Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Pathfinder Monks: A Guide to Punching!

Pink Eye

Monk
Patron
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
5,797
Location
Space Refrigerator
I'm very into cock and ball torture
Introduction:
Monks are the true masters of both body and spirit. They dedicate years of their life in order to hone their skills. All of this to achieve the perfect self, enlightenment. The thing that all monks aspire to. Through discipline, and sheer will power, monks are capable of harnessing the spirit within themselves in order to perform spectacular physical achievements. Not many can boast of such feats, save for monks. This spirit is called KI Power and is what allows them to perform such amazing feats. Disciples of both fist and weapons, these highly versatile warriors are fast, agile, and determined. Capable of one punching things to death, or pummeling enemies with their fists. Monks always pull through when it matters!

This guide will, hopefully, give you the knowledge you need to play the class competently.
Class Features:
Pathfinder: Kingmaker uses Unchained Monk. This version of monk addresses many of the issues that vanilla monk suffers from, while also introducing some quality of life changes. The main things:

Full BAB - Unchained monk now has full base attack bonus. This now means that monk will have the same progression as fighter. BAB is important in that it determines your accuracy to hit, and how many attacks you can dish out per round. With full BAB and flurry of blows, a monk is capable of performing 8 attacks per round.

AC Bonus - When not wearing any armor, the monk adds his WIS to AC. The bonus is further increased by +1 at each four levels within the class, up to a maximum of +5 at level 20. This bonus is applied to touch AC as well.

Flurry of Blows - At level 1 a monk is capable of making consecutive attacks as a full attack. This basically means that the monk can perform one additional attack. You get an additional attack at level 11. These attacks are made at the highest BAB. These attacks stack with other effects that grant an additional attack.

KI Powers - The monk is able to pick a KI Power that will facilitate him to perform amazing physical feats. These powers can either be spell like abilities or innate passives.

KI Strike - These are primarily passives that apply to unarmed attacks in order to bypass DR. At level 3 unarmed attacks get treated as magic weapons. At level 7 unarmed attacks get treated as Cold Iron and Sliver. At level 10 unarmed gets treated as Lawful. Finally at level 16 unarmed gets treated as Adamantine.

Style Strikes - Whenever a monk makes a flurry of blows, one of the unarmed attacks can be treated as a style strike. These effects vary on the type you choose. Here is the list of style strikes:
Hammerblow: If this style strike hits, the monk rolls his unarmed damage twice. Both rolls are added before other modifiers. Basically, more damage. This bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit.
Shattering Punch: A brutal punch that can bypass any DR or hardness that an enemy has.
Defensive Spin: If the monk lands a successful hit with this style strike, he then gains a +4 dodge bonus to AC until the next turn. Thid does not stack with itself.
Leg Sweep: If you attack with this style strike on, then you make a free trip attempt. The trip does not provoke AoO though.
Stats:
For DEX monks you can get away with dumping your INT, CHA, and STR. Leaving you with plenty of ability points.
An optimal stat spread for a DEX monk will look like this:
STR 7
DEX 18
CON 16
INT 7
WIS 18
CHA 7

One important thing to note for DEX based monks, is that you can dip 3 levels into the rogue class in order to do damage with fists. Finesse training is crucial for DEX based monks. If you do not want to dip three levels into rogue, there is an amulet called agile fists that allows you to apply your dexterity modifier to damage rolls, as long as you have the weapon finesse feat.

For Strength monks you are limited to what you can dump. As you are dependent on lots of stats.
An optimal stat spread for Strength monk will look like this:
STR 19
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 7
WIS 16
CHA 7
Races:
While any race can be a monk. Some races are going to be better at it than others. Such is life. Below are the best races I think will make for good monks:
Human - This race gives a +2 to whatever ability score you choose, but the most important thing here, is that you can get an extra feat. This is invaluable. That extra feat can be used for better survivability, or to help finish the build early.

Tiefling - Tieflngs come with heritages. These heritages provide you with +2 to two stats, but they each provide a unique passive. For example, Motherless adds a secondary bite attack, which can be used in conjunction with Flurry of Blows. Pitborn gains a +2 racial bonus on all rolls to confirm critical hits, quite useful. As you can see some of these passive can be quite helpful for monks.

Aasimar - This race primarily gains a +2 to two stats, but gains some spell like abilities. These abilities can be very useful in the early game.

Halfling - By far the best race in the game that makes for potent tank. This race gains +2 to both DEX and CHA. It also comes with halfling luck, which basically gives a +1 racial bonus on all saving throws. But the most important thing about this race is that it can qualify for Cautious Fighter. Cautious Fighter increase the bonus to dodge AC to +2 when fighting defensively. The reason why this is important is because it can stack with crane style.

