In Progress [LP CYOA] Tower

Rain ain't growing no beard anytime soon.

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Rain's an elf to boot.

 

The only non retarded options are hiding or reveal ourselves.
Hiding can succeed or not, consigning ourselves will just save the girls.
What’s worse, being a coward or a fedora?
Besides if we reveal ourselves why the knights should take our word that we are alone?
In the end E is the only real option.

 

There is a time for patience and a time for action. We haven't been caught yet (which is why 2B was the smart option last vote), but we will get caught soon unless we get a move on. What exactly do you find so bad about the odds of A working? Because I'm not hearing a good story why A would fail. I'm hearing a lot of red herrings and people arguing in circles by disingenuously forgetting counterpoints made to their positions.

That's why I'm done responding to lambchop in extensive detail: Because I know no one will be persuaded by that shit even if my points really are better than his. It's all getting bogged down in ridiculous bickering over minutiae, and he's arguing in bad faith anyway, though he doesn't realize it.

E means ignoring the risks by trying to live in your preferred world where the priest can't find us and no one else will give us away or reveal our presence either instead of accepting probabilities of it getting us fucked, and trying very hard to assert that the risks of escaping (when we know that A will get us out of the room with a head start on these guys and there are branching paths right down the corridor) are bigger than the risks of getting caught should we stay still. And yet with E, if one of the girls so much as breathes loudly, we will all get caught. If the priest has in fact noticed us just now, we will get caught. If any of the knights around here decide to explore this room, we will get caught. If Andrew and Scotty get questioned and mention us, the knights could look for us here, and we will still get caught. So the idea that sitting still is the safe option, is something I rather strongly disagree with here.

Even if you want to believe that the priest really wasn't detecting us as this update indicated (although I strongly suspect this is just reasoning backwards from the premise that E should be the right vote rather than reasoning forwards from the facts of the case), there are still strong odds that with E we get caught anyway by knights just having a thorough look around the room for loot (like we just found) and whatnot or one of the girls giving us away by making slightly too much noise or Andrew and Scotty needing to explain wtf they were doing here, mentioning us, and giving them more reason to look for any more kids here. So E is in fact highly risky. It seems to me that E voters operate off of a logic that involves downplaying every risk factor that comes with E and playing up every fear they can that A will not work ("the knights will outrun us" being a big such theory, despite the fact that we will have a headstart on them while there is a branching path up ahead, "we can't run out of the room in the chaos anyway" was another fear that treave just put to rest by explicitly pointing out it would be well within our abilities, and another fear being that the knights do not practice trigger discipline and will proceed to suddenly go guns blazing into the darkness to shoot at kids, despite the considerable dangers of collateral damage and friendly fire were they to do so), and that's not a sound basis for a vote.

Guys, please vote A. It's the smart option. I know that sometimes risk-taking in making a break for it feels like the foolish option, but it is foolish to think that staying still and remaining quiet is always the safer option. There are many times when the most dangerous thing to do would be to do nothing and all. And while E is still better than B or C, that doesn't make E safe.

The thing is: If we hit the light, we can escape. treave just confirmed that that is within our abilities. The bum leg theory has also been disproven. We can run fine for now and he was explicit in pointing out we would have a head start with A. The leg would only start to become a problem if we keep running for a long time, but we're just going to try to lose them in the side paths and there is a branching corridor up ahead, so that's not an issue.

I feel like the E voters are operating under the premise that all attempts to escape the room are doomed to failure. I really don't think that's the case. I think there is a working option to escape now, provided that we pick the right one, and that A is that option.

 

It can, but at times doing nothing is the right call.

Let's say you were playing a thief. Would rushing in every time be the right decision? Of course not. You need to hide and bide your time. Look for an opening and then strike. We're in a similar situation.

I think the problem is that you assume that we will be discovered in E, so to you it's just D except we look like a coward in the eyes of this nameless bunch of knight NPCs and Rasputin. But our detection isn't certain. Again, we were able to evade detection up until now and Andrew is causing a pretty big distraction.

Again, risk vs reward: in E we risk looking a bit more cowardly than in D, but the reward if successful is not getting caught and seeing Rain.

