Morrowind is just a plain bad game

[LoPan]

This is why Excommunicator is one of my favorite fellow 2010 newfags*

I am now done with it, and quite embittered by it since I believe this entire post, if anyone reads it, will be considered by the reader a mere opinion--an impression, and not something which was considered and written for any particular reason.

TBH you don't really help your case by making statements such as these:

Sadly, this greater issue, this larger picture, was never indulged or investigated by anyone other than myself

All the ego-inflation aside, there have been countless discussions of why this or that works or doesn't work in Morrowind, why those of us who like it like it despite the things that don't work, both on this very forum and on others, and when it comes to this particular forum both before and after I joined (one of the Morrowind threads was IIRC one of the reasons I finally broke and joined). And the end result of the discussion with you was pretty much "you don't see in the game what we do"; which is fine, it doesn't mean we "won" and you "lost"; but it also makes it impossible to go further since, if you weren't seeing it after a dozen pages, another dozen wasn't gonna make any difference. All it would result in is a rehashing of the exact same arguments, and nobody wants that.

I always got the feeling you were more sad at yourself for not getting the enjoyment that others had, rather than at the game, or at DraQ. This post (specifically the bit about "there is nothing so remarkable and delightful as finding something out") makes me almost certain this is the case. Unfortunately, it just isn't a game you'll enjoy, or understand why it's enjoyed, no matter how much discussion there is. Just like I'll never learn to enjoy Battle Isle series no matter how much I'd like to.

* Do we even still count as newfags?

This angle of yours and Excommunicator is highly inconsiderate and reckless to the point of arrogance; through the written word we can only present so much, and we may make claims to our intentions, motivations and feelings but of course we can only claim they are so; however, to argue these claims is in essence to make 'nuh-uh' arguments since in writing there is no such thing as body language, tone, intonation, eye contact, and so on, to express the complex issue of human intentions, motivations, feelings, personality and general Habitus, and yet here I am being indicted as if a reliable impression can exist.

There is no appropriate way for me to respond, even if I were to present the implications of the accusations they would be held up as projection. I stated my viewpoint and perception on the matter and you make of it an indictment of my personal character and intention, and yet the post which you use as your staging-ground refutes all which you accuse me of.

The only thing I will iterate from my previous post is this:

"there is no way of exchanging information that does not demand an act of judgement."

This is very important to keep in mind at this moment and in the future, for it is a point on which all us fail with alarming insistence.

 

[Sceptic]

Why inconsiderate and reckless? I made it pretty clear I don't consider arguing over the game's merit to be a somebody wins/somebody loses proposition. I also gave a personal example in which I am in the same situation as you vs people who like another series that I just cannot get myself to like no matter how much a try. How's that me being judgemental? How's that even a fucking accusation?

Chill dude. Nobody's out to get you.

Also, disagree with your act of judgement thingie. Information is information; judgement comes after the fact. Which, by definition, means it doesn't necessarily have to be there.

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

I never finished Morrowind but I did start it three times and went pretty far each time in the main quest, but I still like it. The fact that there are not a lot of NPCs and that they don't give a shit about you seems rather in tune with the lore. It feels to me that in Morrowind you're lost in a fantasy equivalent of Corsica or Sicily: a small island where families, while being bound by a kind of xenophoby, still war between themselves for power and don't give a shit about the stranger in their midst.

 

[attackfighter]

* Do we even still count as newfags?

2010 newfag for life, nigga

The goal is to steal the key to Nerano Manor. The two possessors of a key are Ondres Nerano himself and his servant Sovor Trandel. The only way to get the key is to pick the pocket of Ondres (impossible at the current level, and this is the second thieves guild quest), kill Ondres or persuade Sovor. The persuasion of Sovor is unreasonably difficult, even if you do as I usually do an make an Imperial starting with 85 personality and speechcraft as a minor skill; the imperials special ability was the only thing that made it possible, another reason I tend to play imperials. If you kill Ondres, which is the opposite of the point of the thieves guild, you finish the quest but render it useless, Sugar Lips Habasi gives you shit for doing something as stupid as killing the person you're supposed to help them steal from but then everything goes on as normal even though you proved to be the opposite of what the thieves guild would want to associate with.