Dwarf - A niche race, but it's one my favorites. This race gains a +2 to CON and WIS. It also comes with hardy. Hardy gives a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against poison, spells, and spell like abilities. The cool thing about the race, is that it can qualify you for Steel Soul. Steel Soul replaces hardy with a higher +4 racial bonus.
Feats:
There are many feats in the game. However, here are the best feats that I think you should consider for your build:
(If you reach a point where you don't know which feats to pick, always go for utility based feats.)
Power Attack (For STR based monks)
Piranha Strike (For DEX based monks)
Dodge
Toughness
Deflect Arrows
Weapon Focus
Combat Reflexes
Improved Initiative
Iron Will
Improved Iron Will
Blind Fight
Improved Blind Fight
Greater Blind Fight
Critical Focus
Hammer the Gap
Improved Critical
Outflank
Shake it Off
Seize the moment
Pummeling Bully
Pummeling Charge
Dragon Ferocity
Crane Style
Dragon Style
Pummeling Style
Crane Wing
Crane Riposte
Trip
Fury’s Fall
Monk Styles:
Since you can only have one style activate at any one time. I suggest picking one style, and dedicating your build around it.
Dragon Style - The best style for high STR monks. This allows you to squeeze additional damage from your STR modifier, very good. Basically more damage the higher your STR.
Pummeling Style - While this won't do as much damage as Dragon Style, in conjunction with all of monk's unarmed passives it does have the potential to bypass DR. Indeed, while Dragon Style may do more damage, when DR is factored, it tends to fall off. So this is a solid style to focus on when DR does become a factor. Also, pummeling style allows for pounce and bully later on. Also good.
Crane Style - The go to style for tank oriented monks.
While my builds all favor Dragon Style, that doesn't mean the others suck. Experiment and try out each one. They all have their own advantages and disadvantages.
KI Powers:
Most of the KI Power are not all that exciting. This is due to the fact that spells, scrolls, and wands; can provide the same effect as KI Powers. However, with that in mind, here are a few of my favorites:
Bark Skin
True Strike
Abundant Step
Diamond Body
Diamond Soul
Builds:
The Sword Saint Unarmed Build
Guide for CHA based monk
Pure Monk Build
Sensei Wonder Punch!
The Dragon Fist!
Pummeling Tripy Monk!
Crane Style Monk
Summary:
Monk in general is a pretty lackluster class compared to the others, but if you stick to it, you will enjoy it a lot. The key thing about the class is that you can self buff and dish out multiple consecutive attacks per round. While also being hardy enough to hold the line for allies when it matters. In higher levels you'll be able to teleport around the battlefield completely annihilating enemies. Of course as with all martial based builds, you need the support of a spell caster in order to reach your true potential. I love the class, and think it is the best class in the game. Hopefully, after reading this, you will try the class out and enjoy it as much as I have.
Videos:
Here are some videos showcasing the power of monks! Enjoy!





Equipment list:
Some items might be missing on this list, please point out any I might have missed! List here!
 
Last edited:

Pink Eye

Monk
Patron
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
5,797
Location
Space Refrigerator
I'm very into cock and ball torture
FUCK MONKS

LAMEST CLASS

besides bard
>Lamest Class
OH NO NO NO! BROS!
dy0rYgq.png
6Iul5sE.png
BYhmuaj.png
DB5cij6.png
 

Generic-Giant-Spider

Guest
TRY THAT SHIT ON MY KNIFE MASTER ROGUE

BEGIN WORK ON THE TB PVP MOD
 

Pink Eye

Monk
Patron
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
5,797
Location
Space Refrigerator
I'm very into cock and ball torture
Sjukob After rereading the thread, I started to remember the entire point of that discussion. We were basically debating the merits of monk's flurry of blows, KI powers, and innate unarmed passives, vs sword saint. The conclusions that were drawn were that sword saints are superior. Sword saint's weapon enchantments do work on monks unarmed fists. So, 1 monk (or 2 level dip) and rest into sword saint makes for a superior monk, than monk. But that is a testament to just how overloaded the sword saint kit is. The other build ideas were just for fun, but some of them do have merit. Of course no amount of objectivity will make me change my opinion. Flurry of blows and the ability to perform 8 attacks PER round is just too fucking good in a real time based system. Doubly so when you need competent auto attacks who can kill things with little to no micromanagement.
 