In D we get caught for certain, will likely be conscripted and our reward is looking like a really cool 10-year-old burn victim. If you're a knight looking for a perspective soldier or even if you're Rasputin (or whoever this monk is), there's a limit to how impressive a 10-year-old with a face like Freddy Krueger is going to be and I really doubt we risk looking much worse by trying to hide and not coming out, pulling our pants down, placing our ass in the air and shouting "take me instead, Rasputin! take me I'm a hero!".

D, while being badass for a 10 year old is pretty much asking to be conscripted. And unless you're Baltika with his apparent beard fetish and want that, there's plenty of time for badassery after we exceed the age of 11.

 

You do realize that with E all it takes is for the knights to decide to search the room for loot and astras like we just did and we will get caught anyway, right?

 

Um, no.

We can make it out of this room. That's the only thing garrunteed.

We'll have a headstart, but we're at risk of falling down and being captured.

 

A gradual increase means that there are very low odds of us falling unless we keep running for long distances. Our goal isn't to put as much distance between us and the knights but to go down enough side-paths that they've lost us and feel uncomfortable trying to chase us. That's doable. There's a branching path just at the end of the corridor. And as treave just hinted, there is a possibility that the knights will not pursue us if we make a break for it (they could have other priorities).

 

No, I doubt the knights will be searching every corner of the room. The designs of these ruins appear simple. Flat, smooth walls, not a lot of places to hide things. It's not like there are cupboards everywhere for them to search.

And besides, the monk wants to move to the 30th floor asap. Barring any further distractions like having to chase after more free conscripts for the Tsar's forces children, he will want to move on.

Long distances like the endless corridors of this ruin. Your entire plan hinges on the idea that the knights won't chase us. What if they do? What if we fall or one of these corridors is a dead end?

 

Your doubts mean nothing to me. These guys are familiar with going through ruins for astras. If they're already here, it is a very easy call for them to have a thorough look around the room and see if they can find anything useful, like we just did.

And A's plan hinges us on us being able to lose them by rushing down a few side corridors until they no longer know which way we went. Chasing is not a contest of pure speed. It's about making sure you've actually got the right path. All we need to do is give them the slip once we're out of the room.

 

If they're familiar with it and the astras are usually placed the way these were, they've already seen the empty pedestals and concluded the room has no astras.

Your argument is inconsistent and makes no sense btw:

On the one hand you say they will be too afraid of traps to chase after us. On the other, you say they are ruin experts that love pointlessly scouring every inch of every room they come across in a ruin, despite Rasputin here breathing down their necks about the 30th floor.

There are lights that follow us where ever we go. They will see them.

 

If you're looking for astras in ruins, you'd be in the habit of searching thoroughly.

The inconsistency only exists in your head, because you are trying to conflate separate problems together in an attempt to force a contradiction. Ruins divers are in the habit of scouring ruins for treasure, even if they're also cautious of traps. You know this. They also don't need to lay their hands all over the room to find us. They just need to walk around the room a bit and look up and down the nooks and crannies with their lantern to spot us.

So right now, you are trying hard to ignore the significant possibility of knights choosing to look through the room for astras and anything else they can find, while they're here. But this scenario is by no means an unreasonable concern.

The monk apparently doesn't mean anything to you. And the knights wanting to have a good look around the room for anything useful doesn't mean anything to you either. And the odds of the girls or Andrew and Scotty giving us away while we're trying to hide probably don't count for much either in your book. Your version of probability is an ostrich burying its head in the sand and claiming there's nothing there.

 

Except they aren't. They were looking for this orb.

Their next goal isn't to search every room here for more astras either. As Rasputin said: "all that remains is to see the gate open on the 30th floor" (paraphrasing).

Bro, if they're "ruins divers" (new class?), I doubt they will be afraid of traps. They'll probably know how to spot them easily.

Again, I doubt they'll take the time to do this. Andrew and Scotty came from outside the room. As far as they are concerned, the room is safe apart from the dumb kid with the sword.

If we stay hidden, Rasputin is likely to tell Scotty's dad to take him home, Andrew may or may nt be taken into custody for assaulting a knight (probably not with Scotty there defending him) and Rasputin WILL NOT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT WHO ELSE IS OR ISNT HERE BECAUSE HE WANTS TO SEE THE 30TH FLOOR.

Put yourself in the monk's position. Would you care if there are more brats here or not? He just bled blood all over an orb to see that gate open, man!

