the new guy.

 

B2

 

Ah fuck it, looks like B2 will win out anyways. I find it unusual that some of the people that voted to paint the walls with Song Lingshu's blood are now losing heart when it comes to C1. Azira, Kipeci, you guys are stone-cold bros that know the value of getting shit done. Do you disagree with me on this one?

Our merchant character is a nobody, remember? Remember that according to treave, we're a "naive newbie pretending to be a masked pig" in C. The double-identity allows us to maximize our potential here: the merchant boy allows us to fly under the radar and use our charisma, likability and harmless demeanour to make friends while being generally invisible, while the Zhang Jue alias

But that's the point: it won't be traced to us. That's why we're spreading rumours. If there are multiple Zhang Jue apprentices coming out of the woodwork, nobody will know who to look for.

And our identity doesn't give us as much free reign as the mask would. With our masked identity, we can discover the flaws in our opponent's techniques without them actually seeing who they are. A few months down the road when we're challenging people face to face, they'll know us as the merchant boy who was Zhang's apprentice all along - but unbeknownst to them, we would have their style figured out beforehand from the incognito sparring matches in the tournament. Really, I can't see how the two-way flow of information doesn't favour C1.

This is what it's really about. I think this is ultimately why people aren't voting for (1), and this is what it all comes down to. You guys just don't feel comfortable with causing the good-hearted Farmer trouble - and that's perfectly okay. But you have to realize that this is the main reason you're doing it, and it has nothing to do with practicality. You could give people all the reasons for why C1 will work - and it will work - but just like Smashing Axe said, you give the Codex a bro character, and they'll abandon a perfectly good plan at the drop of a hat.

 

B1

Yes it is a dick move, but it has benefits. Hopefully, we can protect/assist him discretely so that he doesn't get killed for it.

 

They'll know us the merchant boy who was Zhang's apprentice all along without the mask in B as well. What does it matter if we have their style figured out beforehand from the incognito sparring matches or fake identity sparing matches? Is there a practical difference that justifies the risk to our current identity if it becomes known the merchant boy is behind the mask (and I really don't see us fooling everyone with something that simple)?

 

I agree about us liking bros, but I don't even see that we have a solid benefit from 1 that would make me want to do it.

If it was more spelled out that people would strongly believe that the farmer was our master's disciple , then I might be tempted to vote for it because it would help us keep our identity, but I just don't buy our chances.

I'm not saying that it wouldn't work as it is, but I don't feel like jeopardizing this man when we don't even know how it will play out is reckless. People might not believe us or even track down who was spreading all the rumors and get suspicious. We also don't know what kind of fighter the farmer is. If he doesn't live up to their expectations, then people might look elsewhere.

I think the main thing that is going to give us away is us kicking a lot of ass as a random fighter. If we play our cards right and don't be too obvious about our abilities, we shouldn't have to make everyone think that the farmer is Zhang's apprentice because they wouldn't think that someone like us would be able to make it. Likewise, if we go around punching holes in people's chests, then no amount of rumors will probably convince people that we aren't Zhang's apprentice.

 

That or Cao'er or Yifang showing up to spectate and blowing our cover out of ignorance or by warning our opponent.

 

Huge difference. They'll know that the merchant boy is Zhang's apprentice, but they won't connect the dots of the masked fighter also being the merchant boy. At least, not until it's too late. If we play our cards right here - and casting suspicion on Guo Fu will ensure that we will - they won't come to the conclusion that the fighter with the pig mask, Zhang's apprentice, and the merchant boy are one and the same. That's the whole point.

Isn't this why we have a friend like Chi Qilin? We have ways of assisting Guo Fu without having to compromise our whole fucking mission here:

We use our harmless merchant persona to get wind of any ill-intent towards Guo Fu, then perhaps we call in a favour with Qilin: if we get wind of someone planning to hurt Guo Fu, perhaps they'll find themselves drowsy and weak when it's time to strike. Then they have to contend with this massive beast of a man pummelling them to death with his fists. Yes, this presents problems of its own (we'll have to owe Chi Qilin), but I really think that this is the best bet here.

Also, I would like to say that B1 is unnecessary here. C1 is necessary because we need Guo Fu to divert people from the double-identity we'll be leading, but you don't need to throw Guo Fu under the bus if you have a harmless identity that flies under the radar pretty well to begin with.