Few things here I'd like to point out... first of all, the pickpocketing formula in Morrowind is bugged. Download a fix and you will see pickpocketing become more viable. Secondly personality only effects initial disposition as far as I know - in order to improve your chances of successful dialogue actions you must improve your speech skill. Thirdly there were more ways you could have approached the quest, such as purchasing Telvanni Bug Musk or a charm spell to improve starting disposition even more, to the point where you could get the key without having to admire or bribe at all. So yeah this is basically a case of you not knowing your options and not having high enough stats for what you were attempting.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

there are people who hold experiences contrary to my own experiences of Morrowind, and this prompted the vital question of why this is

Why indeed ? Maybe because they are different from you ? Nah, that would be arrogance.

Since the question is "vital" I'll try to help : Humans are not Borgs, their taste vary from one individual (you may want to check the definition on this one) to another (gasp !). This means that they may occasionally be so daring as to respond differently to the same stimulus, hence why some enjoy what others don't. Bewildering I know, but that's not all, talking about it doesn't change shit, you won't "assimilate" their enjoyment (re gasp !).

Welcome to the human race.

Why ?

Because.

OK.

 

[Turjan]

This angle of yours and Excommunicator is highly inconsiderate and reckless to the point of arrogance; through the written word we can only present so much, and we may make claims to our intentions, motivations and feelings but of course we can only claim they are so; however, to argue these claims is in essence to make 'nuh-uh' arguments since in writing there is no such thing as body language, tone, intonation, eye contact, and so on, to express the complex issue of human intentions, motivations, feelings, personality and general Habitus, and yet here I am being indicted as if a reliable impression can exist.

There is no appropriate way for me to respond, even if I were to present the implications of the accusations they would be held up as projection. I stated my viewpoint and perception on the matter and you make of it an indictment of my personal character and intention, and yet the post which you use as your staging-ground refutes all which you accuse me of.

Just beautiful. Honestly, I have already quite some time ago come to the personal conclusion that this is some kind of elaborate trolling from your side, but the real beauty of it is that I can never be 100% sure. Whenever you see someone who likes one of the ES games, you lay out the flytrap, coated with lots of honey. Then an elaborate dance begins, with lots of words, complicated moves, but lastly completely circular and going nowhere. It's showy and flashy, an intricate tapestry of 50-cent words, interwoven with carefully veiled insults and pretended dismay. I usually throw the towel when we get to the "mere gallivanting" stage.

Anyway, keep up your good work. It's always nice to read .

 

[Turjan]

Turjan, the simple answer is no one should tolerate someone else telling them they can't have a certain hobby or interest. That assumes you aren't spending inordinate amounts of time on that hobby and many others on top of it, but this wasn't a point about how you fit playing a large-scale game into your already-filled schedule of hobbies and daily activities. It is about whether or not someone who has sufficient interest can find the time to play a game if they want to do so. Still, the quality of the game determines how worthwhile that playing time will be, and if nothing else, then surely the "crusades" of the likes of the Codex represent that attempt to instil that quality into a game where you neither regret the experience afterwards nor feel like you could get the same value from another activity. The ideals around here don't represent this "disposable media" aspect that the industry has forced upon games. If you have disposable media of the quality they offer then of course that time investment will struggle to match other activities that feel more productive. With greater substance and better ideals though, you give the games an inherent advantage in terms of how better you can justify the time investment they require.

In an ideal world, all of this is true. However, time management is always an issue in partnerships and families, and the issue at hand is not only whether I as the player see this as a worthwhile time investment, but also how the significant other sees this. My SO of many years didn't consider computer gaming or the fantasy genre as worthwhile activities for an adult, which is a relatively common attitude in my generation. So I could do this, but the comments sucked some of the enjoyment out of it. We had other stuff we liked doing together, though.

 

[Quetzacoatl]

If you disagree with me you are trolling!

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

I agree.

 

[Excommunicator]

I was going to write a proper response to you LoPan but you just don't come across as someone delighting in wanting to "find something out" as you claim. You seem to prefer to sit back and have other people argue at you until you feel ready to change your mind, which you aren't open to doing anyway.

Morrowind isn't a flawless game. I'm not surprised that you don't like it. I'm just surprised that after 19 pages you still want people to give you justifications for liking the game, as if people haven't spent the whole thread already doing that. What at this point in the discussion isn't clear to you?

 

[DraQ]

Hmm...

You know what guys?

 

[dibens]

Morrowind is shit and complete waste of everyone's time. Why are you necroing this?

