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[LP CYOA] 傳

Discussion in 'Choose Your Own Adventure Land' started by treave, Aug 29, 2013.

  1. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    Uh... how about 'because Jing will tell everyone about it'? We will be appealing to our reputation of not being a friend to the orthodox sects. That would necessitate declaring our identity, I guess. Because a random dude asking to release the hostage would not really work.

    As for them attacking... the Saint is a deterrent, but if we are sure he can stop a fight from breaking out, why are we even interfering? Emotions might cloud the judgement, and Jing declaring his allegiance to the Fire Cult in such an open manner is like throwing a can of gasoline into a fire.

    Yes, I know we already fought on their side. But while it makes us the enemy of the orthodox sects, it does not make us the same as them. I think it will work in favor of the diversion.

    My plan is to distract them to the point that Qilin is no longer required, or is freed. Attacking them is just one of the options.

    And that was because he wasn't a stationary target:
    Thankfully, the guy in question is.

    Depends on how far they are, and how aware they are of their surroundings. The distraction is going to help there, too.

    Oh, and I believe Qilin can just run off, if there wouldn't be a guy holding her by the throat.

    About what?

    I don't know. I am arguing for A. You brough C up yourself. :D
     
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  2. Baltika9 Arcane

    Baltika9
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    Your argument against C was that, should Nie Wuxing and BJ recognize Jing among the Cult, they will order a charge. As Kipeci rightly noted, how the fuck will they do it across the field with BJ's attention elsewhere, Wuxing not knowing what we look like, and Jing's back turned to them, since we're running in the opposite direction and all. Sure, they'll get suspicious in about five-ten minutes, but that's all we need to strike a deal. After that, they can do whatever they want, Qilin will be safe. And, yeah, the Amesha Spentas are uber-powerful dudes, on par and some even stronger than the orthodox sect masters. Even if the pressure points somehow catch one (and those with powerful neiggong are known to be able to neutralize that, the Fire Cult places a lot of emphasis on their spirituality), then there are still three of them here and it is incredibly risky to gamble Qilin's life on something like that. I'd be all for it if Jing were playing with his own life, but he isn't, and this seems a stupid risk to take for one of our girls.
     
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  3. Elfberserker Liturgist

    Elfberserker
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    Flopping to C.

    I just realized that we won't right a away join Fire cult side in C. I don't think making peace between orthodox schools and firecult guys is viable for Jing. Naturally rescuing Qilin takes highest priority, even if we most likely have to trade favors with Fire lord but we cross that bridge when we come to it.
     
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  4. Azira Arcane Patron

    Azira
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    The two forces are clearly arrayed closely enough that they can see eachother. If Jing, with his 4 in perception (lower than average) can see Qilin clearly enough to recognise her, anyone who's seen Man Tiger Pig before will be able to recognise him as the twerp running excitedly towards the Fire Cults lines. There's more to recognising a person than their face. A master will probably have a high enough perception to recognise Jing even if he were trying to disguise himself, and in this case he isn't.

    Besides, begging is so un-Jing like...
     
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  5. Nevill Arcane

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    We are heading in the same direction with Nie Wuxung. He is getting closer to the cultists.

    Anyway, I have no idea how you are going to remain anonymous. I don't even know why you are clinging to that particular point. It takes time to persuade the cultists. Jing will be declaring his identity for that. What the orthodoxes would do is a question, but if they are not dissuaded from the attack right now, they are going to be even more eager to fight the cultists once we try to join them.

    We might or might not persuade the cultists by that time.

    I don't think this is a point of A. I don't see it saying 'peace' anywhere. For now, the priority number one is to save Qilin.
     
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  6. Baltika9 Arcane

    Baltika9
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    Except none of the present Masters know us, and BJ, the only man of the bunch close enough to recognize us immediately, is busy serving wine and generally being Shagguan's bitch, then we have time to do our magic. Yeah, not seeing the point here. What will get us recognzied instantly, however, is A.

    If they want to fight after we secure Qilin, by all means.
     
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  7. Nevill Arcane

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    And the six Taishan guys who just fought us will never notice us.

    If anonymity is your ace, it is not going to work.

    Or, since the trick didn't work against the orthodox pugilists, they will make you fight, like Kashimir Slippers suggested. It would be a waste not to use that hostage one way or another.
     
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  8. Baltika9 Arcane

    Baltika9
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    Great, all we need is enough time to get up to the Cult and start our dialogue, I suppose 7 stealth is enough to avoid detection for that long. If the sects want to bum-rush us and them for negotiating over a hostage, then they can have fun (and lots of it) getting past Shagguan, the dude that's here specifically to prevent fighting and violence. All we need is Qilin out of the firing line, and then they can do whatever they want.
    And cowering behind big, strong Shagguan is even less so.
     
