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Game News Microsoft E3 2018 Press Conference: Cyberpunk 2077 Re-Announced

Tito Anic

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http://www.ign.com/articles/2018/06...-like-the-witcher-but-it-does-look-incredible

CYBERPUNK 2077 / 12 JUN 2018
E3 2018: CYBERPUNK 2077 DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THE WITCHER, BUT IT DOES LOOK INCREDIBLE
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We've seen a live gameplay demo of Cyberpunk 2077, and walked away incredibly impressed.
BY TOM MARKS Six Years after its first reveal, I have seen a live demo of Cyberpunk 2077,


and it looks like everything I was hoping it would be. A beautiful and sprawling RPG set in an alternate future that sits somewhere between Dredd, Blade Runner, and The Fifth Element.


The biggest surprise is that the gameplay is almost entirely first-person. With a helluva lot of guns to fire and damage values popping up as your bullets hit enemies, the combat plays out more like Borderlands or Deus Ex than it does The Witcher 3. There are tons of abilities to use during combat, including bullet ricocheting and a bullet time slow down that came in handy quite a bit during the demo I saw.

The shooting looks solid as well, though it’s always hard to tell without going hands on. Shotguns, pistols, and an enemy-seeking rifle all had kick and feedback to them that I maybe wasn’t expecting from the studio behind The Witcher. It seems slower than something like Borderlands, but definitely faster than Deus Ex, and using abilities in conjunction with your guns clearly seemed important.

And while we saw a bit of stealth, and I’m sure using the Mantis arm blades and a late game wall run ability will help facilitate that, our demo was mostly guns-blazing. One cool moment was when the player took out an enemy stealthily, then jacked directly into him to get a schematic of the base they were fighting through, hacking various systems to cause havoc.

Outside of the heat of battle, however, Cyberpunk’s RPG core shines bright and clear. You take quests, talk to NPCs with branching dialogue options, and explore an open world only limited by your “Street Cred” value -- which can be increased by doing jobs, or even by putting on sweet looking cloths, like a leather jacket that had a 5% increase to Street Cred in addition to other stats.

You play as a mercenary cyberpunk named V, a bespoke character that you can customize to be male or female and deck out with tats, electronics, and all sorts of other outfits befitting the game’s name. You also assign points to the same six stats from the original Cyberpunk 2020 tabletop game: Strength, Constitution, Intelligence, Reflexes, Tech, and (my favorite) Cool.

But Cyberpunk also pulls away from other typical RPG molds. Instead of picking a class archetype, you get to customize and specialize as you see fit during the game, making your own class of sorts. You get to customize V’s backstory as well, and instead of more typical options you might expect, there are questions like picking your “Childhood Hero.”

But while your character is your own, this is clearly as much of an open-world RPG as The Witcher 3. We saw V, a women in the demo I watched, walking around the dense and winding Night City to talk to allies, get quests from shady criminal sources, and upgrade her abilities and body parts.

Player choice seems incredibly important to Cyberpunk

At one point she went to her Ripperdoc to install an optical scanner and a hand upgrade called Subdermal Grip. The increased grip strength upped the damage of her guns, as well as brought up a previously-missing ammo counter. The eye (which you see installed in her head from its perspective and is one of the all-time creepiest and coolest pieces of equipement I’ve seen in a game) gives V the ability to zoom and scan enemies and vehicles.

That scanning is important, because there appear to be four different types of damage in Cyberpunk 2077: Physical, Thermal, EMP, and Chemical. Scanning shows you what damage the enemy uses, as well as what they are weak or strong against.

There were also equipement and chip slots, and one chip we saw towards the end of the demo gave V a robot spider about the size of a dog that would follow and fight for her. It rocked. Player choice seems incredibly important to Cyberpunk, and I feel like we only scratched the surface of its customization options

Yes, you can drive in this game.

And did I mention vehicles? Because, yes, you can drive in this game. It’s not totally clear how big Night City is, but it’s streets were at least sprawling enough to hop in what looked like a futuristic Lambo and get in a mobile gun fight. The AI companion took the wheel as V leaned out the window and shot people out of a van in front of them. It was tense, though the map doesn’t look nearly as open or free for driving like it is in GTA 5 from what I saw.

That said, Night City seems to have a lot of depth and height to it if you’re walking around. It’s got huge sky-rises full of things to do, sodas to buy (which can be used later like most RPG food), and V used elevators to get between floors. Like I said, it comes out as a dense city with lots of side paths to explore.

And Cyberpunk has more AI civilians just bustling around on ground level than I’ve seen in most games. Walking around in first person made the city streets feel alive with action, not like a game. It was truly remarkable.

Cyberpunk 2077’s writing and voice acting seemed superb as well from what I could tell. It was clever and well-written -- at one point a dialogue choice had V chastise her Ripperdoc for narrating what he was doing, poking fun at another game trope.

The dialogue options also seemed like they had real weight to them. At one point, a deal gone south made V end up getting hacked by her enemy, a line plugged into her that acting as a digital lie detector. The player could lie still, but when she said that she didn’t have back-up (she did) it caused them to search for her partner. All the while, the option to just grab the gun and start a fight persisted, but the player was able to talk their way through without conflict.