 

Your doubts mean nothing to me. Just because they were here for the orb doesn't mean they have to pass on an opportunity to find astras and loot in this room, like we just did. It's a real risk. Just because you doubt all the risks to your plan doesn't mean they aren't there.

And with A all we need to do is give them the slip in the side-paths of the ruins to lose them.

 

It's like being stuck in a conversation loop with a Bioware NPC.

I give up. We've both repeated our arguments at least once.

Sinc E is winning I give you full permission to wag your finger at me and tell me how the right decision here was clearly shooting a lantern at this exact chaotic moment.

Because what's the worst that could happen if people have guns drawn and the room suddenly goes dark in a building with metal walls? Can you say ricochet? Between that and Andrew's sword, it'd be a game a Clue up in here figuring out who killed whom with what.

 

It's kind of interesting watching how quickly your arguments founder when I refuse to take the bait and get dragged into yet another pointless digression bickering over minutiae by instead focusing on the main points at hand. And now you're suddenly upset that your arguing tactics are no longer working.

So here is where we're at: I have plausible basis for why E will get us caught, on multiple fronts. You have very little basis for why A will fail. Your only argument that your are left with is that basically the knights will chase us and keep chasing us until they've got us and throughout this process we will never manage to give them the slip, even though we have a head start on them and the ruins have branching side-paths. I guess you're also going for the argument that the knights do not practice proper trigger discipline (and no, they do not all have guns drawn) and will start to blindly fire their ricocheting bullets into an enclosed space with no regard for friendly fire or collateral damage, which strikes me as rather unlikely. So far, A's probability of success is distinctly higher.

 

No, it's that we've already had this exact argument. Scroll up:

To which I responded:

And now you are repeating yourself again:

How is my argument floundering when I simply refuse to repeat myself?


edit: in response to your edit. Again, round in circles. I get it, you think A will work out fine and see zero risks. Great. Glad you let us know.

 

And I already pointed out that it would be really easy for them to take their lantern and have a look around the room to see if there's anything left here, and spot us. It's not like they will trigger traps just by shining lights up and down the room. Having a look around while they're here is perfectly reasonable for them, and therefore a real risk for us.

Anyway, this is why I point out you're arguing in bad faith. You repeat that you presented your response, but immediately neglect the counter-points that were already raised to it, which is the precise reason I've grown exasperated of arguing details with you: I find myself repeating my arguments a lot and you continually memory holing them. I get bogged into arguments that go pretty much nowhere and even if I'm right it doesn't make a lick of difference to the way these arguments go down. In the end you basically discredit my position not by having a better point but because everyone else has ceased giving the slightest fuck about the way we end up bickering in circles.

 

Not sure why they would want to conscript some ten year old. I did backtrack to admit it’s not always better to do nothing, But I did give my reasoning that the girls have hardly been sneaky in this whole excursion and that now the dude they love and care about is engaged in a life or death situation- not the best for them remembering to maintain stealth, and we already have a hunch that they guy is developing an interest in where we are AND he’s been shown to detect children from behind a door. To me E is like a kid trying to hide under a bed after doing something wrong with legs dangling out from it.

 

It's a good point. As others have brought up, it isn't a certainty....unless the astras bond to you somehow when you touch them. Then they pretty much have to conscript anyone caught with one and the rumor about "getting to join a knight's order of your choosing" is just a happy face put on it.

It could aslo be done as a punishment for being the ghastly-faced little troll that led Nathaniel's dear Scotty into a dangerous ruin. "After all, isn't he some sort of vampire spawn? The village would be better off without him!"

Regardless, it's risk vs reward: we have no idea what happens if we get caught and impressing these knights by looking cool doesn't gain us as much as potentially staying hidden if being discovered really does turn out to be a bad thing.

 

A is probably the most dangerous option in the long run. Shooting out the light when there are guns drawn will give the knights a good reason to break a few skulls. If we get out, there'll be questions about the missing people, one of the girls will tell all etc. What a mess!

B and C are just wtf..
D is a level of cuckoldry that shouldn't even be possible
E is the most realistic option. If Andrew/Scotty get skewered, I doubt the knights will hang around for long. We'll also have a story to tell.

 

Yeah there are decent odds our cover is going to get blown really fast in E.