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  9. Nevill Arcane

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    Where it is said that he would approach the Fire Cult discreetly? It is getting dangerously close to 'vote C for +1 stealth'.

    As I said, if Shagguan is such a deterrent, why are we even trying to do anything? Let him do all the work!
    No, I am not going to, sorry.

    Or they can use her as a leverage against you to ensure your cooperation. Since, you know, you are not one of them.
    I don't know why you think they are going to just release her. If Yunzi can't do it, why would we be able to? What makes us superior to her in that regard?
     
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  10. Azira Arcane Patron

    Azira
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    Sitting trollishly in the midst of the battle-lines drinking wine while people are clamoring for a fight is "cowering"? :lol: Can't see how you can make a bigger target out of yourself.
     
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  11. Kipeci Magister

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    Yes, and how are they going to hear that all the way on the other side of the battlefield? You seem paranoid that the head of Huashan will immediately rush over to attack the other side on the sole basis of Jing joining up with them, I'm just stating that Nie isn't going to be paying breathtakingly close attention to some guy talking to the Fire Cult way across the battlefield and so he isn't going to be able to tell that it's Jing, let alone if he can't recognize him and the people who are are otherwise occupied.

    We're not declaring allegiance, we're negotiating the release of Qilin. I don't care about the greater fight, but I do care about her, and I think that negotiating to get her out of there is much more likely to bear fruit than just sort of lazing around and hoping everything blows over. Why should the orthodox give a shit if some guy out of many is talking on the Fire Cult's side?

    Why do you think the Fire Cult, in for the fight of most of their lives, is going to be distracted from what they think is one of the few chips they have left to secure their safety by the trollish antics of some drinker who stumbled in halfway? No one has time for Jing's shit right now, and betting Qilin's life on them humoring Jing seems kinda shitty. If you want to go for the option where you distract and attack the Fire Cult to get Qilin out of there, go for the option that has you actually do that, not the option where we get a drink. Personally, I'd prefer some diplomacy.

    And you think he and all his buddies are going to stay stationary and do nothing if a hail of needles starts coming their way? What do you take them for?

    Okay, I think I see what the plan is.

    These extremely strong fire cultists are vigilantly watching every butterfly flitter across the field instead of paying any attention to the one potential lifeline they think they've secured. They will be completely distracted by the drunken antics of some teenager who showed up and will not react when a girl begins flinging needles all throughout them, taking advantage of the fact that these trained martial artists will obviously have no defense against such an assault between all of them anyway. Their fellow cultists will be similarly enthralled and will stand around picking their noses while Qilin runs away.

    Is that about how it goes?

    This attack, of course, all happens as a result of a choice that doesn't imply any aggression against the Fire Cult when we've just taken their side a little in a fight and have positive relations.
     
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  12. Baltika9 Arcane

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    I never said that this would come for free, they will definitely want something in exchange. Something like "help us escape." And if that's what gets Qilin to safety best, then so be it. I have nothing personal against the Fire Cult, and neither does Jing. Thing is, I am not at all convinced that sitting in the middle and agitating, waiting for a Hallelujah moment to pop up is the best we can do for her.
    By doing so, we will be relying on Shagguan to keep all the people that want to tear us a new asshole away (and there are a lot of them), so yeah, we'll be like that guy sitting behind the biggest dude in the room and throwing insults at everyone.
     
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  13. Kipeci Magister

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    I only bring this up because Nevill was struck by the concern that the head of Huashan will drop everything and any concerns about the Sword Saint in favor of a wild rush due to recognizing us talking with the Fire Cult, which I personally think is unlikely. Even if that's a problem, we know that the guy couldn't recognize us while holding a full conversation in the alternate timeline, he'd only be seeing our back as we talk to the Fire Cult, and the people who have fought us are a bit too busy nursing their wounds, being paralyzed, etc. to rush forth and report on us, even if the Orthodox guys cared enough to make everyone report the moment Jing shows up to the highest authority (which, again, I don't think is likely.)

    Basically, Nevill's argument was that C will make the orthodox guys immediately attack before we can even talk a little and I said that that's bullshit. Are you arguing otherwise?

    Because it is Jing-like to abandon your friend and lover while she's in a chokehold in favor of drinking with those cool and pretty orthodox guys like the Sword Saint and BJ, right? Jing did a fair amount of diplomacy in the past, it's time to work on it a bit more.
     
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  14. Nevill Arcane

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    Now, that is not what I was saying, and yes, Nie Wuxung is withing the talking distance with the Fire Cult leader. And we are going tthere in C, too. I don't see how that equals 'across the battlefield'.
    Nie Wuxung is going to hear everything we say. That is my point. If you think otherwise, so be it. Confirm it with treave or something.
    How he will react to it is open to interpretation.