Those dialogue options don’t feel as stationary as The Witcher 3, either. Occasionally more casual dialogue choices would pop up while walking around with V’s NPC partner. That, coupled with the first-person camera, makes Cyberpunk 2077 seems significantly more immersive than having more structured conversations as Geralt.

Having finally seen Cyberpunk 2077 in action, I’m more excited for it than ever.

CD Projekt also explicitly called Cyberpunk 2077 "a mature experience intended for mature audiences" and that players would "not only have a chance to engage with the game world but also with its people.” They happened to say that right after V carried a naked women she had rescued for a job out of a building, and during a cutscene where we then see V waking up in the morning in nothing but her underwear. You can read between the lines for yourself, but it sounds like… let’s call it “romance” options will be in Cyberpunk too.

A handful of cutscenes were the only times Cyperpunk left first-person -- apart from driving which gives you the option to swap, though first-person has a sweet MPH UI on your windshield. It’s nice to know that you’ll be able to see your custom V during the game.

Cyberpunk 2077 is definitely not just “Cyberpunk Witcher,” it’s something a whole lot more than that. The core of what I loved about The Witcher is clearly there, but in a wild and exciting new shell that stands as something wholly its own. Questions about how free its open world feels, the quality of it stories, and if the guns are actually good to shoot when they are in our own hands persists, but having finally seen Cyberpunk 2077 in action, I’m more excited for it than ever.
 

Absinthe

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Looks like it's a popamole game.

:popamole:

Wow, sure is edgy in here.

Glad to know that cyberpunk is now all about darkness and rain. Since, all the other things our valiant CP genre definer mentioned do exist in the trailer. The 80s and 90s aesthetics are definitely not cyberpunk at all, no sir. They didn't exist in Shadowrun nor Cyberpunk nor Blade Runner nor Johnny Mnemonic nor Robocop nor Total Recall.

We had cybernetic bodyparts, claustrophobic urban crawl, mega-corporations, industrial espionage over the 'Net, massive violence, poverty, gangs, prostitution and gambling, riots against the establishment, two different dudes getting their brains fried, - but oh no, the sun is shining so it's all shit.
I'll assume you're talking about me since I can't find anyone else offering a description of cyberpunk, but looking over your post, you make cyberpunk sound like a damn fashion statement, and yet you call me edgy. As I said before, calling something cyberpunk just because it has cybertech and punks does a severe discredit to the genre. There's a more pensive and introspective quality to cyberpunk while this looks more like mindless power fantasy action fare. You also claim that the trailer features everything I mentioned in my description of cyberpunk, and I obviously disagree, so by all means feel free to prove your case instead of just throwing out a generalized claim.

So many words on such stupid argument. Man, if you get this bent out of shape whenever someone rates your post negatively, you really gotta have an exhausting life.
Kid, you are really clinging to that whole "you must be butthurt" thing like a drowning man to a piece of driftwood. :lol: Now, I seem to recall I already pointed out why you're off the mark, but I guess it was too hard for you to acknowledge or engage that so you opted to ignore that and just repeated yourself instead. You know, that's how idiots argue. They'll pretend you never answered what they claimed and just repeat already debunked statements like that's any way to advance a point. Tsk, tsk. You know, this continual inability of yours to acknowledge or engage logic contrary to your own assertions is a rather persistent character defect on your part.

I really don't mind nor care that you think this trailer "isn't cyberpunk". I disagree with it, which is why I rated you the way I did,
Of course. That's why you claimed "Gibson is so salty they are making Pondsmith's stuff and not his," spent a great deal of time and effort lashing out, complained about how you were too offended to muster up a rational response, and continually marked your disagreement not with the "disagree" rating as you claim to have meant or even the shit/retarded/wtf-am-i-reading ratings but butthurt. Why I can just feel the emotional equilibrium in your actions. :lol: Seriously, how fucking stupid do you have to be to try to reinvent your past behavior when it's all out there for everyone plain to see? Son, one day, should you grow up, you'll understand that part of maturity is learning to be accountable and take responsibility for your own actions and behavior. How the fuck you got this far in life like this I'll never know, but maybe stop being being such an emotional coward who likes to call out others but runs away the moment he gets called out on his own shit. It's a fucking argument about a computer game on an internet forum for fuck's sake. How is it so hard for you to be honest here? Are you just a pathological liar who just has to spin pointless white lies and bullshit once he gets uncomfortable?

I disagree with Gibson and posted Mike Pondsmith's post because I found it cool that he posts on reddit and I happen to agree with him. That's all. To me, the trailer, even though choosing mostly daytime, shows pretty much exactly what I expected to see from the game based on this particular PNP game.
Feel free to elaborate because so far this still isn't a reasoned opinion.

