Morrowind vs Skyrim objectively

[belowmecoldhands]

Loved weapon degradation in every game that has featured it. It forces you to make the most of your arsenal, not just spam the same weapon. Plus I like the micromanagement aspect of it.

I'm starting to think a lot of these arguments in favor of Morrowind are just tied to this. It's management. Sometimes of skills/stats. Sometimes of slots. Sometimes of items you have in your inventory or elsewhere. Sometimes of when/who/where/what/etc. Which spell? Which conversation option? Which road or direction? Which quest? Which merchant?

Some players want a more action-oriented game where you don't have to manage as much. You just play. That's what's popular. But it's not just about action. It's about quick tactical choices. It's about danger. Players who wnat action still want story. It's not like if you throw out management there's no game. It can still be a game. it's just a different game.

See I like management in my games. I like items to have weight. I like having an inventory and needing to manage it. I like lots of skills I have to manage. I like lots of bloat. I guess it makes sense since I'm an explorefag.

But I like some action too.

I haven't yet put my finger on exactly how items having weight makes a game better for me. People always haved termed it micromanagement. But I find there's a lot more blur to the term. See, I think this term can apply to a lot of traditional RPG features. This is why console "RPGs" are removing those features.

I think traditional RPGs are just adventure games with additional management. Almost all of these RPG games started directly or indirectly as adventure games. As time went on, they added to the systems. Mainstream "RPGs" are now removing those features because micromanagement isn't popular. RPGs are making full circle and looking more like adventure games

I've been playing text-based adventure games lately from the 1980's. Maybe that expains my strange thoughts.

EDIT: Look I'm not saying RPG games are teh same as adventure games. They're just similar. RPGs are infinitely more replayable and intimate. But I DO think RPGs evolved from adventure games. Computer adventure games were just the best they could readily do in those days. As time went on they developed them further until they became RPGs.

Adventure games at heart are just greatly simplified RPGs. Or at least they're genetically an ancestor.

I know everybody on the codex will want to ban me for saying all this. Oh well. On this forum you can't have hte appearnace of both agreeing and disagreeing. See I like traditional RPGs. But me saying they're genetically tied to adventure games means I have to be banned. The codex is a wonderful place to learn and exchange ideas, but it has its own prejudcies like anyting.

 

[belowmecoldhands]

Variety automatically being good is a classic mistake that the modding community for basically every PC game I've played from Doom to Skyrim makes. There is nothing more off putting than seeing 5 different variations of the same thing, which could all be condensed in to 1 thing. In regards to acrobat vs levitation, just add a mana toggle to levitation.

Bullshit, whats the point of playing an rpg if there is only one way to get each thing done?
Why give a mage more than one damage spell? why introduce more than one king of damage? why put more than one weapon in the game?
Creating your own custom character, even when differences are little more than cosmetic is still fun, plus it opens the door to levels of complexity in your game.

Given the choice between more and less when it comes to options, ill usually take more.

It's all worth bolding. Great post. /applause

AngryEddy is describing either an adventure game or something RPG-lite, IMHO.

Different ways to do teh same thing is what enables different roles in RPGs. Example? A crafter rafts across the river. An athlete swims across. A magician levitates across. What other ways can we think to get across? Or maybe we can find a wya to not even need to go across? The more creative we're, the more roles we'll make. This makes RPGs replayable.

That's also what can kill RPGs. Having lots of paths to the same end can backfire if those paths are weak. You want these paths--or roles--deep enough to be interesting. So RPGs should only add new roles when previous ones are developed enough and only when the new roles can themselves be developed to a satisfying fullness.

 

[Makabb]

Tried Morrowind as I never played it and it's basicaly Skyrim with more tedium added. Sometimes less is more and that's why Skyrim is a better game.

 

[Akratus]

Im talking about slower leveling, im talking about the end result. Tho slower leveling is not surprising, as i already said before, leveling stealth makes the entire game take x5 as much time as it should to finish.

So what you're talking about is. .

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Hell, if anything stealth is the quickest way to finish a dungeon since Sneak raises pretty fast and sneak criticals will murderize everything that needs to be killed, especially if you join the Dark Brotherhood and nab their ridiculous gloves. Lhynn just snorted one too many trails of sweet, sweet skooma and isn't making sense anymore.

