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MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries by Piranha Games - coming December 10th

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by LESS T_T, Dec 4, 2016.

  1. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
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    An example problem is that there is a built-in mathematical flaw in Tonnage. Namely, that due to the way weight of certain parts scales, there are objectively straight-up better tonnages compared to all others. Tonnage honestly doesn't work at all as a system for customization because of how inherently broken it is even before you account for things like TC+Pulse head sniping or Triple-Strength or similar parts that can cause things to get wacky (which pretty much explains why you rarely see people even entertaining the idea of even allowing custom 'mechs in the tabletop).
     
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  2. BV is a reasonably decent check on munchkinism in this vein, though certainly not a perfect solution. One of my bigger gripes is that a tiny 20 ton Locust with standard structure, standard armor and a standard engine ends up with the same number of available crit slots as, say, a relatively TOWERING 65 ton JagerMech with the same technologies. Also, a single half-ton (lol) .50 caliber MG takes up the same critspace as a single 6-ton ~40mm (rough estimate) AC/2.

    (Another thing somewhat unrelated - I kind of sort of get minimum ranges on certain missile weapons systems, but on the smaller-bore ACs? That makes no sense. I don't know of any real-life autocannon or rough equivalent thereof that fires shells with a delayed fuze or arming distance. I also don't know of any real-life autocannon or equivalent that would have serious issues targeting something inside of a few hundred meters.)
     
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  3. Chippy Augur

    Chippy
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    Anyone know if the implemented salvaging as it was in Mechwarrior 3? I may actually buy the game at release if they have.
     
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  4. MadMaxHellfire Arcane

    MadMaxHellfire
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    i actually liked and still like a lot how mw4 changed the mechlab, it gives purpose and personality to every mech, which normally would all turn into omnimechs. sometimes too much freedom is damaging.
     
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  5. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

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    Yea, that's sort of why Tonnage shouldn't really be used as a foundation mechanic in vidya when it was always a fairly sloppily made framework that non-optimized stock 'mechs could be put in. Tonnage really ought to be replaced by a better mechanic that provides various 'mechs more unique qualities and better ways to be customized, while also being intuitive and unburdened.


    Like, as an example of a better-designed system, in Armored Core there are basically two direct factors on the loadout of a design (= just how much stuff you can fit in) that must be stayed within for the design to be legal and useable:

    1) Loading Capacity, which is fairly simply just the maximum total amount of Weight that the chosen Leg Unit can support. Of important here besides the limiting factor is that the total Weight of any design influences a myriad number of other details, whether the ability to absorb recoil or impact without being stunned, or how much effect a Booster's thrust power has in moving the mecha or how fast it can turn. Very importantly, this means that you potentially benefit from being UNDER the maximum load, unlike Tonnage which is always exactly to the cap.

    2) Generator Output, which limits what you can mount on a mecha based on how much the total energy drain of the parts used is (and all parts have Energy Drain). Where this steps in is that Generator parts have several important qualities in determining what you are building, most obvious example being that it's one of the heaviest parts. Similarly to above, it's also not a system where you only benefit from being precisely at capacity, since being lower than maximum also improves the speed at which the Generator recharges your energy reserves, which is crucial for mobility.

    There's additional factors, but this already outlines a problem Tonnage (and Criticals, really, but I think Tonnage is much more fundamental to the problem than Criticals, but Criticals are crap too) has: Tonnage only allows for "every part of the buffalo" design. Tonnage is a factor that's set in stone, and more of a target point rather than a dynamic element of your design. It only scales around itself and does not really interact with any other aspect of a 'mech's design. It's kind of an endemic problem in a lot of the tabletop game, where because the mechanic was never really intended for a simulation or single player experience, the mathematics are ultimately determined by target points rather than anything else. Heat is another example of this, where it's basically nothing more than arithmetic limiter on your actions; simple and works for a tabletop strategy game, but ultimately has never translated all that well to real-time vidya (probably why MechCommander just ignored it existed) because it's designed for a very specific purpose in a very specific context (tabletop, and not needing calculators to keep track of).
     
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  6. MechCommander didn't really IGNORE it completely so much as it decided that it was expedient to hide it behind a curtain (which it pretty much was because the heat system is not particularly intuitive on the whole). Basically when you dropped a PPC into a mech in MC it also automatically allocated the extra heatsinks required to run the weapon properly as kind of a bundle deal, IIRC.
     