It is ok for people to have differing opinions on stuff.
A rather milquetoast followup on your original claim that the complainers are just morons now that you've been called out on your shit, I notice. And while it is fine for people to have differing opinions, that does not mean all opinions are equal. For instance, my opinion is worth more than yours. This is not just because I am smarter than you or because I have the "right" opinion, but because I provided an explanation and reasoning for my opinion whereas you have extremely consistently failed to provide reasoning for yours. You seem to be a bit slow here so I'll spell it out for you. The greater issue (from the start, in fact - go look through my posts if you don't believe me) isn't that you disagreed with me. It's that you failed to post an intelligent, reasoned opinion and that you talked smack about everyone who disagreed with you, went for a shitting contest, then cried about the temperature once someone held your feet to the fire. And now you want to pretend you're too good for the argument or shit. Get real, kid. We've already seen the content of your character. If anything your problem is that you seem to be too stupid and immature to handle an intelligent conversation. You chose to go down this road, chose to purely engage in a shitting contest (while whining about disrespect too, lmfao) even as I told you you should just post an intelligent contribution or fuck off, and then you got destroyed. I guess we can add "inability to take good advice" to your list of character failures.
 
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GarfunkeL

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It wasn't actually just you, you were just the edgiest.

I'll assume you're talking about me since I can't find anyone else offering a description of cyberpunk, but looking over your post, you make cyberpunk sound like a damn fashion statement, and yet you call me edgy. As I said before, calling something cyberpunk just because it has cybertech and punks does a severe discredit to the genre. There's a more pensive and introspective quality to cyberpunk while this looks more like mindless power fantasy action fare. You also claim that the trailer features everything I mentioned in my description of cyberpunk, and I obviously disagree, so by all means feel free to prove your case instead of making a generalized claim.
Waah waah waah. Loads of hyperbolic and generic bullshit dressed up to act as an argument. You take a 90 second trailer and make gigantic leaps of "logic" to end up with conclusions like "mindless power fantasy action fare".

But sure, since we're all autistic retards here, let's go over your earlier stuff:
"Calling what we've seen cyberpunk just because it has cybertech and punks is like calling something science fiction just because it has spaceships and lasers."
A horse is a horse. That's such a non-argument in the first place. You're obsessed about the lack of film noir, yet the basic premise of cyberpunk, is not sufficient.

"Cyberpunk is often about things like ressentiment, dehumanization, cynicism, rage against the machine, living under the yoke of authoritarians and scrounging out your own freedom mainly by virtue of rejecting the rules while being an ignored and invisible population, and living in a world where you frequently have to do what it takes to get ahead or even just protect your own slice of life"

Right, so let's have a look:
1. Ressentiment - we have loads of examples, starting with the punk couple about to mug the corporate wageslave in the subway.
2. Dehumanization - Holographic models on a virtual runway, a woman without a jaw/mouth doing her makeup, adverts for cybernetics and body sculpting.
3. Cynicism - dude orchestrating the assassination of a rival so that he can observe it from his seat on the space plane. Or the two prostitutes mugging a john while their colleagues are hawking another one few meters away. Or Trauma Team shooting down an entire building floor regardless of casualties to evac their customer.
4. Rage against the machine - there's a news headline of a body count in anti-corporate protest and later a video clip of the same/another protest happening.
5. Living under the yoke of authoritarians - corp interrogation, hillbilly couple living in a literal shack, poverty stricken losers under the shadow of corporate skyscrapers, so many more examples.
6. Scrounging out your own freedom and yadda yadda - hacker frying the brain of another corp executive, guy stealing another guy's cyber eye, dude getting busted at a street foodie stand, two punks fail robbing a convenience store.

So either you didn't watch the trailer at all or, more likely, you saw it once, paid little attention and then came here to frothe like a maniacal, pretentious twat.

Now, if you want to hate on the game, feel fucking free to do so, but at least be intellectually honest about it.
 
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DeepOcean

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via reddit:

  • CD Projekt describes the game as a "first-person RPG."
  • Gameplay is in first a first-person perspective, but switched to third-person during a cutscene.
  • You play a character named V (as in the letter).V can be a man or a woman.
  • The game features first-person driving.While driving, the U.I. appears diegetically on the windshield.
  • Damage numbers pop up during combat.
  • CD Projekt also described Cyberpunk as a "mature experience intended for mature audiences."
  • Like Witcher, you take missions from NPCs and have dialogue options in conversations.
  • It's an open world that you open up more with "street cred." For example, a specific jacket might raise it by 5%, allowing you access to new places.
  • Game is FPS perspective
  • FPS perspective made to feel more personal
  • RPG with Shooter Elements not a Shooter with RPG elements
  • Multiple different progression systems (Skills, Perks, etc.)
  • V, protagonist - urban merc/hired gun.
  • Voiced protagonist, male and female voices
  • Full character creation system (Gender, Looks, Lifepath/Backstory)
  • You DO NOT pick classes in the beginning, class system is fluid based on choices
  • Dystopian Cyberpunk future shown in sunlight on purpose. Full Day/Night Cycle. Noir themes bleed through environment and aesthetic
  • Characters from Cyberpunk 2020 lore will appear
  • Netrunner Techie and Solo are main focused classes
  • You can combine classes
  • Optional classes exist (like Rockerboy and Corporate) and you can pull perks from them to add into your own custom class
  • Story and quest system from Witcher 3 is implemented into Cyberpunk similarly.
  • Choice and consequence is HUGE. Emphasized that the game is an RPG first and foremost
  • Story is personalized by player choice.
  • Combat - Ranged combat and Melee combat. Learned lessons from Witcher 3. FPS Melee combat.
  • Weapons - 3 branches - Power Weapons (heavy hitting/stagger), Tech Weapons (penetrating through cover), Smart Weapons (tracking/following)
  • Vehicles - Motorcycles, Cars, hinted at flying cars.
  • V is a fully voiced character. Both Male and Female completely voiced.
  • V's personality is shaped by player. Backstory and interactions shape V's personality.
  • Cyberpunk is a dark dystopia in the same vein as Witcher 3 being Dark Fantasy
  • Details of the world - everything has a purpose. World design was a huge focus in setting the tone.
  • Night City - in between SF and LA (fictional city). Inspired by both cities.
  • 6 unique districts in the city. Each area has its own feel on top of the base Noir feel
  • Exploration is encouraged.
  • Witcher was horizontally huge, Cyberpunk is vertically huge.
  • You can enter buildings, Mega Buildings exist as well with multiple floors and multiple areas to explore within a single building.
  • No level scaling. 2 forms of XP - Core XP - Main Missions and Street Cred - Side missions
  • Higher Street Cred opens new exclusive vendors and fixers (new jobs)
Also - the amount of people whining it's not a cyberpunk-themed Witcher reskin is hilarious.
Sounds like open world Deus Ex Human Revolution, it would be pretty cool to play it if it is this way. My fear was that would be a shallow action game like GTA with lots of flashy stupid shit and awful extreme shallow gameplay.
 

Rinslin Merwind

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Hoaxmetal Sorry that my opinion offended you, I didn't wanted to harm such sensitive soul like yours. Sadly, seems too many damage already done and nothing can heal poor soul hiding his pain behind emojis. If only you can properly write your opinion in words, but sadly you forever bound by your love to social media and only emojis can show your attitude.

Don't mind me guys, seems shy guy with hidden profile wants to talk to me, but too much introvert to using words and not retarded emoji
 

Absinthe

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It wasn't actually just you, you were just the edgiest. Waah waah waah. Loads of hyperbolic and generic bullshit dressed up to act as an argument. You take a 90 second trailer and I make gigantic leaps of "logic" to end up with conclusions like "mindless power fantasy action fare".
Dude, get over yourself. I just claimed it's not cyberpunk and you're flipping out here.

But sure, since we're all autistic retards here, let's go over your earlier stuff:
"Calling what we've seen cyberpunk just because it has cybertech and punks is like calling something science fiction just because it has spaceships and lasers."
A horse is a horse. That's such a non-argument in the first place. You're obsessed about the lack of film noir, yet the basic premise of cyberpunk, is not sufficient.
A tautological statement is indeed a non-argument on your part. The basic premise of cyberpunk exists on a more intellectual level to me. If you want to dislike or disagree, go right the fuck ahead, but clearly your definition of the genre is not the same as mine and what you value in the genre is not the same as I do.

"Cyberpunk is often about things like ressentiment, dehumanization, cynicism, rage against the machine, living under the yoke of authoritarians and scrounging out your own freedom mainly by virtue of rejecting the rules while being an ignored and invisible population, and living in a world where you frequently have to do what it takes to get ahead or even just protect your own slice of life"

Right, so let's have a look:
Great.

1. Ressentiment - we have loads of examples, starting with the punk couple about to mug the corporate wageslave in the subway.
That ain't ressentiment. Ressentiment would be the wageslave working his ass off trying to achieve bigger and better things only to never be valued for his work, get laid off, and lose all his health benefits and whatever else because all his effort never meant shit to them, none of his higher ups were ever going to care, and society as a whole doesn't care. He got fucked because none of his efforts and ambitions ever meant shit and it was a futile effort from the outset and he should've known better than think he was going to amount to something because society was never going to give him a chance.

2. Dehumanization - Holographic models on a virtual runway, a woman without a jaw/mouth doing her makeup, adverts for cybernetics and body sculpting.
That's not dehumanization dude, except in the feminist OBJECTIFICATION!111 sense. Dehumanization isn't about sexualization, cosmetics, or replacing body parts. It's about not being treated as an actual human being in the eyes of other people or institutions, to the point where your human dignity means nothing to them because truth be told they prefer not to think of you as being a person.

3. Cynicism - dude orchestrating the assassination of a rival so that he can observe it from his seat on the space plane. Or the two prostitutes mugging a john while their colleagues are hawking another one few meters away. Or Trauma Team shooting down an entire building floor regardless of casualties to evac their customer.
Cynicism is not petty self-interest, people getting hurt, or not giving fucks. It's distrust, pessimism, and the belief that things are going to be shitty. It's an attitude and philosophy.

4. Rage against the machine - there's a news headline of a body count in anti-corporate protest and later a video clip of the same/another protest happening.
Yes, as a background detail. That one's fairly clear. I'm talking about whether the game itself (ie. the player perspective, not the background detail) will embody this, which it most likely will, but whether it will be done intelligently and meaningfully remains to be seen. The whole GTA aspect has given me serious doubts about it all.