First off, I have faith in Jing's Speech skills here. These Shaolin monks seem to be rather gullible and we're rather charismatic, so they'll buy it. Furthermore, by the time the Farmer doesn't end up living up to their expectations, the tournament will likely be over. Once a rumour like this spreads, it's very difficult to find out who initially spread it (unless of course we do something idiotic like A1). It's like when a rumour spreads in high school: nobody really knows where it first came from. And at that point, nobody really cares.

I'd also like to point out that our goal in this tournament has never been to kick a lot of ass. It has always been: Find out as much as possible about our opponent's psychological and technical weaknesses while revealing as few of our own weaknesses as possible. I believe that C1 is the best way to do so.

This is actually less likely with C1. If we're wearing a mask during the tournament, then they don't know who is behind the mask. Granted, they might have suspicions, but they won't know for sure, and as the update indicated, there are lots of gimmicky masked fighters in the tournament every year, so it could be anybody. If we're competing as the merchant boy, they'll recognize our face.

 

Keep fighting the good morally dubious fight Esquilax. I don't have much hope of C1 winning, what with the way the codex is, but it would be such an interesting outcome. We really do have the capability to successfully pull a Shulgi with multiple personas, which I've been wanting to do for a while now. I also think with the large numbers we currently have voting, that arguing for an option in accordance to a certain strategy has lost the edge it once had. There's often too much discussion and too many differing viewpoints to reach an accord, or a long-term strategy. Right now we're all over the place with our decision making. Also I know when I see seven or eight pages of discussion, I often skip a lot of it and vote the way I want to, not having the time or inclination to sift through a long discussion. It's just the way it is.

 

Here's a little thought experiment: if the Farmer character was an asshole - let's say he were someone like Master Rong's son - would you still be voting against C1? If you would be voting against C1 regardless of the Farmer's personality, regardless of whether he was a saint or the devil, why? I have not seen a convincing case that wasn't predicated on something other than "It isn't cool, bro".

 

But what does that actually give us in practical terms? Why would us sparing incognito be better then us sparring under a false name when we come to them? We wouldn't gain any more information from it - in fact, we would learn less as they wouldn't talk to us while we are wearing a mask. And since we are not going to use our full capabilities anyway, them knowing that they have or haven't fought us before is irrelevant. It makes no difference if they are fighting our incognito identity or our false identity since all they are going to know about us is what we show them in the ring. And the risk of somebody noticing that we are the same person is high, unless everyone there is oblivious.

 

What, morality doesn't count as an argument? All right, how about because starting this rumour could be traced back to us too easily? All it takes is for the farmer to find out why everyone is avoiding him like the plaque, deny it and then ask who said that he was the Maniac's apprentice. And then you have people looking at us funny wondering if we are lying and we have made an enemy of the farmer boy.

 

If the farmer was a jerk, then I am sure that a lot of us would be voting to try to use him to our advantage. It is just like the Songfeng School. We chose to kill him because he was a jerk and we felt that he had earned the punishment (I think. It was a while ago.)

Begging that question is irrelevant, though, because he isn't a jerk at all. What we don't want to do is cause some great harm to the poor chap because he has done nothing deserving of it. Like I was trying to say in my post, and I probably horribly failed to get the point across, we don't know how much trouble we would be putting him in if we spread rumors about him. As I see it, at least, we are weighing the possible gain of misdirecting some suspicion from us onto him, but we are gambling with the unknown nature of the deceit. While it might be just that, rumors, for all we know it could lead to his getting cast out of the pugilistic world or even getting he or his wife killed or wounded.

I am more willing to accept personal responsibility for hiding our identity and the faults that could come of that than I am willing to gamble with an innocent man's future. We are Tigers, not Monkeys!

 

I'm not voting yet, but I'm leaning towards B2, for two reasons
Guys, why are we making this more complicated than it has to be. Why are we treating this like a play at the Versailles? I get the whole "we want to avoid detection as long as possible and learn as much as possible about the enemy." What I don't get is how taking the title of Zhang Jue will help us: for one, it will draw a shit ton of attention from everyone present, the Masters included (remember, even they don't know the Maniac's apprentice was invited). All eyes will be on the crazy motherfucker that claims to be The Southern Maniac and not the dude that s rumored to be his apprentice. Also, that will make the more skilled students come after us right off the bat and on the surface, that sounds fucking great: our plan is working, we get to fight them and no one gets to see our face! However, that also means that we will have to up our game and start throwing our more advanced shit out there, and this is where the problems will start: between the aggressive way we fight and the rather un-Maniac way the Farmer will fight, they'll start to put the pieces together. After all, the Maniac is called that for a reason and many people heard of his deeds, some in the crowd have actually seen him perform those deeds, so no way anyone believe that his apprentice is a mild-mannered fighter that pulls his punches, but rather the real apprentice is the guy that's using moves oddly similar to, OH SHI-, Shouwang Claws. On the other hand, if we go in udner our merchant alias, then I think we will be able to fly by the preliminary battle royale and 4x4 with just our raw talent:

Jing isn't impressed by his competition and honestly, most of these guys are amateurs. Even without using our best stuff, I think we can bullshit our way through the initial matches.

The other factor is, the Farmer is a bro. I won't even try to lie about this, fucking him over just sits wrong with me. He's an unorthodox type, just like us, who has been dealt a bad hand and is now trying to make the best of his life for him and his wife. Trying to get his life straight in the world. Bros, I can't fuck over a guy like that.

Do you have any idea how rare it is to find a bro in a treave LP? A bro is worth his weight in gold (which is a whole fucking lot for the Ox Farmer ) and I want to keep working with this guy down the line. Making friends with the right individuals is extremely important for someone like Jing, whom "upstanding orthodox" types will scorn wherever he goes. FarmerBRO is going places if he gets the chance, so I'd rather start getting into his good graces now. And keep him as far away as fucking possible from Zhang.
Also, forget about EPIC protagonists, Jing is none of them. He's not a cerebral Shulgi-type, he's not a headfirst heroic Ean-type, he's his own dude. Let this be his story, ffs.

Alright, there's the third factor, trolling. I want to see the look on our marks' faces when the well-mannered merchant's son rolls up to their schools and challenges them to a duel. "Oh, I never did tell you that I am Zhang Jue's student, did I? "

Edit: I agree with Kashmir Slippers on his last point.

 

In fact, if you guys so desperately want to turn this into a Theater of Drama, I'd say A1 is your est bet:
"I'm the Maniac's Apprentice!"
"No, that big buff dude is!"
"Can there be two of them?"
"Oh, never mind, that Jing fellow lost so embarrassingly, no way he's the Maniac's student. The buff dude it is."

That, and I really, really don't want to explain to Zhang why we dressed up in a pig mask and took his name. That would be...bad.

 

This debate is academic now that it's all but certain that B2 will win, so I suppose that this'll be my last word on this.

Lots. When we start challenging people down the road, they won't know that we've actually fought them before, therefore, their techniques will be known to us, but our techniques will be unknown to them. A highly perceptive and intelligent fighter might remember us if the fight lasts long, but our speed, aggression and strength will ensure that we win before that sort of fighter manages to put the pieces together. If they have seen our face before, they have a better idea of what we're capable and they're on a more even playing field with us. The more that we can make that playing field uneven, the better. You can defeat an enemy before you've even stepped into the ring.

The only way that the Farmer boy figures out that we started the rumour is if we are dumb enough to vote for A1. Registering as Zhang's apprentice while accusing someone else of being Zhang's apprentice is really dumb, as I've said before. The farmer boy is not particularly bright (though his wife might be), so if we accuse him of being the Maniac's apprentice while keeping our hands clean, it'll work quite well.

The reason why I don't find morality to work as an argument here is because I feel you're trying to create reasons as to why C1 won't work that are ultimately influenced by your desire not to harm Guo Fu. If you don't want to put him in jeopardy, that's fine, but that doesn't make C1 any less effective.

Good point about the Masters not yet being aware that the Southern Maniac's apprentice will be arriving. However, I would like to point out that our intention with this would not be to win, but rather to learn the techniques of our opponents. We don't have to pull out our Shouwang Claws in combat, we would simply rely on our neigong and our Mad Wolf Step to avoid damage while trying to perceive flaws as much as possible here. Remember that the bigwigs here have probably met Zhang before, and he has a rather distinctive build. They don't see our face, but Zhang is rather distinctive in that he's a huge guy who is covered in battle scars - they'd know him if they saw him, and they'll know just from our build that we're not the man himself, and likely some joker trying to stir the pot. Remember, the goal here is not to win, it's to learn.