Sjukob

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
2,060
Sjukob After rereading the thread, I started to remember the entire point of that discussion. We were basically debating the merits of monk's flurry of blows, KI powers, and innate unarmed passives, vs sword saint. The conclusions that were drawn were that sword saints are superior. Sword saint's weapon enchantments do work on monks unarmed fists. So, 1 monk (or 2 level dip) and rest into sword saint makes for a superior monk, than monk. But that is a testament to just how overloaded the sword saint kit is. The other build ideas were just for fun, but some of them do have merit. Of course no amount of objectivity will make me change my opinion. Flurry of blows and the ability to perform 8 attacks PER round is just too fucking good in a real time based system. Doubly so when you need competent auto attacks who can kill things with little to no micromanagement.
So what do I do to get sword saint break dragons in half with his fists ? How do I allocate stat points and what feats should I choose ? Does your guide in the OP apply here ? I'm relatively new to the game and don't have a good understanding of classes yet, like where does unarmed sword saint (and unarmed sorcerer for that matter) get his damage from, since it scales with monk levels ?
 

Pink Eye

Monk
Patron
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
5,797
Location
Space Refrigerator
I'm very into cock and ball torture
Oh. You need actual advice. Oops. Okay, give me an hour or so to whip out a guide for you. I'll walk you through it, feats, stats, and anything else you might need to know. Be patient.
 

Pink Eye

Monk
Patron
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
5,797
Location
Space Refrigerator
I'm very into cock and ball torture
Sjukob For the Sword Saint build, here is what it'd look like:
Race:
First you are going to start with Tiefling, make sure you pick the hungerseed heritage. The reason why tiefling is chosen is due to the +2 racial bonus towards stats. The reason why the heritage hungerseed is chosen is due to the +2 bonus to Strength and Wisdom. You do receive a -2 to Charisma, but that isn't a big deal. In Pathfinder: Kingmaker, your companions can make persuasion checks for you. So, as long as you have a companion whom has decent persuasion, then you should be good in that department. You can also roll with a human for that extra feat if you so desire. I myself enjoy humans because that extra feat allows you to better round your build early.

Stats:
For stats I suggest focusing on getting your Strength as high as you can. Strength is the main stat for this build. Strength is what determines how much damage you do, and your ability to hit. The formula that determines your ability to hit, goes as such: Base Attack Bonus(This value is gained primarily from class levels. Certain classes have different BAB progressions. A full BAB class gains a +1 at each level up. Read more about BAB progression here) + Strength Modifier(Read more about the significance of the strength modifier here) + Size Modifier(Read more about size modifier here). Generally speaking you want to shoot for 18-20 strength. 19 is a good place to be because it allows you to place more points into other stats which are needed for this build. For example, since this build will be a sword saint, you will need a little of intelligence, dexterity, constitution, and wisdom. 20 strength is only necessary if you're playing on Unfair (The hardest difficulty in the game). You might be wondering why I am placing such a high emphasis on strength. Well it's because of the power attack + dragon style synergy. I'll explain more about that later. For now here is what a balanced stat spread will look like:
STR: 19
DEX: 14
CON: 11
INT: 14
WIS: 16
CHA: 5

I'll explain why the stats are the way they are. First off, due to how MAD(Multiple ability dependent) monks are in general(Gets worse when you're multiclassing); you won't have as many points to distribute. However, the main thing is getting dexterity to 14. The reasoning is due to several. But for starters dexterity improves armor class(Armor class is significant. This is what determines if you get hit or not. However, since this is a sword saint build, armor class is redundant.), gives initiative(Initiative is important in that it determines how fast your character can act before the enemy does.), and by far the biggest one is the synergy between dexterity and combat reflexes (More about that later). The next stat is intelligence. Since this is a sword saint build, you will need decent intelligence. Sword saint has a passive where he can add one point of intelligence to his armor class. Sword saint also needs decent intelligence in order cast spell competently. Wisdom is the last stat. As a monk you need wisdom, it's what determines how much armor class you get. Wisdom also helps with will saves. Constitution is hit points, self explanatory. But since this is a monk/sword saint build you shouldn't be hit that much to rely on hit points.

Class overview:
The main thing here is that sword saint has so many amazing passives and abilities. Go to the class and look at each and every single thing it gets at each level. Each level adds more and more power to the class. While sword saint is not a full BAB class(This basically means that unlike fighter/monk/and other martial based characters; sword saint only gains about half BAB each level, here is the BAB progression table for the sword saint class), however the kit of the class more than makes up for it. In order to avoid diluting the class, I suggest only going one level into monk, then rest into sword saint. The main reason why is because the first level of monk gives you this. Simply put that first level into monk is what allows you to do damage with your fists. While also allowing you to get those sweet sweet sword saint passives. Sword saint can also self buff with mirror image and other buffs, unlike monk. Further making him untouchable.