5. Living under the yoke of authoritarians - corp interrogation, hillbilly couple living in a literal shack, poverty stricken losers under the shadow of corporate skyscrapers, so many more examples.
People having shit lives is not the same as living under authoritarian conditions. I know that an authoritarian society tends to go hand-in-hand with shit living conditions, but that doesn't mean they're the same thing. Corp interrogation is more a sign of authoritarianism, yes.

6. Scrounging out your own freedom and yadda yadda - hacker frying the brain of another corp executive, guy stealing another guy's cyber eye, dude getting busted at a street foodie stand, two punks fail robbing a convenience store.
Scrounging out your own freedom isn't something that was really demonstrated in this video. Getting ahead was clearly emphasized though. People doing shitty things to people isn't quite the same as creating your own freedom and independence. Remains to be seen how well CD Projekt will handle this.

So either you didn't watch the trailer at all or, more likely, you saw it once, paid little attention and then came here to frothe like a maniacal, pretentious twat. Now, if you want to hate on the game, feel fucking free to do so, but at least be intellectually honest about it.
Don't be a fucking idiot. I did watch the trailer, but that doesn't mean I would appreciate the same crap you do. And I'm actually much more concerned about the strong GTA overtones than shit like the lack of dark colors and rain. Like I said, I'm actually not a fan of the newer GTA3+ games and GTA sure as shit doesn't seem "cyberpunk" to me. And Mike Pondsmith having called GTA3 "basically cyberpunk minus the hardware" gives me further cause for serious doubt. You're just pissed I and others gave the trailer flak because it fails as cyberpunk, so you resort to calling people edgy and intellectually dishonest. Try not to be full of piss next time you come in bitching about people not liking what you like.

Did you watch Gamespot interview?
Watching it now, thanks. But just so we're clear, popamole literally means cover-based shooter. This is literally a popamole game.

:popamole:
 

GarfunkeL

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You're really trying too hard. Because at the end of the day it's a 90-second trailer meant to grab the attention of the average gamer/consumer, and you expect that it plumbs the depths of human condition in such detail that most books are unable to satisfy. Hypocrisy and pretentiousness at its highest levels. And your response is nothing but meaningless sophistry. Now a normal person wouldn't have flipped the fuck out in the first place, nor would they have continued the argument, but you're obviously reached autism levels not possible under normal circumstances, so I'm not surprised.

Also, that isn't what popamole means. God you're dumb. Popamole means shooters where you are literally glued to the cover and exchange pot shots with the enemy. Mass Effect 2 is popamole. Wolfenstein isn't popamole EVEN THOUGH THERE IS COVER and it's possible to use it. You're leaping into conclusions like a hysterical teenage girl.
 

Mr. Hiver

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I doubt there is even a theoretical way to make an open world in a city game that somehow wouldnt remind people of GTA - visually and in terms of the gameplay structure done as: drive there do a thing, drive somewhere else.
The question here is whether they managed to deepen that basic structure and introduce layers of RPG-like gameplay into it.
Judging by how well they built numerous quests and their C&C (of shall we say diverse quality) in W3, we can expect a decent density of them and several that will be quite good in narrative terms. I dont doubt there will be much more to do then in GTA and that it will be more RPG-sih in execution and depth.

Gameplay of course could go either way and there is a greater chance it will be mediocre shit made for mass audience, where the player is a special snowflake with special powers that no enemy will use on them.
As it seems from several described events.
I doubt we will ever see enemies hack our gun or do most of the "cool stuff" we can read players or her sidekick did in fights, like shooting cars to drop down to create cover or carry them as cover or run through walls.
I mean, it would be nice it it wasnt so and all this just looks like it due to the overleveled PC for the purposes of creating idiotic amounts of hype on E3.

- the scene where a merc plugs in a currency chip into a computer and then gets surprised there was a virus there is so dumb i cant even...

All that horseshit about choosing a background and shaping the "personality" by making choices is disgustingly laughable. I mean wow... we are going to chose a background for a character. Mind. Blown.
HOW exactly is it going to be done and WHAT exact consequences it will have? Is it going to affect and change actual stats, or is it going to be literally inconsequential superficial descriptive shit that wont matter for anything.

Jackets with neon lights in colars are mega super stupid. The male character looks like a shit. As is that clown posing with Pondsmith in that bar.
The name V is obviously taken from V for Vendeta... and thats just fucking stupid pandering to an idea that isnt applicable or relatable. Nobody commented on that because they are avoiding doing so intentionally, to avoid any "bad ideas" to lower the idiotic hype. Yes, yes, youll all be awesome "anarchists" and take down the "power"... and then do what? Live happily ever after, aintcha?

Forcing FP is dumb too, but thats what mass market and Doritos do to studios. The argument that it "increases immersion" is especially moronic, since POV doesnt create immersion at all and it may increase the sense of immersion only to FP players... while decrease it for all others. Not to mention how its main use to increase the sense of "IN YOUR FACE ACTION!!!" in action player driven games.
Its a big sign of entropy of RPGs.

