Morrowind vs Skyrim objectively

[Dreaad]

I don't view character-creation-as-an-unspoken-difficulty-slider as a thing for which to strive.

Still have some stupid sawyerism indoctrination left over I see.

Half the fun of character creation is making optimal builds, planning things out so they work well, or watching in horror as you realize the PC/party you have built is a failure. Have you never re-started over and over to try and make that perfect mix of stats/class/skills, it's a game in an of itself. Nevermind I forgot you seem to hate fun and enjoy 'balance'.

 

[Roguey]

Still have some stupid sawyerism indoctrination left over I see.

Half the fun of character creation is making optimal builds, planning things out so they work well, or watching in horror as you realize the PC/party you have built is a failure. Have you never re-started over and over to try and make that perfect mix of stats/class/skills, it's a game in an of itself. Nevermind I forgot you seem to hate fun and enjoy 'balance'.

I enjoyed building my stealth archer in Skyrim a lot more than my stealth archer in Morrowind.

I never restart during an incomplete playthrough. I go with what looks useful for what I'm trying to accomplish and either finish or drop it.

 

[Shadenuat]

I don't view character-creation-as-an-unspoken-difficulty-slider as a thing for which to strive.

It's not about just character creation, it's about systems behavior inside the game. Things like stats affecting skills, and skills like armor skills affecting how armored is the character, or even encumbrance. They translate strategy into tactics, for example, when you can't paralyze enemy with regular paralyze because he has very high Willpower, but can drain his Strength to make him stop in place because he is wearing heavy armor, or destroy that armor, or create a weapon that destroys enemy armor because there is a spell in the game that can do it, and because Enchanting can place any spell onto weapon, you can do it, and so on, and so on.

 

[Carrion]

I didn't bother to reload though, except once near the beginning because I was only given two flame scrolls and I'd be damned if I'd lose one to a bad roll.

How exactly do you lose a scroll to a bad roll?

Additionally, when it comes to a game like this where there are dozens of scrolls and potions and magic properties, a list inventory is superior to a grid.

I've yet to see a single list inventory that wasn't irredeemable shit in a game where you end up with a million items. Morrowind's grid allows you to go through your stuff much quicker and with much less scrolling, especially since you can change its size and shape as you see fit. Can't understand how anyone could prefer Skyrim's abysmal inventory system to that.

 

[Roguey]

It's not about just character creation, it's about systems behavior inside the game. Things like stats affecting skills, and skills like armor skills affecting how armored is the character, or even encumbrance. They translate strategy into tactics, for example, when you can't paralyze enemy with regular paralyze because he has very high Willpower, but can drain his Strength to make him stop in place because he is wearing heavy armor, or destroy that armor, or create a weapon that destroys enemy armor because there is a spell in the game that can do it, and because Enchanting can place any spell onto weapon, you can do it, and so on, and so on.

I don't care too much about systems I never intend to engage in. Is Skyrim's magic system simplified compared to Morrowind's and also Oblivion's? Yeah. I don't use magic so this is an issue I never experience. I do know that having your own armor destroyed is no fun. Fortunately no such thing ever happened to me in Morrowind.

How exactly do you lose a scroll to a bad roll?

Early on, Caius sends you to a dungeon with an ancestral ghost and gives you a couple of flame scrolls and a fire sword to deal with it. I readied the spell, clicked, nothing happened. I did it again and it worked. So I reloaded until it worked the first time.

I've yet to see a single list inventory that wasn't irredeemable shit in a game where you end up with a million items. Morrowind's grid allows you to go through your stuff much quicker and with much less scrolling, especially since you can change its size and shape as you see fit. Can't understand how anyone could prefer Skyrim's abysmal inventory system to that.

Yeah, I can see a lot, but all I see are a bunch of colored bottles and colored scrolls that I have to mouse over individually to see what they actually are. With SkyUI I get a giant list and know exactly what it is I'm looking at along with important details. Windows Explorer with details>textless samey-looking icons

 

[Shadenuat]

I don't use magic so this is an issue I never experience.

Sorry but this is a fucking dumb argument. Also, you *did* use magic in Morrowind, I am almost sure of it - because it's magical system is universal around enchantments on items, scrolls and potions. Which is the beauty of it.

As for flame scroll, I'm not sure it's even possible to fail casting from scroll. Spells can fail due to low stamina (duh, strategy, durr), skill or enemies can resist them, but scrolls? Hmm.

 

[Roguey]

Sorry but this is a fucking dumb argument.

Nonsense. "Morrowind and Oblivion have better magic systems than Skryim, but I don't care because I don't play spellcasters" is the truth.

Also, you *did* use magic in Morrowind, I am almost sure of it - because it's magical system is universal around enchantments on items, scrolls and potions. Which is the beauty of it.

I used scrolls and potions, just like in Skyrim.

As for flame scroll, I'm not sure it's even possible to fail casting from scroll. Spells can fail due to low stamina (duh, strategy, durr), skill or enemies can resist them, but scrolls? Hmm.

It's what happened. Though that was the only time a scroll ever failed on me.

 

[Douchebag]

Roguey you make way too much sense.