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  7. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
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    Basically yeah IIRC, though I don't remember if the numbers were exact, relatively around there, or just what they balanced them around. But I do recall that they changed weapon balance around in other ways as well, or as it should probably be called The Medium Laser Question (obv ML isn't the only one of these, or even among the truly horrifyingly balance-mangling, but it's probably the first that people go "wait a fucking minute" when they start looking at things in the basic boxset).

    The other problem with Heat is really just that there's not an easy real way to translate it to a real time environment. Old Armored Core games used to have a heat mechanic as well, but ultimately they ditched it in 4 because it didn't really add anything to gameplay.
     
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  8. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
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    Umm... That is the BTech rules. The maximum armour points for a 'mech (vehicles have different rules) for any part is twice your internal structure (except the head, which is triple) and your internal structure is dictated by your tonnage. There is no way around that. Even the later Maximum Tech rules with all kinds of funky new armour (Hardened, I am looking at you) doesn't break that rule. Instead, they play around with damaged received.

    In PnP, ES is always better than FF. You should never have FF unless you can afford both in terms of crits (Clan Lights/Mediums, usually).

    Std vs XL engine is a matter of taste and intent. Clanners use them because they don't design their 'mechs with long term survivability in mind. They only have to win the current one-vs-one fight. IS designers have to worry about long campaigns and massed battle, and their inferior XL engines make it a serious weigh-up. A long-range gunner like the Devastator or the Longbow, for example, would benefit from a XL engine. Brawlers should stay away from them, especially since close-range combat has a much higher chance of an enemy getting around you and hitting you from the rear, whacking the thinnest armour on any 'mech: the rear side torso armour. 'Mechs like the Jenner, which rely more on speed than armour to protect itself (the Jenner has the same armour level as a Locust), would also benefit from a XL engine.

    Also, in MW4 - Mercs, on the highest difficulty level, you can short-change yourself on leg and arm armour. 90% of the enemy hits will be the CT with 9.99% of the the remaining hits being the side torsos. You can save significant weight using that technique.
     
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  9. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
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    Actually, the IS medium laser is the one that doesn't conform to that trend in MechCommander. All other energy weapons do. The reason why IS PPC is 12 tons in the game is because 7t weapon + 5t DHS. Clan ERPPC is 13.5 tons because 6t weapon + 7.5t DHS. IS Large Lasers are 5t + 4t DHS making it 9t as in the game. Clan Large Pulse Laser = 6t weapon + 5t DHS = 11t, which is as is in game. Clan ER Medium Laser is 1t + 2.5t = 3.5t as in the game. IS medium laser, however, is supposed to be 1t + 1.5t DHS, but is actually 4t in the game.

    If you want a game that does heat pretty well in a RT environment, take a look at Cyber Empires. And if you do play the game, keep the Mars away from lava and Dragons...!
     
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  10. Grotesque ±¼ Patron

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    Is this fuckin game going to make an appearance at E3?
     
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  11. Grotesque ±¼ Patron

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  12. Trans-Financial-Man Savant

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    Looks like the game is going to be making an appearance on the Epic Store at least if the FAQ removing all mention of Steam is any indication.
     
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  13. Abu Antar Tweet, tweet Patron

    Abu Antar
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    This is now Epic Games Store exclusive.

    Here's a FAQ about exclusivity, refunds and more:
    https://mw5mercs.com/faq#question-3-0
     
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  14. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

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    Well that's their loss at least for a year, I was at minimum considering getting it because it's been an entire console generation since the previous Armored Core game, DAEMON X MACHINA is Switch exclusive, Project Nimbus just looks too jank for me to risk it, so my body has been seeking conflict for a good while now.

    But all of China will not know shit about me!
     
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  15. GhopTheConqueror Learned

    GhopTheConqueror
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    Ok, I've been pretty ignorant about the whole Epic Games Store controversy. Can someone give me a quick rundown of what the problems with the store are?
     
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  16. Abu Antar Tweet, tweet Patron

    Abu Antar
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    They buy exclusive games. Exclusive games on PC. It's like console wars but instead, it's storefront wars. People wouldn't care if there were games on the store that were also available everywhere else.

    I don't put all the blame on Epic, though. Not every developer have accepted money hats.
     