They did manage to sidestep the issue of retro 80s-90s looking cyberpunk by saying its an alternate future timeline, so it isnt meant to represent our world future progression.

Aaand... 90% of codex should be gassed.


Absinthe, you should cut it down a bit. You got a few easy points with that drone but you should level up a lot more skills before trying to take on Garfunkel with that kind of shitty low level equipment.

That ain't ressentiment. Ressentiment would be the wageslave working his ass off trying to achieve bigger and better things only to never be valued for his work, get laid off, and lose all his health benefits and whatever else because all his effort never meant shit to them, none of his higher ups were ever going to care, and society as a whole doesn't care. He got fucked because none of his efforts and ambitions ever meant shit and it was a futile effort from the outset and he should've known better than think he was going to amount to something because society was never going to give him a chance.
That aint resentment, (and its not a ressentiment either) thats just failure, futility, hopelessness and depression.
And you dont seem to understand what cynicism is either.

It's distrust, pessimism, and the belief that things are going to be shitty.
Thats depression, pessimism and nihilism.

You're just pissed I and others gave the trailer flak because it fails as cyberpunk, so you resort to calling people edgy and intellectually dishonest. Try not to be full of piss next time you come in bitching about people not liking what you like.
He was very specific about why he argued against your ideas, so you to throw in a dumb strawman is intellectually dishonest. Appeals to popularity dont help either.

Garfunkel presented enough of instances of all the usual cyberpunk themes presented in the trailer.
Whether they will deliver - remains to be seen.
Go smash a few more popamoles, level up and choose a different battle some other time.

The California blue skies sunny summer scenes were definitely a miss, especially for a place thats called a Night city. And yes, if there is daylight in there it definitely shouldnt be so bright, sunny and nice.
But, even in the worst case ill just sleep all day and work only at night. If i ever play this shooter with RPG features.
 

Absinthe

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You're really trying too hard. Because at the end of the day it's a 90-second trailer meant to grab the attention of the average gamer/consumer, and you expect that it plumbs the depths of human condition in such detail that most books are unable to satisfy. Hypocrisy and pretentiousness at its highest levels. And your response is nothing but meaningless sophistry. Now a normal person wouldn't have flipped the fuck out in the first place, nor would they have continued the argument, but you're obviously reached autism levels not possible under normal circumstances, so I'm not surprised.
I give my views. You call me edgy. I ask you to get into the details. You do. I respond. You accuse me of autism. Okay son. No, I don't expect amazing depth out of the trailer or it hitting all the right notes or whatever. I'm just pointing out that what I've seen so far is superficial on the whole, doesn't have the kind of priorities I expect in a cyberpunk setting, and doesn't really do it for me. My view isn't 100% fixed on this, since obviously I don't have a lot to go off of here.

Also, that isn't what popamole means. God you're dumb. Popamole means shooters where you are literally glued to the cover and exchange pot shots with the enemy. Mass Effect 2 is popamole. Wolfenstein isn't popamole EVEN THOUGH THERE IS COVER and it's possible to use it. You're leaping into conclusions like a hysterical teenage girl.
Calm your tits, man. That said, you're right on the popamole shit and odds are Cyberpunk 2077 won't be quite as cover-glued as ME2, but we'll see how it goes.

I doubt there is even a theoretical way to make an open world in a city game that somehow wouldnt remind people of GTA - visually and in terms of the gameplay structure done as: drive there do a thing, drive somewhere else.
Hm, it's an interesting point. But I think there's more to it than just the open world urban city with driving. It's the whole blend it has going with the theme it was selling of achieving the american dream through wild crime in a seedy city that simultaneously sucks horribly and yet is desirable that sells the GTA vibe to me.

Forcing FP is dumb too, but thats what mass market and Doritos do to studios. The argument that it "increases immersion" is especially moronic, since POV doesnt create immersion at all and it may increase the sense of immersion only to FP players... while decrease it for all others. Not to mention how its main use to increase the sense of "IN YOUR FACE ACTION!!!" in action player driven games.
I'm not that picky on the first-person thing, to be honest. Deus Ex was a decent game after all. Although come to think of it as a cross-platform title that probably means the combat is going to be console-targeted FPS design.

Aaand... 90% of codex should be gassed.
Don't think it's quite that far yet, but yes, there are a lot of idiots on the codex. It's worthwhile to call them out on their shit from time to time (otherwise they'll never learn), but paul doesn't seem like a learning animal, so eh. In that case it's best if he'd fuck off.

Absinthe, you should cut it down a bit. You got a few easy points with that drone but you should level up a lot more skills before trying to take on Garfunkel with that kind of shitty low level equipment.
I already cut it down plenty, man. Can't expect me to sit there with a guy giving me shit and not take the piss out of him a bit.

That aint resentment, (and its not a ressentiment either) thats just failure, futility, hopelessness and depression.
And you dont seem to understand what cynicism is either
Had some trouble finding the right words, wasn't quite satisfied towards the end either. May have misstated it. Give me your take on it. I don't think the description I gave of cyberpunk is the end-all be-all definition of cyberpunk either, but I figured it was best to elaborate on my take of it a bit.