Feats:
This can be very complicated due to how certain feats work with each other, and how feats work with stats. Here is the main important ones: Power attack + dragon style(later dragon ferocity, which is the upgraded variant of dragon style). Power attack gives you a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls, and is further increased by your BAB, but it does incur a penalty to attack rolls, which is too increased by your BAB. However, the trade off is that you will do more damage. The penalty to attack rolls only comes into play in the early game, but even then you can always turn it on or off. Dragon style allows you to add 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus towards your damage on your first unarmed strike within each given round. It's upgraded variant, dragon ferocity, further increases the strength bonus towards damage. Now, the most significant thing here to note is that both dragon style and power attack stack with each other; meaning these feats are what facilitates you to do big damage as an unarmed user. However, if you were going pure monk, you'll have full flurry of blows progression. Which means you will be able to dish out 8 attacks per round. Which means you don't need dragon style, you can instead go for pummeling style. Pummeling style basically totals the damage from all hits being made from flurry of blows before applying damage reduction. This means more damage per second on top of having the ability to perform more attacks per round. Furthermore, if you add hammer the gap + shattering punch(hammer the gap does indeed work with flurry of blows by the way, basically more damage.) to the mix, you further increase the potency of pummeling style. Consider this pure monk being able to eat through an adamantine golem on unfair(Adamantine golems are a hardy tough enemy, doubly so on unfair. Since unfair inflates their stats even more), but I digress:
qLNQA29.png

The next feats worth discussing is combat reflexes, outflank, flanking, and their interaction with dexterity. So, unlike pen and paper, the developers made some compromises to the flanking mechanic. In pen and paper you have to set up your units in order for flanking to occur. Flanking essentially gives you a +2 bonus to attack rolls against an enemy, which is grand. However, in the video game, you no longer need to set up for flanking. Instead, if one or two units are attacking the same target, then those units will automatically benefit from the flanking bonus(Here is the game's version of flanking), requiring little to no set up. So, why is that important? Well those compromises gave an indirect buff to attack of opportunity. Attacks of opportunity is basically free attacks that can be made against an enemy. Combat reflexes then adds another attack when AoO is provoked. The more targets that are provoked or threatened, the more AoOs you can perform based on each threatened target(However the number of AoOs you perform depends on your dexterity. Note, combat reflexes does not allow you multiple attacks against the target. Only gives you one attack. Certain feats however can allow you additional AoOs). Finally the icing on the cake, Outflank. Outflank is a god send. It adds more ridiculousness. If you and your allies are flanking the same target(Which is easily achieved due to the compromises on flanking) then you all gain a +4 attacking bonus. But the most important bit is that outflank gives you an additional AoO. However, you have to ensure that all of your melee combatants have these feats: Combat Reflexes and Outflank. Otherwise AoO stacking will not be very potent. To see it in play:
notice how as soon as a crit was made everyone got free AoOs against the target that is the power of AoO stacking
VaO58Ll.png

Another one worth mentioning is the feat called improved initiative. The feat compounded with dexterity allows you the opportunity to act right before your opponent does. I like to think of initiative as attack speed.

One last important thing to consider. Sword saint has the ability to qualify for fighter based feats, due to fighter training. Fighter Training: "Starting at level 7 a magus counts his magus level -3 as his fighter level for the purpose of qualifying for feats. If he has levels in fighter, these levels stack". In other words you get more power.

Alright, to summarize this section. Here is the best feats to take at each level:
Level 1: Traditional Monk(This subclass is picked specifically because of the bonus to will saves). Feats: Combat Reflexes/Power Attack. Skills: Mobility +1, Perception +1(Rest can be spent anywhere else you want. Most important is getting mobility to 3 in order to get dragon style.)

Level 2: Sword Saint. Chosen Weapon: Unarmed Strike. Skills: Mobility +1, Perception +1
Level 3: Sword Saint. Feats: Dragon Style. Skills: Mobility +1, Perception +1
Level 4: Sword Saint. First level up stat point goes directly to STR. Skills: Mobility +1, Perception +1. For Magus Arcana I suggest picking "Arcane Accuracy".
Level 5: Sword Saint. Feat: Dragon Ferocity. Skills: Mobility +1, Perception +1. Now that we have Dragon Ferocity you can spend your skill points in what ever manner you wish. I suggest continuing pumping perception.
Level 6: Sword Saint. Feat: Outflank (It is super important that your other melee combatants have this feat as well!)
Level 7: Sword Saint. Feat: Deflect Arrows (This is nice to have. Once per round this allows you to deflect an incoming arrow. Very handy.) Magus Arcana: Enduring Blade.
Level 8: Sword Saint. Second level up stat point goes into STR.
Level 9: Sword Saint. Feat: Weapon Specialization(It adds +2 bonus damage. Not a lot, but it does add up)
Level 10: Sword Saint.
Level 11: Sword Saint. Feats: Improved Critical: Unarmed Strike.
Level 12: Sword Saint. Third level up stat point goes into STR. Feats: Greater Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike.