 

[Scruffy]

I haven't played Morrowind for years. My only half valid opinion then is: playing Morrowind I never felt like bored of the environment, while playing Skyrim I did, and quite fast.

 

[Lhynn]

Hell, if anything stealth is the quickest way to finish a dungeon since Sneak raises pretty fast and sneak criticals will murderize everything that needs to be killed, especially if you join the Dark Brotherhood and nab their ridiculous gloves. Lhynn just snorted one too many trails of sweet, sweet skooma and isn't making sense anymore.

Yes, because oneshotting everything while moving like a slug is much faster than oneshotting everything moving at normal speed. You are being amazingly retarded, also why would you sneak kill a dragon when you can kill a dragon with a single strike either way.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Muffled Movement perk lets you make less noise (can move faster), and Silence makes it so speed doesn't affect detection at all. I don't think you actually played this sort of character because nothing you say coincides with what happens in game. Check ur math again.

And yeah, if you're not smithing your weapons to 500% efficiency with fortify effects then it takes longer to fight a dude than skipping the fight entirely with an arrow or knife to the back.

 

[Taskityo]

I've actually been replaying Morrowind again, since every time I try to play their latest Elder Scrolls I can't bring myself to finish them with the dumbed down aspects that infuriate me. At least that leaves me Daggerfall and Morrowind - I've given up on any hope of them trying to bring back crucial RPG aspects to their games. At least the earlier ones don't attempt to insult my intelligence. Generally Morrowind just doesn't hold your hand while you play it - putting aside the so-so combat, just getting around or completing a quest requires you to think and follow directions in your Journal. Reading ain't that hard.

Vault Dweller's Oblivion review sums it up well enough.

 

[Lhynn]

Nope, power attack, dragon ded, power attack other dragon ded, move on. no alchemy, no enchancement, crafted draedric. The math is fine. Also as ive said, the game difficulty is trivial, and stealth is the slowest leveling skill after enchancement, unless you put a bucket on someones head and leave your character walking against a wall all night long its gonna take a big chunk of your playtime.

 

[MWaser]

I've actually been replaying Morrowind again, since every time I try to play their latest Elder Scrolls I can't bring myself to finish them with the dumbed down aspects that infuriate me. At least that leaves me Daggerfall and Morrowind - I've given up on any hope of them trying to bring back crucial RPG aspects to their games. At least the earlier ones don't attempt to insult my intelligence. Generally Morrowind just doesn't hold your hand while you play it - putting aside the so-so combat, just getting around or completing a quest requires you to think and follow directions in your Journal. Reading ain't that hard.

Vault Dweller's Oblivion review sums it up well enough.

Yeah, but Daggerfall is virtually unplayable.

 

[Lhynn]

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Without exploits the last sneak character i made naturally took like 60-70 hours to max it, by that time my other skills were far above that.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Some posts ago you were surprised that I played with vanilla mechanics for more than 10 minutes, so you're probably used to the modified growth rates of overhauls.

 

[Lhynn]

Some posts ago you were surprised that I played with vanilla mechanics for more than 10 minutes, so you're probably used to the modified growth rates of overhauls.

Doubt it, only mod i ever used to mess with skills has been skyre, and i didnt use it back then.
Stealth is a colossal waste of time, it really makes dungeons a lot longer than they need to be, and by the time you get the perk to oneshot one of the enemies without moving slowly, i can oneshot every enemy. Vanilla is trivially easy even at the highest difficulty if you keep your weapon skill, armor skill and crafting skill high. You are literally a walking god of destruction as long as your combat skills stay ahead of the curve, so i dont get why you would do your best to keep them behind it.

 

[Lhynn]

than it is to max out 1-handed/2-handed skills just from regular gameplay, without trainers.

Yup, especially if you swing once per enemy at the start. Much faster to build up damage if you use it constantly.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Morrowind/comments/3usz92/i_cant_find_caius_cosades/

Never gets old.

 

[Drax]

To be honest, the first time I played, I kept running around the town always arriving at the fucking temple. Took my stupid orientation sense a while to flip my mental map.

 

[Rhapsody'n Blue]

Wasn't Todd Howard the lead on Morrowind? What happened to that guy?

Games are made by teams, so I hate personifying all that is good or bad on the shoulders of one man, but post Morrowind Bethesda titles have a distinct shift in feel that I can't help but feel is being driven from the top.