    By pointing out that we are the enemies of the Eight Sects and not on their side. And the reason Qilin was attacked is because there were only two sides. Guess where that leaves us in everyone's eyes.

    Because we are not just 'some guy'?

    Because we will be distracting Nie Wuxung, their enemy, and they would want to know WTF is going on?

    Thank you, I'll do exactly that.
    If they notice them, that is.
    It is nice of you to try ang cling to the one particular opportunity that we don't even know would present itself. For all we know, Zhang will come by in five minutes and everyone will just forget about Qilin altogether.

    I am stalling for time and searching for the opportunities. In the meantime, I am trying to prevent the event they are holding the hostage for in the first place.

    No, you don't.

    By the way, there is another factor to this. I remember the Saint telling Yandi to become friends with as much people as possible, and Qilin is one of his friends. Letting her die is kind of counter-productive to the Saint's goals. So maybe we could count on his help in the matter, after all.
     
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  15. Azira Arcane Patron

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    All of this is conjecture and guesswork. We have no idea how the different parties will react to any of these choices.

    I for one feel that option A is the most fitting for Jing. He knows Qilin is quite resourceful, and each and every option is worded in a way that suggests Jing has a plan.
    A sets Jing up in the center, to attract some attention, win some time.
    B is hanging back, trying to get a better handle on the situation, so as not to jinx matters, while relying on the Sword Saint.
    C is appealing to the ones holding his waifu captive, relying on the goodwill of the Fire Cult.
    D sees him relying on noone but himself, trying to sweep in and save Qilin, all other considerations be damned.

    In my view, A seems to be the option best suited for setting Jing where he can try and make sure that neither side does anything stupid.

    We came here to try and break up the fighting, yes? Let's stick to that.
     
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  16. Kashmir Slippers Augur

    Kashmir Slippers
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    Dearest me for not knowing exactly how every option is going to turn out like you seem to always do.

    Seriously. You say it is impossible to make Jing a scapegoat. I say it is possible. We have fought on the side of the Fire cult. None of the orthodox sects like us. The Fire cult has our woman. That is all they need to make us do something stupid for her return that will make us the main evil left. Say that we help them escape like you imply. Are we going to run away from China as well? Do you think that the orthodox sects will just let us get away with helping their mortal enemies escape unscathed? Once they are gone we will be the only ones left. That by its very principle makes us a scapegoat for the cult.

    We also don't know how we match up to the orthodox sects' strongest either. We just lost to a bit of trickery from a "young fighter" like you said. We are by no means the best fighter out here. If helping them escape means taking on Nie Wuxung, though, then we will be incredibly outmatched. I am not willing to take that chance so they "might" give her back. We also have to remember that they have no reason to bargain with us. If they see that Qilin is so dear to us, they may jut keep her to have a bargaining chip with us for the future.

    We also do not know where this is going. People are ignoring what Nie is going to do. For all we know he is going to start a parley, and us rushing headlong into the cult might set off a bomb. He might not, granted, but we are jumping to conclusion again. Sitting with the Sword Saint will let us see what develops in a relatively safe position. It isn't "hiding behind him" or "cowering" either. We might just be thirsty after our fight and want to rub Bai's nose in the ground by having to serve us drinks. It also opens up a dialogue with the Saint. He is an unorthodox fighter like us and could serve as an invaluable ally/mentor for later when we have alienated all of the orthodox community like you all seem to desire. To cut this option as a "coward" only choice is dong it a great disservice.

    Also, i don't see why we are in such a dangerous rush to get to Qilin. Granted, she is in a precarious position, but we need to think about how much of a danger she is in. I doubt that they would just kill her if they found out that she was of no use to them. She might, but I don't think so. If anything, bartering with them for her freedom will make her that much more valuable to them than she is right now.
     
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  17. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    Eh, we already passed up Operation Maiden Capture because it was too trollish for our tastes and we were certain no one would appreciate such a troll and it will only make things worse. Turns out it was one of the best options.

    I am not about to make the same mistake twice. Jing knows how to become the center of everyone's attention. The more attention is focused on him, the less attention there is on Qilin or on the upcoming fight. I'd say we should let him work his magic.
     
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  18. Elfberserker Liturgist

    Elfberserker
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    This might be just me being hungry and very sleepy, but I am beginning to think that we are misinterpreting situation. There is couple of facts we have to consider.

    Mystery FACTS!:
    - Does Nie Wuxian know that Qilin is of Wudu cult? It would be pretty strange for Sect leader to kill possible innocent civilian in such high public place.
    - Why did Nie showed such disgust toward Sword saint? Is it because Sword saint doesn't belong to any sect or something else.
    - Is Sword Saint just lazy or does he have something in his mind? We may not know his motives, but letting Young girl to die in this fashion just doesn't seem to be his style.
    -Why is Nie holding the sword in the air? Is he amoral in such extend that he would allow innocent girl to die? Remember people this guy seems to have reputation being more orthodox than most orthodox guys.
    -
    ....