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  17. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

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    Also vague concerns due to Epic's links to a company as shady as Tencent, and Tencent's links to Chinese government. There were some concerns the launcher had Chinese spyware in it, but apparently it's just a really shit launcher.
     
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  18. Trans-Financial-Man Savant

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    The biggest problem is that the store is simply lacking features that Steam has. Workshop support, user security, account sharing, streaming to other devices, friends lists, user created guides,. The biggest issue is simple though. It's more DRM. It's another password you have to remember. The exclusivity is yet another way to snatch choice away from the consumer. It's a forced monopoly. A way to force you away from the better alternative. Steam never did this. They distributed HL2 on their platform because it was their game. But never once made a deal with publishers for steam exclusivity. I fucking hate Steam and all digital distribution platforms that don't give you an offline DRM free copy of the shit you paid for. But I would rather pick Steam over Epic because it's the better experience. Ideally I'd pick GoG if a copy of a game was offered on there and I do when they are offered over Steam every single time.

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
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    Not really a forced monopoly, just what unrestricted capitalism will inevitably do.
     
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  20. Trans-Financial-Man Savant

    Trans-Financial-Man
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    When one group controls all distribution of a product. That is a monopoly. You will not be able to buy MW5 on anything else. Steam has an accidental monopoly that they willingly give away when they can. Whilst Epic is forcing a Monopoly through exclusives.
     
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  21. Grotesque ±¼ Patron

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    That s all pampering shits for soyboys from the decadent west that forgot that the game should reign supreme and call themselves gamers when they confuse steam with a social network.
    If a game is stellar, I would not give a fuck which launcher I use to execute it. AND I still have 2 neurons left to remember a password.
    The problem is there are too few of those games but the techologically pampered schmucks are not up in arms about that.

    If I were a dev, the last thing I would do is to give the thugs at steam 30%


    They made hl2 steam exclusive because it was their game? Lol so that means witcher series and cyberpunk 77 should be gog exclusive?


    Also lol at the accidental monoly /are you for real?
     
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  22. Black Arcane

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  23. Grotesque ±¼ Patron

    Grotesque
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    How STEAM made me a better person /gamer so I can t fathom life without it:
    • Cloud saves .. I use it because I am a retard, didnt leardned my lesson with games that bugged out and lost my saves and who has time to finish all these games anyway?
    • User profile.. because my ego demands it. Look at me ... I am radiant, witness me
    • User reviews.. my opinion is important. That is what capitalism tells me everyday and how else would I get my revenge upon that dev for not supporting the SJW LGBTQ agenda?
    • Forums.. the place where devs announce their day one patch every week for a year until when enhanced edition comes out and unpayed betatesters exchange frustration
    • M0d distribution .. thanks to steam, "mods will fix it" is taken to a whole another level and lazy devs have a new mantra. Also I like to play with at lest 80 mods installed and steam is supporting my fetish
    • Friends list and chat ... because instead of playing games, I like to verbally abuse, exchance weather forcasts and latest news in porn industry
    • Groups .. because same great minds should stick together and exchange fapping recipies
    • Item trading... because that badge and shitty background doesn t come cheap and I need to feel rewarded somehow for finishing that game with 20 mil units sold and 5% completion rate
    • Library sorting ... because I need tools to manipulate my 768 game library and because I am devoided of clarity in my life that is shit and try to fill the void with games
    • Account sharing ... because my frat type brother and my skanky sister heard is trendy to be a gaymer and want to give it a go without losig their drug money. Also my soccer mom wants to leave farmville and enter the big league
    • Streaming to other devices ... because the hooker I keep locked in the basement should witness how I pwn n00bs live on steam stream. Maybe finally she ll give it to me
    • Broadcasting... because I found a niche where if I show my tits, money galore and I have also a professional gamer status. 2 in 1
    • Screenshot capture... the quickest way to capture the curses of butthurted cretins and the pleas of griefed noobs.
    • User created guides ... so what if my wife left me? I FINALLY completed this guide how to enter area 51 to hunt that last pokemon and how to perfectally romance it to be allowed to buttfuck it
    • Wishlist .... the perfect way to support devs by not buying their game and never will but making them think they ll be rich
     
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  24. Black Arcane

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  25. karoliner Erudite

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    This keeps getting delayed i really doubt it will turn out good.
     
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