 

[rado907]

Apart from the level-scaling and the randomized loot, two features that were obviously lame and annoying in Oblivion (and later to a lesser extent in Skyrim), the two changes from Morrowind to Oblivion (and later Skyrim) that I hated the most were the physical separation of the cities from the outside world, and the removal of the levitation spell.

I find seamless transitions between environments extremely impressive and immersive. Just think of the difference between GTA3-VC-SA, and GTAIV and GTAV. The latter titles had seamless transitions and looked much more believable and less cartoonish.
I also love flying around in these open-world games. I prefer FarCry4 over FarCry3, because FC4 has that mini-helicopter. I like the GTAs in which you can fly. (I remember SA had that jetpack lol.) And, of course, I like Morrowind, because in Morrowind you can levitate.

Remember that city with the spires in Morrowind? Man, that was good stuff. You take the strider or the ship there, and then you pop your levitation and fly to the top of the spire to talk to the head of your faction (or whatever). Pure gold.

I hope Bethesda brings back levitation and develops an engine which allows for seamless transitions.

 

[Roguey]

Wasn't Todd Howard the lead on Morrowind? What happened to that guy?

Games are made by teams, so I hate personifying all that is good or bad on the shoulders of one man, but post Morrowind Bethesda titles have a distinct shift in feel that I can't help but feel is being driven from the top.

Look up MrSmileyFaceDude's posts about Oblivion, everyone there is on board with making games for the broadest possible audience. Morrowind's sales and acclaim gave them a small taste of success and they wanted more.

 

[bloodlover]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Morrowind/comments/3usz92/i_cant_find_caius_cosades/ Never gets old.

Lmao the place is full of "Morrowind is too hard/Veteran Skyrim player, what to do in Morrowin" titles.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

The one guy who replied with "You can't follow simple instructions? " got downvoted. *carebearing intensifies*

To be honest, the first time I played, I kept running around the town always arriving at the fucking temple. Took my stupid orientation sense a while to flip my mental map.

Well, being confused at first is understandable, since you're just told he's "somewhere" in town. But you can always just check the houses one by one until you find the tavern cornerclub or his house. Those guys seem incapable of even that without a floating marker.

 

[Turjan]

Wasn't Todd Howard the lead on Morrowind? What happened to that guy?

Games are made by teams, so I hate personifying all that is good or bad on the shoulders of one man, but post Morrowind Bethesda titles have a distinct shift in feel that I can't help but feel is being driven from the top.

I guess they noticed that those years of effort they put into world-building in Morrowind was pretty much lost on most players, as hardly anyone noticed all that wonderful detail. You got tons of mods to make the game "more immersive", which were gobbled up by players, and neither the modders nor the players noticed how those basically destroyed the inner consistency of the game.

This went even so far as to the UESP Wiki. That was full of stupid things. I remember that the entry for the town of Caldera had a section where someone noticed that the word "caldera" actually has a meaning and then speculated over a paragraph, what the name might hint at. That the town was built because of a big mine in a freaking caldera wasn't among the considered reasons. Although it looks as if someone finally deleted that drivel.

 

[belowmecoldhands]

The one guy who replied with "You can't follow simple instructions? " got downvoted. *carebearing intensifies*

To be honest, the first time I played, I kept running around the town always arriving at the fucking temple. Took my stupid orientation sense a while to flip my mental map.

Well, being confused at first is understandable, since you're just told he's "somewhere" in town. But you can always just check the houses one by one until you find the tavern cornerclub or his house. Those guys seem incapable of even that without a floating marker.

Well if I recall right I just asked hte people. They give you a general direction. The quest I think gives a general direction too. Been a while since I've done it, but I don't remember it being a problem with me.

Then again I hate map markers in MMORPGs. That was one of the things made me stop playing EQ2. I had already not liked the mainstreaming in MMORPGs, so was feeling bad. And EQ2 was badly mudflated. Previously I didn't know there were map markers because I didn't notice. One day I got a quest and somehow looked at my map and ALL of the parts of the quest were marked. I can't remeber exactly how it occured. It felt like the last straw. I rage quit. Mainstreamers can have it.

 

[Drax]

Well, that was the shameful part, my running around was after I had talked to the locals and was trying to follow simple fucking instructions with all the spatial awareness of a blind retard turtle.