Level 13: Sword Saint. Feats: Improved Initiative. Magus Arcana: Dimension Strike (At this point it doesn't matter which ones you pick. The main ones to pick are Enduring Blade, Arcane Accuracy, and Dimension Strike. Once those are picked the rest are inconsequential)
Level 14: Sword Saint.
Level 15: Sword Saint. Feats: Critical Focus.
Level 16: Sword Saint. Fourth level up stat point goes into STR.
Level 17: Sword Saint. Feats: Greater Weapon Specialization: Unarmed Strike,
Level 18: Sword Saint. Feats: Arcane Strike.
Level 19: Sword Saint. Feats: Penetrating Strike.
Level 20: Sword Saint. Feats: Last and final level up stat point goes into STR.

Spells(From order of importance):
1) Enlarge, Shield, True Strike.
2) Mirror Image, Blur, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace.
3) Haste, Displacement.
4) Stone Skin.
5) Vampiric Shadow.
6) True Seeing, Transformation.


Gameplay mechanics:
Tips to consider:
>Disable spell strike.
>Pick Arcane Strike and always make sure its activated. (It's like Power attack, you turn it on and leave it on, however sometimes it will turn off. So double check to see if its on.)
>Enchant fists with Arcane Weapon Enhancement. Do not enchant fists with other effects (No keen, flaming, holy, etc etc)
>Get a +4 to intelligence headband and as quickly as you can.
>Depending on what difficulty you chose, early game will be a crap shot. Rely on enlarge, and having someone attract all aggro. As soon as you gain mirror image you will be able to front line.
>Don't neglect the importance of enlarge. Enlarge further adds more strength which further stacks with power attack and dragon ferocity. If you have an alchemist(Jubilost also get this spell too) or wizard(Octavia can get this spell)they can get access to a spell called,"Legendary Proportions". This spell increases both your damage and stats to ludicrous amounts. Truly this is the buffs of buffs.
>Don't neglect Amulet of Mighty Fists. It adds even more damage to your unarmed strike.
>Perfect Strike, Sword Saint's abilities, maximums the damage you do with your chosen weapon.
>Perfect Critical, allows you to increase the crit multiplier when you crit.
>Get a rod of extend when you can. The rod allows your self buffs to last longer.
>Make sure you have a wizard and or cleric to accompany. Bark Skin and Shield of Faith are amazing buffs for the early game.
>Mage armor is another buff that will carry you through the early game until you come across armor of braces that give you a higher bonus than mage armor. You can buy mage armor potions for cheap, and they last for a whole hour.

Screenshots of the build in action:
gKQMipE.png
ezaHw8j.png

Conclusion:
This build will do even more damage if it had a belt that gave +8 to physical stats, legendary proportions, haste, and a +8 headband to mental stats.
 
Last edited:

Pink Eye

Monk
Patron
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
5,797
Location
Space Refrigerator
I'm very into cock and ball torture
In the end. My Scaled monk with a level 1 dip into vivi, and pure pummeling style monk, were still able to compete with sword saint, so meh. It's irrelevant as to how much damage you can pull off. Things are going to get one shot with 100+ damage regardless.
 
Last edited:

Pink Eye

Monk
Patron
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
5,797
Location
Space Refrigerator
I'm very into cock and ball torture
Which is why the OP of this thread, which is more about pure monks, either strength or dexterity; works. Monks are going to deal big dick damage. They just can't compete with the over loaded class that is Sword Saint.
 

Pink Eye

Monk
Patron
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
5,797
Location
Space Refrigerator
I'm very into cock and ball torture
Sjukob Monks just feel better to play, in my opinion. Once you get the power feats, you're left with an array of utility feats to pick. Flurry of blows + monks innate passives to unarmed, will carry you through. Again, I can not over state just how powerful flurry of blows is.
 

Sjukob

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
2,060
Sjukob Monks just feel better to play, in my opinion. Once you get the power feats, you're left with an array of utility feats to pick. Flurry of blows + monks innate passives to unarmed, will carry you through. Again, I can not over state just how powerful flurry of blows is.
I don't really like how monk is pretty unfriendly to multiclassing and that he basically wants every attribute in the game, makes him look very inflexible to me. Would've been cool if it was possible to combine maxed flurry of blows with spell stike, by the way, I heard that it procs twice if you fight unarmed, is it true ? Also, does monk retain flurry of blows if you polymorph him ? Will he do a trillion attacks per round if I turn him into a dragon ?
 