I disagree with you on the approach, but you know what, this is an attitude that I can respect. You feel uncomfortable with using the man for your own ends, you don't want to stoop to that level, and that's that. I'm totally cool with that. What I am not cool with is manufacturing these rationalizations that C1 won't be effective when deep down, you probably know that it is. This is why I felt that the question was quite relevant, btw. People don't want to fuck the nice, honest guy and his sweet wife over - really, that's reason enough not to do it! You don't have to invent any other ones.

 

Guys, guys, I'll just remind you that we have an INT stat of 7. He may be cunning, but he's no genius mastermind. This doesn't affect any of the choices here, which can be viable in creating the desired effect on the competition even at his level of intelligence, but do keep in mind that if you really wanted to play a super smart character that pulls everyone's strings, and has exceedingly complex, farsighted plans, you lost that chance when character voting closed. The stats just don't justify such an ability. You may have your own plans as voters, but it doesn't mean the character will be capable of pulling it off.

If you really want a master plan in-game, you are better off finding a strategist NPC who can provide you with one. For now, what is happening here is that the character is pretty much making things up as he goes, improvising a very bare bones plan. Shulgi he is not, not even with a successful C.

 

Yeah, that's something that really confuses and pisses me off, voting based on our previous characters. Self referential humor is fine and dandy, but who gives a shit what Shulgi/Ean/Marius Hax/Jeremiah would do in this situation.
Xu Jing is Xu Jing, he's his own guy with his own story. On that note,
B2

 

+ =

 

I'm still reading through the thread but for god's sake:

If you're going to do B, do C! There is NO REASON WHATSOEVER to do B. It's exactly the same but we are LESS ANONYMOUS. What is more anonymous, "John Doe the Merchant's Son" you met + "John Doe the Merchant's Son" you see in the ttournament... vs "John Doe the Merchant's Son who already said he's not sure he will compete" + "Zhang Jue Trololo"? It is just painfully obvious and none of the B voters have actually explained at all why it's better. With C, onlookers won't even be sure we competed, and people won't even remember our face because they can't freaking see it. If we slip and lay the smack down or use a Zhang technique, other participnts may know but onlookers won't know it's John Doe the Merchant's Son...look, C has no downsides to B and many potential upsides AND is funnier. What's with this "B2 kthxbai" bandwagon?

As for 1/2 and Esquilax's plan, I obviously am supportive of misdirection. For those reluctant to screw the Farmer over I think the rumours this creates will make things uncertain enough that the Farmer is not screwed over much.

As for the intelligence warning, sure Jing is not Senya or Dio but I think he's already proved he's quick on his feet and good enough with his words to do this. It's not particularly complicated - just maintain our meek mild-mannered identity and say we did this to hopefully make our opponents a bit apprehensive so we won't be beaten up too badly, and of course, guys, my Shaolin buddies, you know I'm not the apprentice.

Besides, we will be creating the situation: "I'M ZHANG JUE! NO, I"M ZHANG JUE!"

 

Having read all the posts: guys, if you are refusing C1 on grounds of morality or wanting Jing to be a more front and centre fellow, fine: pick C2, which is clearly the best bet for anonymity.

B2 is neither the best option for manipulation nor for anonymity. It reduces the value of our merchant's son persona, it reveals our face to the world, and if we do screw up and show ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZhang's techniqueees or something the repercussions are higher. For NO TANGIBLE BENEFIT whatsoever, I haven't read a single thing saying why B2 is better than C2.

 

Yeah, my warning wasn't so really much for this choice, rather than hedging against a dark and terrible future where people get butthurt their long game meta-plan didn't pan out the way it would because they overestimated the character's intelligence, thinking that he was just as smart as they are.

 

We told the monks that we would be participating. If our face doesn't appear, we must be one of the masked fighters. Specifically, we'll be the masked fighter that otherwise looks exactly like us. If we succumb to the r00fles and declare that we are Zhang, presumably they're going to be rather confused by our behavior and things could unravel rather heavily from there if you really are stuck on that anonymity bent.

 

Wrong.

We said we are not sure about participating. We can choose to keep the mask on the whole tim, if we want / need, dodging recognition; or we can simply say we were nervous, etc.

Wearing a mask is NOT suspicious because many people are doing it. And our Shaolin friends already talked about how those 'jokers' aren't taken very seriously, so it HELPS us - in C1's confusion, or in C2's low profile.

Again, my point is if you want anonymity and no fucking about with tricks, C2 > B2. Again, I have not yet heard any positive reason for the reverse.