Morrowind was massive decline and should be considered as such

Daggerfall was so bad that I experienced save corruption when playing the game in early 2000s with latest patches installed.

I played Morrowind 1 or 2 years after the release, patched to the latest version at that time, and never encountered any game breaking bugs.

 

Duroy is arguing for the game that Daggerfall could have been, more than what the game actually was. Speaking things like "Daggerfall has 200+ skills", which is a fact, too bad that 180+ of them are there for practically nothing. "Daggerfall has 5 different taverns per city", which is also true, but it's a pity they are functionally identical and after visiting one, you visited them all. "Daggerfall has 50 factions" which is totally true, too bad they interact with you in exactly the same way in your procedurally generated content.

Daggerfall is a giant checklist of "great things in theory" that in practice have been implemented as generically as possible. Whoever played the first 2 hours of Daggerfall saw essentially everything the game will offer you in the next 30 hours. If you took the mechanics from Daggerfall and made a good implementation of them, in fact, maybe could have the ultimate RPG, the most vast and complete game ever made.

But that was a big "if" that never happened.

 

Here is the most honest review about Daggerfall rather than your review. Morrowind could have been so much more.

 

I gave you a decline rating, but not because I disagree with you, but because you're wasting time arguing with either a troll or a delusional /ideologically blinded asshat.

 

Fine , unsulting someone isn't mature either.Saying there are choices and concequences in Morrowind isn't delusional ? Saying that Morrowind is the perfect sequel is not ideology? Saying that Morrowind is full of interesting quests isn't ideology too?
Being a total fanboy of Morrowind and not admitting not a single flaw in it but instead shitting on daggerfall and ignoring his release date isn't trolling? And of course it's all about me, i'm obviously a Troll/dumbfuck/retard/assfuck/asshat/motherfucker/son of a bitch/ piece of shit /delusional idiot because I don't please the Almighty Codex that talks about decline everyday but plays and enjoys every decline games .What a joke!
And again I'm not delusional i admit that daggerfall is deeply flawed.
Hey let's shitting on Oblivion all other again. Morrowind is the perfect sequel no doubt about it .

 

Serious Question Time: Are Codexers when seen by outsiders look like that George guy to us? Because if so, then I somehow start to understand why people hate us.

 

He seems like a typical Codexer to me. It's not like "what you consider good was actually already declined" is an unique viewpoint here. I mean you come to this place and see people that consider Fallouts and Troika games pinnacle of RPGs, then come the dungeon crawler fans who claim that shifting focus from dungeon exploration to story was already a decline. Then you see old-school dungeon crawling fans who believe that later dungeon crawlers like Wizardry 6-8 were watered down compared to earlier Wizardry titles. This thread is actually not that outlandish.

 

I liked the design space Daggerfall opened up. Morrowind was about abandoning that space to go in the opposite direction and Oblivion demonstrates the suckitude of that choice.

It’s fair to identify Morrowind as the place where the wrong turn was taken even if it’s a better game than Oblivion.

 

If you REALLY hated Daggerfall it is


I disagree with, but I can understand combat-only fundamentalist codexer perspective, but it's difficult to understand perspective of someone who seems to seriously think that ocean of copy pasted content with a failed promise of something greater is a superior game to Morrowind.

 

Funny thing is that I don’t think it is but still think Morrowind is where things went wrong. They could have fulfilled that promise instead of retracting it.

 

Lol Daggerfall is like 80% randomly generated crap. Morrowind is the better games by miles.

 

I loved Daggerfall and was really excited at the idea that the next installment would be even greater (not talking about world size). I remember the day I finally played the game, all my enthusiasm was killed in a matter of hours. Pretty much like what the Daggerfall haters feel. The thing that really killed the game (as a Daggerfall sequel, not as a game per se) was the skill training.

Going from this :

to this :

and being able to train my armour skill up by 10 fucking points in a mere minute by repeatedly clicking on some dude's dialogue line was like a fucking bitchslap. To increase a skill that much in Daggerfall, with or without trainers, was a matter of days (and spare me the "hopping on place like a cocained rabbit" crap, not everyone powergames like a dick, some people play) and felt really rewarding. I can understand why people love Morrowind, and it's not a bad game by any means, but a step in the wrong direction it certainly is.

 

The time element matters in Daggerfall because of timed quests. Morrowind doesn't have timed quests (maybe it should) so that would just add a nuisance.

 

If you're refering to my post, I meant actual days, not in-game ones. Unless you played 10 hours a day (and probably even then) that's what it took to get a boost that great.

 

On the other hand, in Daggerfall you can train up all your magic skills from starting values to the cap by rapid-fire casting your entire mana pool on 5-mana spells that contain 3 different magic schools, and then travelling cautiously between cities.
The spell casting animation is so fast that this entire process takes like 20 minutes. (takes slightly longer now in Daggerfall Unity because it doesn't let you begin the casting of next spell while the previous one's jazz hands animation is still ongoing)

The skill training in Morrowind is pretty overpowered, but I think it was a pretty important balancing feature - somewhat evened out by the fact that there were no high level skill trainers available easily, and without a guide it's hard to find the actual master trainers to go all the way.

 

There are different perspectives for all issues. I have hard time understanding how people can consider Morrowind's ocean of copy pasted content superior to Gothic 2.

 

This boils down to :

which I don't, or hardly do. As I said, I play, I don't powergame like an imbecile. I have nothing against you personally, but god, am I tired of this same old tune.
Note that I could refrain from training in Morrowind and upgrade my skills through use, just like I could refrain from abusing Daggerfall system. But I somehow had a harder time doing that. Probably because it was still way more boring and took longer in Daggerfall than just clicking a couple of times on a dialogue line in Morrowind.

 

This is true guys and you know it.

 

In the days of Arena and Daggerfall, TES had a dream. A dream of creating a life-sized world of unlimited adventure. Pro-tip: look out the window and you'll see tons of copy pasted content.

Meanwhile, Morrowind is just another child's sandbox with 5 "large towns" of 10 houses and 20 inhabitants, same as 100 child's sandboxes before it and 200 after it. Fine, you won - you took the most revolutionary RPG series and castrated it into another Ultima. Why, then, you are still butthurt that Daggerfall even existed, 25 years down the line?

 

Yes.

You have every other RPG series for that. Can't tolerate even one that has it different?

 

News flash autist. The most downloaded mod for most games is a bug fix mod.

That is a cherry picked example you fucking goon. Man this is not a troll. You are just a dumbass.

 

So true. Now, whether it could have been achieved or not is open to debate. Most people think it couldn't, I think it could. Anyway, reality, profit, casuals and their consoles reared their ugly heads, so now we'll probably never know. Dreaming is a lost art.

 

The title of the thread is stupid, it would have been better with "Morrowind lost the dream of The Elder Scrolls serie" , I apologize for that. I can't change it now.

I'm sorry if i've been irritating, I'll stop to be a dumbass or a dumbfuck. But Thanks for opening my eyes.

That's why I talked about Morrowind, it's the first game of the elder scrolls serie released in a console. Thus naturally the ambition was reduced. And it would never come back again because of how Morrowind sold well on console.

True, anyway it doesn't excuse morrowind for being a buggy mess too

I'm sorry, i'll try to better next time.
In Morrowind, taverns aren't that populated, that was my point.

 

There is no debate that Morrowind dumbed down the most important part of the game

The dungeons

That's why Oblivion is better