Pink Eye

Monk
Patron
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
5,797
Location
Space Refrigerator
I'm very into cock and ball torture
Sjukob Monks just feel better to play, in my opinion. Once you get the power feats, you're left with an array of utility feats to pick. Flurry of blows + monks innate passives to unarmed, will carry you through. Again, I can not over state just how powerful flurry of blows is.
I don't really like how monk is pretty unfriendly to multiclassing and that he basically wants every attribute in the game, makes him look very inflexible to me. Would've been cool if it was possible to combine maxed flurry of blows with spell stike, by the way, I heard that it procs twice if you fight unarmed, is it true ? Also, does monk retain flurry of blows if you polymorph him ? Will he do a trillion attacks per round if I turn him into a dragon ?
Whoa! Too many questions. Let's start one by one. I'll try to answer to the best of my knowledge.
>I don't really like how monk is pretty unfriendly to multiclassing.
Yup. Just the nature of the class, really. Unchained monk, which is what the video game monk uses, addressed most of monk's issues. But like you said, multi classing on monk is pretty tricky. This is just how the Pathfinder rule set is. Pathfinder rewards single classes, and attempts to deincentivize multi classing.

>I heard that it procs twice if you fight unarmed, is it true.
I actually never checked it. Might be worth testing it. But from my understanding at level one monk should have an extra attack from flurry of blows. However, I never observed the interaction between spell strike and flurry of blows. Apologizes, but I don't know the answer to the question.

>Also, does monk retain flurry of blows if you polymorph him ?
I have to check the official ruling on that. There was this thread on the official Paizo forums about it. Then there was Paizo's official ruling on the interaction between magic fang, unarmed, and flurry of blows. To be frank I really don't know. But due to how buggy the game is, I wouldn't put past the game for such an interaction to be a thing, even though it might contradict the rules. Might need to ask a Pathfinder expert about it.

>Will he do a trillion attacks per round if I turn him into a dragon ?
That was actually a bug that could occur, yes. No clue if the developers finally fixed it or not.
 

kelkorkesis

Novice
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
92
kelkorkesis What do you think about monk retaining flurry of blows when poly morphed?

I never had an opportunity to play with such character in this game. You can do it pnp with a feat (Feral Combat Training) and Call of the Wild mod implements it iirc, so it doesn't work in vanilla probably. Game will force you to either flurry with unarmed strikes or attack with natural attacks I suppose.
 

Pink Eye

Monk
Patron
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
5,797
Location
Space Refrigerator
I'm very into cock and ball torture
kelkorkesis What do you think about monk retaining flurry of blows when poly morphed?

I never had an opportunity to play with such character in this game. You can do it pnp with a feat (Feral Combat Training) and Call of the Wild mod implements it iirc, so it doesn't work in vanilla probably. Game will force you to either flurry with unarmed strikes or attack with natural attacks I suppose.
Huh. Well thanks for clearing that up.
 

Sjukob

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
2,060
kelkorkesis What do you think about monk retaining flurry of blows when poly morphed?

I never had an opportunity to play with such character in this game. You can do it pnp with a feat (Feral Combat Training) and Call of the Wild mod implements it iirc, so it doesn't work in vanilla probably. Game will force you to either flurry with unarmed strikes or attack with natural attacks I suppose.
1450964973497.jpg


Cool, I might try it out someday.
 

Pink Eye

Monk
Patron
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
5,797
Location
Space Refrigerator
I'm very into cock and ball torture
Sjukob For the Sword Saint build, here is what it'd look like:
Race:
First you are going to start with Tiefling, make sure you pick the hungerseed heritage. The reason why tiefling is chosen is due to the +2 racial bonus towards stats. The reason why the heritage hungerseed is chosen is due to the +2 bonus to Strength and Wisdom. You do receive a -2 to Charisma, but that isn't a big deal. In Pathfinder: Kingmaker, your companions can make persuasion checks for you. So, as long as you have a companion whom has decent persuasion, then you should be good in that department. You can also roll with a human for that extra feat if you so desire. I myself enjoy humans because that extra feat allows you to better round your build early.

Stats:
For stats I suggest focusing on getting your Strength as high as you can. Strength is the main stat for this build. Strength is what determines how much damage you do, and your ability to hit. The formula that determines your ability to hit, goes as such: Base Attack Bonus(This value is gained primarily from class levels. Certain classes have different BAB progressions. A full BAB class gains a +1 at each level up. Read more about BAB progression here) + Strength Modifier(Read more about the significance of the strength modifier here) + Size Modifier(Read more about size modifier here). Generally speaking you want to shoot for 18-20 strength. 19 is a good place to be because it allows you to place more points into other stats which are needed for this build. For example, since this build will be a sword saint, you will need a little of intelligence, dexterity, constitution, and wisdom. 20 strength is only necessary if you're playing on Unfair (The hardest difficulty in the game). You might be wondering why I am placing such a high emphasis on strength. Well it's because of the power attack + dragon style synergy. I'll explain more about that later. For now here is what a balanced stat spread will look like:
STR: 19
DEX: 14
CON: 11
INT: 14
WIS: 16
CHA: 5