He was very specific about why he argued against your ideas, so you to throw in a dumb strawman is intellectually dishonest. Appeals to popularity dont help either.
I know he was specific about why he argued against my ideas. I just found his notion of edginess and that I am "frothing like a maniacal, pretentious twat" just because I didn't like the trailer pretty fucking overblown, so I gave my take on why he's acting out (ie. that he's mad I dislike something he likes). He also said he wasn't referring to just me so evidently I am not alone here. It's not some appeal to popularity shit. Maybe I'm not quite following what you mean by the dumb strawman.
 
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Naraya

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This reminds me Underrail launch time when people were edgy about fonts.

If there's one thing life codex taught me it's that you can be it's OK to be edgy about ANYTHING.

edit: Also, regarding this fpp/tpp discussion - the guy interviewed yesterday said the game will mainly have gun combat but there'll also be melee combat. I wonder how they are going to do that.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
Also, some Reddit dude said that the French gaming sites confirmed that "V", our protagonist, can be female, by using the female prefix or some such. So now that chick who modded PST to have a female protagonist can actually play this game.

I assumed protag would be female because of the handle. Male protag should be called D.
 

Mr. Hiver

Dumbfuck!
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Absinthe

Lets just get this out of the way.
Maybe I'm not quite following what you mean by the dumb strawman.
Every strawman is dumb by definition, but what i referring to were your claims to know his actual motivation telepathically and then arguing against that.
Its always a failure to go down that route no matter the excuses or what the other said.
Its unnecessary and self defeating. A good insult back is much more relevant and appropriate in such cases.

Don't think it's quite that far yet, but yes, there are a lot of idiots on the codex. It's worthwhile to call them out on their shit from time to time (otherwise they'll never learn),
Oh it went way beyond that far long time ago. And idiots by their nature cannot learn anything, nor can they change their nature. Im all for bashing them over the head, but not for their sake.
I was only joking, i meant to use laughing gas, ha ha.... ha. Although there is only one way to be sure.

As for resentment and or ressentiment and cynicism meaning, i find it too much work to try to explain what those terms mean in the same way its laborious to describe what salt tastes like without using the word "salty". The basic wiki definitions will have to suffice for such well known, specific terms.

Anyway, moving on...
Hm, it's an interesting point. But I think there's more to it than just the open world urban city with driving. It's the whole blend it has going with the theme it was selling of achieving the american dream through wild crime in a seedy city that simultaneously sucks horribly and yet is desirable that sells the GTA vibe to me.
Well... achieving the american dream through crime and violence is the american culture trope and reality at the same time. Permeated and pushed by the mindless media of all kinds because negativity attracts attention, sells tickets and creates clicks.
Which is why it was incorporated into practically every cyberpunk story that exists and why it also was such a big part of GTA gameplay, or really, a majority of the content of large majority of games in general.
It gets all those old survival instincts and ego tripping going really quick. Throw in some tits and ass and boom, two major instincts and biological imperatives - switched on.

Again, i dont see how could one make a cyberpunk game without those basic elements, especially the old school cyberpunk. And then it naturally draws similarity to GTA, because it actually uses the same basic elements.
In a city setting. And every fucking city is the same and makes people travel through it and behave in it in much the same ways.

I would be curious how Gibson and others see that genre from 20-30 years in the future where its obvious most of its main old schticks just cant work like that.
Ive watched the "No maps for these territories" with Gibson talking about such things, but i would be interested how would they approach it today and is it even possible to do in a more modern contemporary based setting, moved a bit into the future. Sure, things arent rosy and there is much anguish and troubles around, but we moved away from many of the cyberpunk tropes.
Which is why Cyberpunk 2013-77 setting is a rehash of Neuromancer and why the game is apparently happening in an alternate history future, in order to resurrect many of those old and now laughable tropes.

You did describe the basic elements of the genre well, but Garfunkel also rightly pointed out those elements seem to exist in the trailer we saw. I would maybe say that the scene of prostitutes stomping some guy while everyone else mind their own business and junkie is getting high on the side show one kind of dehumanization aspect, but its really hard to imagine a cyberpunk without it, especially since such things are already present in our current society and cultures.
That does not mean all those elements will be executed properly or in good enough quality, but thats something we cant really conclude now.

On the other hand i wouldnt say thats all there is to the cyberpunk, all that we are supposed to be in it.
If all im supposed to do is drop fools, steal goods, hack credits and go galivating around some city... then all im doing is endlessly rehashing basic elements with no purpose other then that one. A hamster in a wheel.
Case and Molly didnt just do that. They may started that way and werent looking further then doing another job, making another score, but thats not what they ended up doing.

I highly doubt we will get anything even close to that, but this game is obviously made for mass audience hamsters who like their wheels so much, and even think putting their heads into a box will make it more immersive too.
 
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Messages
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Some stuff from the trailer that I found interesting.