    Flopping back to A,
     
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  19. Nevill Arcane

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    There is a speculation that the Saint was a Huashan disciple once.

    Lazy people do not reach such heights.
     
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  20. Kipeci Magister

    Kipeci
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    That's not true. The update says that the two camps are exchanging 'angry shouts', and that's all we get about that, no declaration that they're in 'talking distance'. Thinking that the other side is going to perfectly and crisply pick up whatever it is that we say doesn't really seem that accurate.

    Or by pointing out that she's not Orthodox and that the other side won't care a lick if they threaten her? Anyway, the original point here is that you're saying that Jing talking to the Fire Cult is going to so inflame the other side that they all rush over at once and Qilin gets killed. I think that's bullshit.

    When our back is turned to them and they're a distance away we might as well be. When Jing's power is nothing compared to the leaders of the sects and the Fire Cult I still don't see why him being there is reason enough to encourage an attack.

    That option does not say attack, it only says 'try to distract'. The option D, on the other hand, says:

    If you want to distract and attack them, D's your option. A doesn't attack them, treave would lead that aspect up to a vote of itself since we have a marginally positive relationship with them as opposed to a terrible one where we're enemies on sight. At best for A we'd get a chance to do that in another update, but if you just want to distract and attack them, I don't know why you wouldn't try to pull it off now instead of doing the distract part now and waiting for the next update to try to attack.

    Oh, if they noticed the hail of needles that paralyzed their buddy right next to them, right. World class pugilists sleep through that shit all the time.
    If Zhang Jue comes by and everyone forgets about this, great! But that happens independently of whatever we do here. I'd rather try to save Jing's beloved than just sit down and hope that maybe something good will happen so that we don't have to get off our ass.

    If they realize that holding the hostage is useless then there's no need for it, and Jing cares about the hostage very much. Stalling for time in a situation this volatile with his love in the balance is pretty shitty when he can take active steps to talk them out of this.
     
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  21. Tigranes Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Tigranes
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    Shit, I meant Neville makes sense, vote A.
     
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  22. Baltika9 Arcane

    Baltika9
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    Not quite. Sure, we capture the girls and become the center of attention. Then the masters, Amesha Spentas and the Ahura Mazda arrive and we are in deep, deep shit.
    Personally, I think he just gives zero fucks.
    Shagguan has an extremely orthodox reputation, though, and I can say the same about calling C "cowardly."
    She is at swordpoint between two parties that couldn't care less about her well-being, that's plenty dangerous enough. She is a useless hostage since the Orthodox Sects don't care about her at all, Wudu heiress and all, and I really can't see what A achieves when we go within talking distance of BJ, Nie w Wuxing and the Saint. So we troll around, bullshit them and be the clown. So what? Sure, C puts us in a bargaining position with the Cult and obviously they will ask for something in return, well, let's give it to them. Qilin's life is worth fighting with them. If the orthodoxes decide to rush us while we are negotiating for the hostage and not attacking anyone, they can have fun getting past Shagguan.
    Point stands: A relies on a miracle to pop up and help us save Qilin. What are we waiting for, exactly? No one knows!
    And that's a shitty thing to be gambling Qilin's life for.
     
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  23. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    Ok.

    Not when his hand is on her throat, I won't. He can strangle her just by reflex.
    Do not make sudden moves when dealing with a hostage situation. At least until they are paying close attention.

    Thank you for finally noticing what I was trying to say. Maybe.
    I don't care how the opportunity would present itself. It it requires us to attack them, so be it, if it requires nudging the Saint in the right direction, so be it.

    I am not going to discuss attacking them anymore, thank you.

    They can still make the hostage situation work against us. Why wouldn't they?

    And they are going to release her if you promise them to behave yourself? Or they will hold her hostage until you fulfill your end of the bargain? And why not after?
     
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  24. Kipeci Magister

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    Because Jing's a pugilist of rising power who for whatever reason has some measure of sympathy for them and it'd be stupid for them to antagonize Jing in that way and make him definitely hate them for the future? They'd have to devote resources to guarding Qilin if they're telling us to fight for them or she dies or whatever, that takes away from their own effort. He's not strong enough to go toe to toe with the other sect heads, so that's not worth keeping an Amesha guy away from a fight with a knife to Qilin.
     
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  25. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    If it makes him work for them, why would they care if he is happy or not? Do they strike you as caring types?
    I don't know how a measure of sympathy to their maidens translates to the Cult as a whole. To their Amesha Spenta? To their Lord? I don't think Jing cares too much about them.

    Depends on whether the effort is worth keeping Jing around.

    Five regular guys can keep an eye on her just as well.

    Anyway, we are getting carried away. I am saying that C does not warrant an immediate release either.
     
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