The way I see it Bethesda really went their way to keep only the things that were purely fun to make the player comfortable, at the cost of immersion. Daggerfall was full on Immersion, whereas Skyrim is full on fun. It's about striking the right balance and I think Skyrim was not too far from it. Still had stupid things like the inability to kill important characters because they can't bother to code a way to make the game progress toward something different if the key NPCs die.

What Bethesda need now is to code more world evolution and inter-area spanning effects. Dragons were cool in that regard. Being able to feel important and have your own castle, titles toward the end. As long as you're not constantly pressed to make ''Dramatic'' choices every 5 minutes like the Witcher does, because that just gets tiring and is pointless mind torturing. Even occasional decision making can feel like a burden for maybe most players (''Do I choose the Norse or the Imperials, damn I don't know''), increasing their consequences wouldn't help with the pressure. I think the D&D approach has merit, by default you make the good side choices but if you really want to be edgy you make the evil side choices. At least you know where you're going.

 

[Akratus]

Grid based inventories über alles. Gass the haters.

 

[Dreaad]

Roguey you make way too much sense.

The way I see it Bethesda really went their way to keep only the things that were purely fun to make the player comfortable, at the cost of immersion. Daggerfall was full on Immersion, whereas Skyrim is full on fun. It's about striking the right balance and I think Skyrim was not too far from it. Still had stupid things like the inability to kill important characters because they can't bother to code a way to make the game progress toward something different if the key NPCs die.

What Bethesda need now is to code more world evolution and inter-area spanning effects. Dragons were cool in that regard. Being able to feel important and have your own castle, titles toward the end. As long as you're not constantly pressed to make ''Dramatic'' choices every 5 minutes like the Witcher does, because that just gets tiring and is pointless mind torturing. Even occasional decision making can feel like a burden for maybe most players (''Do I choose the Norse or the Imperials, damn I don't know''), increasing their consequences wouldn't help with the pressure. I think the D&D approach has merit, by default you make the good side choices but if you really want to be edgy you make the evil side choices. At least you know where you're going.

What the fuck am I reading.

 

[Douchebag]

Care to provide an elaborate reply instead of trying to hoard reputation points?

 

[Ellef]

Skyrim has more awesome buttons than Morrowind. Does Morrowind allow you to kill a dragon at lvl 1? Case closed.

I await half the people in this thread complaining about the decline in 10 years compared to the 'good old days of Skyrim'.

 

[Roguey]

Grid based inventories über alles. Gass the haters.

Are you telling me you prefer the bottom to the top, because that's Morrowind.

 

[abnaxus]

Skyrim has more awesome buttons than Morrowind. Does Morrowind allow you to kill a dragon at lvl 1? Case closed.

I await half the people in this thread complaining about the decline in 10 years compared to the 'good old days of Skyrim'.

Morrowind allows you to kill gods at level 1.

 

[Excidium II]

Are you telling me you prefer the bottom to the top, because that's Morrowind.

Thanks for fighting the good fight

 

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

Morrowind allows you to kill gods at level 1.

Skyrim lets you do it as a simple matter of course in the story. To progress you, as a mere noobie, *will* kill that dragon and move on. No tricks, that's the way it's meant to be.


What you're referencing from Morrowind is the result of many people researching how to warp inherent mechanics and completely break the power curve to beat the game in a fraction of the normal time. Doing it in a way that at no point gels with the narrative. People who appreciate Awesome Buttons would never have an inkling that such a thing is possible.

 

[abnaxus]

The Whiterun story dragon you kill with an entire group of guards and a Dunmer chick that can't be killed.

 

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

The Whiterun story dragon you kill with an entire group of guards and a Dunmer chick that can't be killed.

And everyone who has played Skyrim's main quest has done it, casual or otherwise with no exploits or gaming of the system necessary. Just playing as intended. Whereas your Morrowind example is only going to be accomplished by those who know the systems by heart, or have studied the scenario via walkthroughs and videos of other people doing it.

 

[Douchebag]

Fun : Skyrim > Morrowind = Oblivion > Daggerfall

Immersion : Daggerfall > Morrowind > Skyrim > Oblivion


And that's all there is to the debate folks. Whoever believes Elders Scrolls games were ever hard or played for the challenge is a liar, and self deluded elitist.

 

[Ellef]

Where's the fun in being hand fed super duper powers and level scaling and all the other hand held shit introduced after Morrowind?

Daggerfall and Morrowind are the only ones worth playing.

 

[Douchebag]

Because you prefer immersion. Skyrim is fun, undeniably more so than Morrowind and Daggerfall, let's not even go there but it wouldn't be one of the most played games of all times if it wasn't.

 

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

Skyrim is fun, undeniably more so than Morrowind and Daggerfall, let's not even go there

If you don't want to go there then don't say it. What's 'undeniable' to you is not true for others. Many think the modern Call of Duty games 'undeniably' more fun than Serious Sam or Duke Nukem 3D, while I think they've gone soft in the head.

 

[Douchebag]

while I think they've gone soft in the head.

Yeah you're so much better than these people.

 

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

Yeah you're so much better than these people.

Hey they're undeniably more fun, let's not even go there.

 

[Dreaad]

If you don't want to go there then don't say it. What's 'undeniable' to you is not true for others. Many think the modern Call of Duty games 'undeniably' more fun than Serious Sam or Duke Nukem 3D, while I think they've gone soft in the head.

Ignore the passive aggressive new fags, they don't even know what they don't know.