Lambchop has managed to reject all of this through his ability to doubt. In his view the priest has no powers, the kids must have made noise out the door, the knights will be profoundly uninterested in having a look around this special room, the girls will keep perfectly quiet and not give us away, the boys won't mention us if they get nabbed, and we will get to walk away when the knights are done grabbing them. Basically he's already committed to voting E, so he just doubts all evidence suggesting it may be a bad idea.

It's a pretty silly thing.

Pretty much. Sadly, convincing yourself that your plan to hide under a bed is foolproof doesn't make it so.

 

There's still no evidence that the knights have their guns drawn, you know. There is only one knight so far who drew a gun, and Nathaniel already grabbed his gun-arm to keep him from shooting. I know exaggerating details is a popular pastime when making an argument, but let's stick to the facts here. Besides, the knights should know trigger discipline and avoid firing blindly into the darkness (risking considerable friendly fire and collateral damage) just to get a few kids. B and C are the options that will give the knights a good reason to break a few skulls, not A.

E is the most failure-prone option of the two. If one of the girls panics, does something, or so much as breathes loudly, we will all get caught. If the priest has in fact noticed us just now as MC suspects, we will get caught. If any of the knights around here decide to have a look around this room, we will get caught. If Andrew and Scotty get questioned and mention us, the knights could look for us, and we will still get caught. So E is actually pretty risky.

Meanwhile in A we are sure to escape the room and will have a head start on the knights and there is a branching path right down the corridor for us to start losing them in side-paths. And since we do not want to lose Rain, we should really try to escape these bad guys.

 

Untrue. I just see too many problems with A (our leg should we need to run for a long time per treave's response and the idea that someone might get hurt in the chaos from our turning out the lights in an already violent situation with guns drawn) and no real gain from D other than "looking badass". We also don't really know the intention of these men, so attacking them in any way would seem an overreaction until we know more.

I'm a known flopper, so your accusations that I am just stubbornly stuck on E won't convince many people.

If you could have given me a convincing argument for how we could almost certainly escape unharmed in A over the past few pages, I would pick it. Instead, you're assuming I'm arguing in bad faith and dismissing my doubts offhand by repeatedly saying "your doubts don't concern me". Sorry, but where I come from that doesn't make for a convincing argument.

To paraphrase your other points as you have mine, your argument amounts to: "nothing will go wrong when we turn out the lights on these super disciplined knights that just pulled a gun on a child! we can run a marathon on our bum leg and even if we can't, the expert ruin diver knights will be too afraid of ruin traps to chase a few children even if a noble demands that the find his son! the monk can see us already with his magic powers that I am certain exist because he knew someone was outside a door! lambchop just won't listen to reason!"

 

Okay, you want to the A scenario for success, that's reasonable:

1. Shooting the lantern is an easy target, we're sure to make that shot.
2. Throwing the knights into disarray would make it easier for us to sneak out, and we will succeed on that escape. Treave also confirmed we would make it out with a head start.
   
3. There is a branching path right down the corridor, from which point we can begin losing the knights in the labyrinthine side paths of the ruins.

It's as easy that. Treave has already confirmed that we can run for now, and that our risks of falling will gradually rise the more keep running. So our goal as soon as we're out the door should be to take winding side paths over straight paths to make them lose us, and we should be in the clear.

The knights shouldn't fire if we vote A because they should know basic trigger discipline and shooting blindly into the darkness carries a high risk of friendly fire and collateral damage. I just don't think they want kids dead that badly. There is only one knight who drew a gun, and Nathaniel has already grabbed a hold of his gun-arm to keep him from shooting. So the odds of blind firing, are quite low. I've mentioned this a number of times before, yet it has slipped your mind yet again. Curious. Curious. And I made it clear our goal is to lose them in the side paths, not to out-run them (something you also seem to have persistent difficulty remembering, no matter how many times I mention it).

So, are you flopping? I'd be impressed if you did.

 

You just made the same points you did over the past few pages.

No one is arguing that it isn't. (Though really, I doubt I could do it.)

No, it means that they are in disarray. It isn't them chasing us down a corridor.

The hallways have magic lights that will follow us. If they want to know where we went, they just need to go down the corridor that has a light.

I have said all this before as you have your points. I need to go to sleep. Feel free to do another victory dance about how my arguments are floundering because I won't stay here going round in circles with you though.