I'll explain why the stats are the way they are. First off, due to how MAD(Multiple ability dependent) monks are in general(Gets worse when you're multiclassing); you won't have as many points to distribute. However, the main thing is getting dexterity to 14. The reasoning is due to several. But for starters dexterity improves armor class(Armor class is significant. This is what determines if you get hit or not. However, since this is a sword saint build, armor class is redundant.), gives initiative(Initiative is important in that it determines how fast your character can act before the enemy does.), and by far the biggest one is the synergy between dexterity and combat reflexes (More about that later). The next stat is intelligence. Since this is a sword saint build, you will need decent intelligence. Sword saint has a passive where he can add one point of intelligence to his armor class. Sword saint also needs decent intelligence in order cast spell competently. Wisdom is the last stat. As a monk you need wisdom, it's what determines how much armor class you get. Wisdom also helps with will saves. Constitution is hit points, self explanatory. But since this is a monk/sword saint build you shouldn't be hit that much to rely on hit points.

Class overview:
The main thing here is that sword saint has so many amazing passives and abilities. Go to the class and look at each and every single thing it gets at each level. Each level adds more and more power to the class. While sword saint is not a full BAB class(This basically means that unlike fighter/monk/and other martial based characters; sword saint only gains about half BAB each level, here is the BAB progression table for the sword saint class), however the kit of the class more than makes up for it. In order to avoid diluting the class, I suggest only going one level into monk, then rest into sword saint. The main reason why is because the first level of monk gives you this. Simply put that first level into monk is what allows you to do damage with your fists. While also allowing you to get those sweet sweet sword saint passives. Sword saint can also self buff with mirror image and other buffs, unlike monk. Further making him untouchable.

Feats:
This can be very complicated due to how certain feats work with each other, and how feats work with stats. Here is the main important ones: Power attack + dragon style(later dragon ferocity, which is the upgraded variant of dragon style). Power attack gives you a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls, and is further increased by your BAB, but it does incur a penalty to attack rolls, which is too increased by your BAB. However, the trade off is that you will do more damage. The penalty to attack rolls only comes into play in the early game, but even then you can always turn it on or off. Dragon style allows you to add 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus towards your damage on your first unarmed strike within each given round. It's upgraded variant, dragon ferocity, further increases the strength bonus towards damage. Now, the most significant thing here to note is that both dragon style and power attack stack with each other; meaning these feats are what facilitates you to do big damage as an unarmed user. However, if you were going pure monk, you'll have full flurry of blows progression. Which means you will be able to dish out 8 attacks per round. Which means you don't need dragon style, you can instead go for pummeling style. Pummeling style basically totals the damage from all hits being made from flurry of blows before applying damage reduction. This means more damage per second on top of having the ability to perform more attacks per round. Furthermore, if you add hammer the gap + shattering punch(hammer the gap does indeed work with flurry of blows by the way, basically more damage.) to the mix, you further increase the potency of pummeling style. Consider this pure monk being able to eat through an adamantine golem on unfair(Adamantine golems are a hardy tough enemy, doubly so on unfair. Since unfair inflates their stats even more), but I digress:
qLNQA29.png

The next feats worth discussing is combat reflexes, outflank, flanking, and their interaction with dexterity. So, unlike pen and paper, the developers made some compromises to the flanking mechanic. In pen and paper you have to set up your units in order for flanking to occur. Flanking essentially gives you a +2 bonus to attack rolls against an enemy, which is grand. However, in the video game, you no longer need to set up for flanking. Instead, if one or two units are attacking the same target, then those units will automatically benefit from the flanking bonus(Here is the game's version of flanking), requiring little to no set up. So, why is that important? Well those compromises gave an indirect buff to attack of opportunity. Attacks of opportunity is basically free attacks that can be made against an enemy. Combat reflexes then adds another attack when AoO is provoked. The more targets that are provoked or threatened, the more AoOs you can perform based on each threatened target(However the number of AoOs you perform depends on your dexterity. Note, combat reflexes does not allow you multiple attacks against the target. Only gives you one attack. Certain feats however can allow you additional AoOs). Finally the icing on the cake, Outflank. Outflank is a god send. It adds more ridiculousness. If you and your allies are flanking the same target(Which is easily achieved due to the compromises on flanking) then you all gain a +4 attacking bonus. But the most important bit is that outflank gives you an additional AoO. However, you have to ensure that all of your melee combatants have these feats: Combat Reflexes and Outflank. Otherwise AoO stacking will not be very potent. To see it in play:
notice how as soon as a crit was made everyone got free AoOs against the target that is the power of AoO stacking
VaO58Ll.png

Another one worth mentioning is the feat called improved initiative. The feat compounded with dexterity allows you the opportunity to act right before your opponent does. I like to think of initiative as attack speed.

One last important thing to consider. Sword saint has the ability to qualify for fighter based feats, due to fighter training. Fighter Training: "Starting at level 7 a magus counts his magus level -3 as his fighter level for the purpose of qualifying for feats. If he has levels in fighter, these levels stack". In other words you get more power.