2cUHEqe.png


FXAPFyN.png

Women beating the shit out of cis male oppressors and putting them where they belong in my mainstream RPG
Happy_Tears.jpg
 
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Absinthe

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
4,062
Absinthe

Lets just get this out of the way. Every strawman is dumb by definition, but what i referring to were your claims to know his actual motivation telepathically and then arguing against that.
Its always a failure to go down that route no matter the excuses or what the other said.
Its unnecessary and self defeating. A good insult back is much more relevant and appropriate in such cases.
I don't consider psychoanalysis the same as a strawman. And every so often a person's behavior speaks for themselves, like when I pointed out that paul's purportedly polite disagreement was in reality anything but a calm and measured response. But most of all psychoanalyzing people (esp. in a condescending way) just pisses them off. It works even better than insults. And in the insult war, the goal is to get under the other person's skin (and to come up with quality zingers, but we can't have our A material all the time - at least, I'm not that good).

As for resentment and or ressentiment and cynicism meaning, i find it too much work to try to explain what those terms mean in the same way its laborious to describe what salt tastes like without using the word "salty". The basic wiki definitions will have to suffice for such well known, specific terms.
Hmm, I was going by the dictionary definition but the encyclopedic definition seems better. This is starting to make my habit of double-checking the dictionary before I get into an argument over words feel inadequate. As for cynicism, it's a general low expectation of people's behaviors and motives. It's not the quality of being in a shitty world but people having negative expectations of others' motives and behaviors.

Well... achieving the american dream through crime and violence is the american culture trope and reality at the same time. Permeated and pushed by the mindless media of all kinds because negativity attracts attention, sells tickets and creates clicks. Which is why it was incorporated into practically every cyberpunk story that exists and why it also was such a big part of GTA gameplay, or really, a majority of the content of large majority of games in general.It gets all those old survival instincts and ego tripping going really quick. Throw in some tits and ass and boom, two major instincts and biological imperatives - switched on.

Again, i dont see how could one make a cyberpunk game without those basic elements, especially the old school cyberpunk. And then it naturally draws similarity to GTA, because it actually uses the same basic elements.
I think it's more particularly the GTA version of the american dream that we're seeing here. The American dream is a concept that promotes honest hard labor and ambition to achieve your own success and prosperity. This seems more like it's trying to turn the american dream into a criminal action movie.

In a city setting. And every fucking city is the same and makes people travel through it and behave in it in much the same ways.
Nah, you're oversimplifying. Even if we're just limiting it to American cities, Kansas City, Detroit, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, San Francisco, Chicago, Dallas, Washington D.C., Salt Lake City, Boston, etc. are all different beasts. There's a different vibe and spirit depending on the place.

I would be curious how Gibson and others see that genre from 20-30 years in the future where its obvious most of its main old schticks just cant work like that.
Ive watched the "No maps for these territories" with Gibson talking about such things, but i would be interested how would they approach it today and is it even possible to do in a more modern contemporary based setting, moved a bit into the future. Sure, things arent rosy and there is much anguish and troubles around, but we moved away from many of the cyberpunk tropes.
Which is why Cyberpunk 2013-77 setting is a rehash of Neuromancer and why the game is apparently happening in an alternate history future, in order to resurrect many of those old and now laughable tropes.
It's safe to say this isn't Gibson's take on modern-day cyberpunk though, judging by Gibson's own words.

You did describe the basic elements of the genre well, but Garfunkel also rightly pointed out those elements seem to exist in the trailer we saw. I would maybe say that the scene of prostitutes stomping some guy while everyone else mind their own business and junkie is getting high on the side show one kind of dehumanization aspect, but its really hard to imagine a cyberpunk without it, especially since such things are already present in our current society and cultures.
That does not mean all those elements will be executed properly or in good enough quality, but thats something we cant really conclude now
You make a solid point on the dehumanization point. Certainly getting your ass kicked to the curb and beaten the shit out of you practically for sport doesn't do much for a person's human dignity. And yes, it remains to be seen how well those elements will be executed, but I find the trailer's priorities to be somewhat indicative of the game's priorities.

On the other hand i wouldn't say that's all there is to the cyberpunk, all that we are supposed to be in it.
If all im supposed to do is drop fools, steal goods, hack credits and go gallivanting around some city... then all I'm doing is endlessly rehashing basic elements with no purpose other then that one. A hamster in a wheel.
Case and Molly didn't just do that. They may started that way and weren't looking further then doing another job, making another score, but that's not what they ended up doing.

I highly doubt we will get anything even close to that, but this game is obviously made for mass audience hamsters who like their wheels so much, and even think putting their heads into a box will make it more immersive too.
:bro:

Looking over the cyberpunk rulebook on being edgy (see here), it's safe to say that Pondsmith's take is sooner a celebration of that sort of thing, the shallow materialism, addiction to adrenaline, and aimless spirit of "being a rebel" like being a punk just for the sake of being a punk like a damn excuse to act out than what proper cyberpunk reflects upon. There's usually an existentialist and reflective quality to cyberpunk, a certain perception of society and the world, that's so far just missing here.
 
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GarfunkeL

Racism Expert
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I am looking forward to the autistic novel written by you once the actual game is out and you've played it through seven times. If you can sperg out this much over a 90-second trailer and bunch of Twitter posts, you must be able to write 100,000 words or more!
 

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