 

[Broseph]

Morrowind is shit and complete waste of everyone's time. Why are you necroing this?

I always approve of DraQ's long, critical posts discussing the monocled intricacies of Morrowind.

 

[DraQ]

Morrowind is shit and complete waste of everyone's time. Why are you necroing this?

And yet you're LARPing it.

 

[dibens]

 

[Broseph]

I should post some MGSO screenshots of mine to set the mood.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Curious_Tongue]

You CAN leave Lorkhan's heart chamber with scrolls and magic, because I did and couldn't figure out what do next for a few days because I missed Azura's speech.

 

[aris]

Morrowind is shit and complete waste of everyone's time. Why are you necroing this?

I always approve of DraQ's long, critical posts discussing the monocled intricacies of Morrowind.

you get 1 for trying too hard.

 

[DraQ]

you get 1 for trying too hard.

gaudaost said:

 

[DeepOcean]

I've been replaying Morrowind lately and is really nice how at the beginning you are an unkown loser and all guilds send you in absolutely menial tasks, after being sent to buy soap for an old Telvanni wizard joints, you really feel like the chosen one. The worse of the houses is Redoran, they have the fame of being the poorest because they are Temple cocksuckers and that put them on a position of disadvantage, the motherfuckers don't pay for anything, while in other houses you get money they just expect you doing your duty and don't complain about money. Cauis Cosades send you to get information and the payment for the information is you doing doing shit for other people because is cheaper to send the recruit to do shit for other people than pay with hard cash, even the protagonist comment about this on the journal, you don't have fucking idea about what is happening so the first missions involve you talking with informants and people who know the locals better and Caius Cosades desguise is of a glorious Skooma addict loser. Ah, Morrowind, the time when your first mission didn't involved killing a fucking dragon, teenagers spoil everything.

 

[DraQ]

I've been replaying Morrowind lately and is really nice how at the beginning you are an unkown loser and all guilds send you in absolutely menial tasks, after being sent to buy soap for an old Telvanni wizard joints, you really feel like the chosen one. The worse of the houses is Redoran, they have the fame of being the poorest because they are Temple cocksuckers and that put them on a position of disadvantage, the motherfuckers don't pay for anything, while in other houses you get money they just expect you doing your duty and don't complain about money. Cauis Cosades send you to get information and the payment for the information is you doing doing shit for other people because is cheaper to send the recruit to do shit for other people than pay with hard cash, even the protagonist comment about this on the journal, you don't have fucking idea about what is happening so the first missions involve you talking with informants and people who know the locals better and Caius Cosades desguise is of a glorious Skooma addict loser. Ah, Morrowind, the time when your first mission didn't involved killing a fucking dragon, teenagers spoil everything.

You will be fisted many times, in many different apertures, good sir.

 

[hakuroshi]

What I liked in pre-Skyrim TES is that the protagonist was never a "chosen one", even Oblivion avoided it somehow. In Morrowind it even the main theme: "You are not Nerevarine. You might become one." With the whole cave of failed reincarnates...

 

[Giauz Ragnacock]

I've been replaying Morrowind lately and is really nice how at the beginning you are an unkown loser and all guilds send you in absolutely menial tasks, after being sent to buy soap for an old Telvanni wizard joints, you really feel like the chosen one. The worse of the houses is Redoran, they have the fame of being the poorest because they are Temple cocksuckers and that put them on a position of disadvantage, the motherfuckers don't pay for anything, while in other houses you get money they just expect you doing your duty and don't complain about money. Cauis Cosades send you to get information and the payment for the information is you doing doing shit for other people because is cheaper to send the recruit to do shit for other people than pay with hard cash, even the protagonist comment about this on the journal, you don't have fucking idea about what is happening so the first missions involve you talking with informants and people who know the locals better and Caius Cosades desguise is of a glorious Skooma addict loser. Ah, Morrowind, the time when your first mission didn't involved killing a fucking dragon, teenagers spoil everything.

I guess YMMV. For me, drop the chosen one and give me a dragon because what you said right there made voyeuring all day at Wal-Mart sound more fun.

 

[Mangoose]

I am the reason for

 

[Giauz Ragnacock]

I am the reason for

Liking the mundane stuff in DeepOcean 's post is the reason for FaceBook games. It's garbage someone conned you into thinking was gameplay to feed your inner masochist and OCD tendencies. YOU can enjoy that lame stuff but I am atheist to its allures.