Alright, to summarize this section. Here is the best feats to take at each level:
Level 1: Traditional Monk(This subclass is picked specifically because of the bonus to will saves). Feats: Combat Reflexes/Power Attack. Skills: Mobility +1, Perception +1(Rest can be spent anywhere else you want. Most important is getting mobility to 3 in order to get dragon style.)

Level 2: Sword Saint. Chosen Weapon: Unarmed Strike. Skills: Mobility +1, Perception +1
Level 3: Sword Saint. Feats: Dragon Style. Skills: Mobility +1, Perception +1
Level 4: Sword Saint. First level up stat point goes directly to STR. Skills: Mobility +1, Perception +1. For Magus Arcana I suggest picking "Arcane Accuracy".
Level 5: Sword Saint. Feat: Dragon Ferocity. Skills: Mobility +1, Perception +1. Now that we have Dragon Ferocity you can spend your skill points in what ever manner you wish. I suggest continuing pumping perception.
Level 6: Sword Saint. Feat: Outflank (It is super important that your other melee combatants have this feat as well!)
Level 7: Sword Saint. Feat: Deflect Arrows (This is nice to have. Once per round this allows you to deflect an incoming arrow. Very handy.) Magus Arcana: Enduring Blade.
Level 8: Sword Saint. Second level up stat point goes into STR.
Level 9: Sword Saint. Feat: Weapon Specialization(It adds +2 bonus damage. Not a lot, but it does add up)
Level 10: Sword Saint.
Level 11: Sword Saint. Feats: Improved Critical: Unarmed Strike.
Level 12: Sword Saint. Third level up stat point goes into STR. Feats: Greater Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike.

Level 13: Sword Saint. Feats: Improved Initiative. Magus Arcana: Dimension Strike (At this point it doesn't matter which ones you pick. The main ones to pick are Enduring Blade, Arcane Accuracy, and Dimension Strike. Once those are picked the rest are inconsequential)
Level 14: Sword Saint.
Level 15: Sword Saint. Feats: Critical Focus.
Level 16: Sword Saint. Fourth level up stat point goes into STR.
Level 17: Sword Saint. Feats: Greater Weapon Specialization: Unarmed Strike,
Level 18: Sword Saint. Feats: Arcane Strike.
Level 19: Sword Saint. Feats: Penetrating Strike.
Level 20: Sword Saint. Feats: Last and final level up stat point goes into STR.

Spells(From order of importance):
1) Enlarge, Shield, True Strike.
2) Mirror Image, Blur, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace.
3) Haste, Displacement.
4) Stone Skin.
5) Vampiric Shadow.
6) True Seeing, Transformation.


Gameplay mechanics:
Tips to consider:
>Disable spell strike.
>Pick Arcane Strike and always make sure its activated. (It's like Power attack, you turn it on and leave it on, however sometimes it will turn off. So double check to see if its on.)
>Enchant fists with Arcane Weapon Enhancement. Do not enchant fists with other effects (No keen, flaming, holy, etc etc)
>Get a +4 to intelligence headband and as quickly as you can.
>Depending on what difficulty you chose, early game will be a crap shot. Rely on enlarge, and having someone attract all aggro. As soon as you gain mirror image you will be able to front line.
>Don't neglect the importance of enlarge. Enlarge further adds more strength which further stacks with power attack and dragon ferocity. If you have an alchemist(Jubilost also get this spell too) or wizard(Octavia can get this spell)they can get access to a spell called,"Legendary Proportions". This spell increases both your damage and stats to ludicrous amounts. Truly this is the buffs of buffs.
>Don't neglect Amulet of Mighty Fists. It adds even more damage to your unarmed strike.
>Perfect Strike, Sword Saint's abilities, maximums the damage you do with your chosen weapon.
>Perfect Critical, allows you to increase the crit multiplier when you crit.
>Get a rod of extend when you can. The rod allows your self buffs to last longer.
>Make sure you have a wizard and or cleric to accompany. Bark Skin and Shield of Faith are amazing buffs for the early game.
>Mage armor is another buff that will carry you through the early game until you come across armor of braces that give you a higher bonus than mage armor. You can buy mage armor potions for cheap, and they last for a whole hour.

Screenshots of the build in action:
gKQMipE.png
ezaHw8j.png

Conclusion:
This build will do even more damage if it had a belt that gave +8 to physical stats, legendary proportions, haste, and a +8 headband to mental stats.
Hmm. I know wonder if a sneak attack based monk would work.
 

Pink Eye

Monk
Patron
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
5,797
Location
Space Refrigerator
I'm very into cock and ball torture
The answer is shit. The damage it does is shit. But that was a dex based monk. Maybe a STR monk would fare better.
QQPv29U.png
 
Last edited:

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom