Morrowind was massive decline and should be considered as such

"Skyrim is decline compared to Oblivion"
"Oblivion is decline compared to Morrowind"
"Morrowind is decline compared to Daggerfall"

"Daggerfall is decline compared to Arena" when?

 

Yeah like Morrowind.

 

And herein lies the problem. You're approaching DF having MW as a standard, and from that perspective DF's features surely seem superficial, and its content, repetitive.
But if you approach MW from a DF perspective, the opposite is true. DF is just a very different game in its aspirations; it's much closer to Darklands than it is to Morrowind. DF's focus isn't on hiking or overworld exploration, but on simulation and dungeon crawling. It pushes forward from Darklands, trying to make its simulations in-engine wherever possible (mostly in its city gameplay), but it still retains the extensive but abstracted simulation of Darklands as the baseline. From this perspective, all the supposed improvements in MW are just irrelevant fluff, while the massive streamlining of the simulations is more than obvious.

 

To me he looks like a newfag trying his hardest to appear the most stereotypical Codexer. Probably to fit in.

 

You had a spell to destroy dungeon walls in Arena

 

Absolutely. "I liked Morrowind more than Daggerfall" is a code for "I haven't been exposed to RPGs until 1999". No exceptions.

Wait till Kingdom Come fanboys hear that there was an earlier game set in XV century HRE and come whining how repetitive and empty it is. Hurr durr my handcrafted virtual square mile world!

 

You can levitate inside the dungeon walls in daggerfall, hard to beat that

 

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44900/an-essay-on-man-epistle-ii

https://www.theotherpages.org/poems/pope-i.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_a_piece_of_work_is_a_man

http://shakespeare.mit.edu/hamlet/hamlet.2.2.html

https://utorontopress.com/us/books/by-series/collected-works-of-erasmus

 

You wanted citations, I'm giving you citations.

Need to get all you illiterates cultured somehow.

 

Setting and hand placed content has more value than half the the things you mentioned.

 

Decline is the natural state of the universe. Entropy ensures that everything will gradually crumble and disintegrate, and the games will increasingly dissolve and decline to heat death of the gaming industry. There is no escape, there is nothing to do, except to remember the glorious days of past ages that will never return, while we orbit the black hole of releases that are just remnants of an almost lost memory. And our only comfort is to know that we saw the brilliance of the peak, to then, witness the darkness of the end.

The fun may be momentary, but only doom is eternal.

(Which in turn is also a decline from Doom 2016, which reinforces the point).

 

See, I think it's not entirely fair to claim that Elder Scrolls "stopped being Elder Scrolls" with Morrowind.

Not because the arguments for the differences are wrong, it's true that Morrowind abandoned many of the design principles that existed in Daggerfall, however I don't think the claim of "streamlining" and "casualization" explains the whole story.
Compactness, planning, and end goal are very important aspects of any project.

Daggerfall, when compared to Arena, is an endlessly better game. Arena is a really janky dungeon Crawler, technically shitty, with a world that is functionally unusable (just empty terrain and you can't actually get anywhere), while Daggerfall actually gives off a legitimate feel of the world somewhat existing in that large scope.

However, just how many of these aspects are vital here for the "essence" of the Elder Scrolls? As far as I can tell, the major design principle change between Daggerfall and Morrowind made it so that Morrowind no longer tried to include a gigantic world that tried to simulate some kind of ongoing nation reality, and instead went on to create an intentionally more static and thus more easily managable contained game world.

I can understand, for the hardcore role-playing autists, that there is some nerd potential in expanding upon that aspect of extremely detailed intertwining faction politics with coded in dynamics that would influence the game world or events. Thing is, in Daggerfall, none of the factions allying/warring, their dynamics, nothing mattered. And to be fair, it would have taken countless more years and likely better technology to try and make it actually more meaningful. Think Star Citizen tier of extreme complexity, maybe not to the absurd degree, but it's an insane amount to ask for, an essential fantasy reality simulation - I think the best currently existing example of such attempt existing would be Dwarf Fortress, which actually does have its own generated history, with factions being created, falling, warring, expanding, and legends being made. That, in proper RPG form, could be truly admirable, but also an extremely ambitious project - the "dream", to speak of. And I don't think it's fair to equate them with the "essence of Elder Scrolls" that the abandoning thereof made the series not the same. It's the essence of something, some ambitious project, but it's pretty wild to claim that one's particular expectations with it were the entire series goal, since not just a single person worked on the massive project that was Daggerfall to begin with.

But let's actually look at the OP for a second, shall we?

I won't bother mentioning every single point separately (I believe someone in this thread already did it, but memory fails me), but note that a bunch of points mentioned are pretty arbitrary, and more generally tied to game design. Only some of them are directly tied to this aforementioned "dream" of the Elder Scroll series that was supposedly lost with Morrowind.

Now, let's look at OP's some more modern posts in this same thread:

The "clickbaity title" doesn't even half answer the actual contents of the original post nor the level of the vitriol with which the OP originally responded.

In essence, what I am trying to say is that one of the mods should award George Duroy his long-desired Shitposter title at this point. Because he certainly deserves it.

 

Daggerfall actually was genuine incline, strange as it may seem.

Edit:

That is a fair point, though. Still, the extra complexity in dungeons do make up for this, I think.

 

They are all shit. It is sad that you guys have never played EverQuest. It feels like when I see homeless children who have never tasted good healthy food, never been educated, never had dental care, etc. They missed out on so much and they don't even know what they are missing, all they know is life on the street. All you guys know is Elder Scrolls Sad. I wish I could gofund you guys to make myself feel better.

 

Why do you qualify Hardcore RPG fans autistic ? And RPGs always are and were for nerds.Wizardry was made by nerds for nerds. Have you a problem with that?
Besides RPGs declined because they tried to attract non-nerd players.
If they don't conform with your opinions, fine ignore them but calling them " austitic" is really pathetic.

At first , you said that the elder scrolls serie hasn't stopped to be the elder scrolls with morrowind but then you said that morrowind abandoned many of the design principles of Daggerfall. I'm sorry but everyone here qualifies Fallout 3 not a real fallout game because it abandonned some design principles of Fallout 1.

Making this big long post just because you want a shitposter tag in my profile adds nothing interesting to the debate,and so your post. Furthermore, Calling Hardcore RPG fans "Autistic" should reward your profile with a shitposter tag instead of me. And again if you dissagree with me fine there is nothing wrong with that, just put me in the ignore list (or rate all of my posts retarded )and move on.

 

Oh, no, by no means, don't get me wrong. Compared to how many people use the term, I don't consider "autism" in this case to actually be meant as an insult, but rather as a descriptive term for a certain kind of obsessive quality.
Sure, it's not medically nor terminologically accurate, but I've become quite partial to the definition.

I consider myself a valid role-playing autist myself, in contrast to the definition of a casual normiefag.

 

Yeah, but the natural order sucks.

 

I dont think RPG codext is THAT crazy...yet

 

Well, we do have a party of autists who believe that Wizardry 1-3 are superior to Wizardry 6-8, so you never know...

 

this thread is still going?

 

Trivium:

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/674

http://gutenberg.org/ebooks/23700

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2383

Quadrivium:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/135060.Hadji_Murad

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12505.The_Idiot

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/19117.Fathers_and_Sons

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/27822.Eugene_Onegin

 

I can understand your reasoning behind the rest, but Onegin? Really? The book's a masterpiece of versification, but it's not terribly deep.

 

That's the problem with the would-be greats of this age. They're so deep they've lost sight of the Sun.

Onegin is the national epic of Russia for a reason, and its answer to the original question is a uniquely savvy one.

 

De gustibus non est disputandum

One interesting thing about Onegin is that it can be read like a MGTOW tract, but with the sexes reversed.

 

I'll solve it for all of you right here.
Truth is?
Elder Scrolls sucked from day fucking one and there's nothing really redeeming about any of them from an RPG aspect.
They're open world games masquareding as RPGs.
There.